New Boiler Advice Please

karl999

Hi .. my boiler is kaput unfortunately and I have a guy from SSE coming tomorrow to chat to me about it .. I'm thinking king of going the whole gig and get a smart system .. this is the details of the quote ::

Quotation as follows subject to a Technical Survey
Boiler only with Entry level controls (non SEAI Grant)
• Disconnect existing gas boiler,
• Supply and Install 15 KW Ideal Logic High Efficiency System Boiler (Built in Pump and Expansion vessel)
• Install Climote Remote Hub (Allows heating to operate remotely from smart phone) OR Install 24 hr 5/2 Day Programmer
• Install Room Thermostat
• Install MagnaClean magnetic filter (Protects and extends the operational life of the boiler)
• Add Endo Therm additive solution (Radiators heat up quicker and stay hotter longer)
• Carry out Chemical Flush (Increases the efficiency of your central heating system)
• Supply Carbon Monoxide Alarm
• 10 year Manufactures Boiler warranty (Subject to yearly service from SSE Energy Services)
• First year boiler service free
• Fill and Balance system

All fittings
Labour- plumbing & electrical
PRICE: €2600 incl Vat @13.5%
Less € 400 Airtricity Discount
Cost Less Discount €2200
DEPOSIT Amount: €400
Balance on completion

(SEAI Grant) Subject to grant approval
• Disconnect existing gas boiler,
• Supply and Install 15 KW Ideal Logic High Efficiency Boiler (Built in Pump and Expansion vessel)
• Install Central Heating and Hot Water Zone Control to allow for independent operation,
• Install 5 Thermostatic Radiator valves
• Install Room Thermostat
• Install Cylinder Thermostat
• Install Climote Remote Hub (Allows heating and hot water to operate remotely from smart phone) OR Install 24 hr 5/2 Day Programmer
• Install MagnaClean magnetic filter (Protects and extends the operational life of the boiler)
• Add Endo Therm additive solution ( Radiators heat up quicker and stay hotter longer)
• Carry out Chemical Flush (Increases the efficiency of your central heating system)
• Supply Carbon Monoxide Alarm
• 10 year Manufactures Boiler warranty (Subject to yearly service from SSE Energy Services)
• First year boiler service free
• Fill and Balance system
• BER Cert
• To include upgrade of Electrical Earth Bonding

All fittings
Labour- plumbing & electrical
PRICE: €4000 incl Vat @13.5%
Less € 750 SEAI Grant
Less € 400 Airtricity Discount
Cost Less Grant and Discount €2850
DEPOSIT Amount: € 600
Balance on completion

Wondering what you guys think of the prices quoted in relation to what I'm getting .. Im Thinking of going for the second more expensive option ..

Also from what I've read albeit in UK forums .. A 15 kw boiler seems a little underpowered for an average 3 bedroom semi detached house with 3 bathrooms that I have .. 7 rads and approx 1150 sq foot house .. uk forums say you should have minimum 24 kw boiler for average 3 bedroom house
Also if i build a house extension I might need the extra kw I guess

And advice greatly appreciated
Many Thanks
Karl

MaudL

Hey Karl,

I just had my boiler replaced today so did a lot of research. I'm in an apartment in county Dublin and fitted an 18kw so for your house 15kw definitely will not be enough, 24kw sounds much safer...

As for prices, every situation is slightly different, the quotes you get will be amended after the home visit but they all come out to you for free to do that, without obligation.

The climote thing I didn't get, I don't really need it for my particular case.

Here's what I got done, for which I paid 3049 euro (and will get 750 back from the SEAI grant):

High Efficiency Ideal Logic Boiler
New Flue & Flue Extensions
Condense Breakout
Magna Clean Pro Filter
Chemical Cleanser & Inhibitor
Pipes & Fittings
7 Year Parts & Labour Warranty
RGII Certificate of Compliance
24h 7 Day Programmer & APT Timeclock
Room Thermostat & Cylinder Thermostat
Free Carbon Monoxide Alarm
2 Zone Heating Controls
4 Thermostatic Radiator Valves
BER Assessment (Required For Grant)

I would definitely recommend the company I hired, they were competitive, guided me through the grant application process, lined up the installer and BER assessor for me. I pretty much had nothing to do...
PM me if you want their name and contact info.

Good luck!

karl999

Hi Maudl
Many thanks for the advice.. I'm definitely going to ask for a bigger KW boiler alright .. think I'll go with SSE as it's all set to go.. No heating last 2 weeks .. so enough is enough .. there pretty much giving me all you hot fitted .. Getting a new hot press tank too as the old copper one is bay coroded
. Getting a larger stainless steel one .. I believe it heats quicker and holds the heat for longer too
Hope your happy with all you had done anyway
Thanks again and best of luck
Karl

MaudL wrote: »

Hey Karl,

I just had my boiler replaced today so did a lot of research. I'm in an apartment in county Dublin and fitted an 18kw so for your house 15kw definitely will not be enough, 24kw sounds much safer...

As for prices, every situation is slightly different, the quotes you get will be amended after the home visit but they all come out to you for free to do that, without obligation.

The climote thing I didn't get, I don't really need it for my particular case.

Here's what I got done, for which I paid 3049 euro (and will get 750 back from the SEAI grant):

High Efficiency Ideal Logic Boiler
New Flue & Flue Extensions
Condense Breakout
Magna Clean Pro Filter
Chemical Cleanser & Inhibitor
Pipes & Fittings
7 Year Parts & Labour Warranty
RGII Certificate of Compliance
24h 7 Day Programmer & APT Timeclock
Room Thermostat & Cylinder Thermostat
Free Carbon Monoxide Alarm
2 Zone Heating Controls
4 Thermostatic Radiator Valves
BER Assessment (Required For Grant)

I would definitely recommend the company I hired, they were competitive, guided me through the grant application process, lined up the installer and BER assessor for me. I pretty much had nothing to do...
PM me if you want their name and contact info.

Good luck!

MaudL

I hear ya! Until yesterday, we had been without heat or hot water for 10 days, ugh

Very best of luck!

Dtp1979

Unless you’re living in an old house built in the 1950’s then 15kw is way more than you need for 7 rads. I’ve my own boiler set to 8kw. Oversizing a condensing boiler might sound like a good idea but in fact it makes the boiler and system less efficient.
I personally think all remote heating like climote and similar are gimmicks that people don’t need. A decent programmable room stat will do just fine.
Endotherm is rubbish. It does not make water heat faster or stay hotter for longer. Don’t believe everything the sales pitch is offering.
Neither quote is offering you a power flush. A ‘chemical cleanse’ is complete rubbish and a complete waste of time.

AntiVirus

Don't bother with the grant option, just get the boiler installed. You can get wifi or timer's installed after for a fraction of the price so ask yourself what are you really getting?

The full price is 4,000 compared to 2,600 without the time control. They're charging an extra 1,400 euros to install that?!

I'm getting my boiler replaced with a Vokera vision 25s (25kw) for 1,800 and I'll keep the 700 euro grant to update the time control after.

Dtp1979

AntiVirus wrote: »

Don't bother with the grant option, just get the boiler installed. You can get wifi or timer's installed after for a fraction of the price so ask yourself what are you really getting?

The full price is 4,000 compared to 2,600 without the time control. They're charging an extra 1,400 euros to install that?!

I'm getting my boiler replaced with a Vokera vision 25s (25kw) for 1,800 and I'll keep the 700 euro grant to update the time control after.

You’re not updating the controller only. Often the pipework needs to be upgraded, zone valves installed, room stats, trvs, auto bypass etc.

rightjob!

AntiVirus wrote: »

Don't bother with the grant option, just get the boiler installed. You can get wifi or timer's installed after for a fraction of the price so ask yourself what are you really getting?

The full price is 4,000 compared to 2,600 without the time control. They're charging an extra 1,400 euros to install that?!

I'm getting my boiler replaced with a Vokera vision 25s (25kw) for 1,800 and I'll keep the 700 euro grant to update the time control after.

I would add your 700 and look for a better boiler

AntiVirus

Dtp1979 wrote: »

You’re not updating the controller only. Often the pipework needs to be upgraded, zone valves installed, room stats, trvs, auto bypass etc.

Are you saying they are going to to do all that? How many zones will they do for this price? 2 3 4 5 zones all for the same price? Where does it say they will do any of that? I couldn't see any details about that. So can you show me anywhere it says they will upgrade your pipes for free if needed and add in up to x number of zones for free too, thanks

Also the OP didn't even mention that he wanted any of that. The fact that he listed 2 options proves that he's not to bothered with that.

If he wants a timer to just turn his heating on and off or schedule times for it to come on and off there's far cheap ways to do it.

AntiVirus

rightjob! wrote: »

I would add your 700 and look for a better boiler

Don't worry about my boiler and you don't get to spend the grant on a boiler upgrade anway :-D

Also the 15kw is to small for the house!

rightjob!

AntiVirus wrote: »

Are you saying they are going to to do all that? How many zones will they do for this price? 2 3 4 5 zones all for the same price? Where does it say they will do any of that? I couldn't see any details about that. So can you show me anywhere it says they will upgrade your pipes for free if needed and add in up to x number of zones for free too, thanks

Also the OP didn't even mention that he wanted any of that. The fact that he listed 2 options proves that he's not to bothered with that.

If he wants a timer to just turn his heating on and off or schedule times for it to come on and off there's far cheap ways to do it.

To bring the system to the standard for the grant the system must have 50% or more of the house fitted with trvs,an immersion timer,lagging jacket if not an insulated cylinder,hot water zoned and heating zoned,a cylinder thermostat,a room thermostat,a 2 channel timeclock and bonding cable upgraded as a minimum.

Also the OP has said in his quotation that there is a cylinder thermostat,room thermostat and 2 motorised valves which means it is 2 zones fitted.

So it is more than just a on/off timer with the grant.

Dtp1979

AntiVirus wrote: »

Don't worry about my boiler and you don't get to spend the grant on a boiler upgrade anway :-D

Also the 15kw is to small for the house!

15kw is too much unless the op is living in s poorly insulated house with 7 radiators

AntiVirus

rightjob! wrote: »

To bring the system to the standard for the grant the system must have 50% or more of the house fitted with trvs,an immersion timer,lagging jacket if not an insulated cylinder,hot water zoned and heating zoned,a cylinder thermostat,a room thermostat,a 2 channel timeclock and bonding cable upgraded as a minimum.

Also the OP has said in his quotation that there is a cylinder thermostat,room thermostat and 2 motorised valves which means it is 2 zones fitted.

So it is more than just a on/off timer with the grant.

Lagging Jacket :-D So to qualify for a grant you need to have a lagging jacket or you won't get it. Will you post up the link on the SEAI website to where this is listed as a requirement?

You just listed a few bits and pieces to try and make it sound like he's getting loads of value for money. Cable and 2 channel timeclock :pac:

It's not really any of my business if he wants to get it installed or not, I personally think that the cost of installing the boiler to get the grant is hiked up way to high for what you get when compared to the actual boiler itself. :-)

AntiVirus

Dtp1979 wrote: »

15kw is too much unless the op is living in s poorly insulated house with 7 radiators

I'm replacing a Vokera 14se which couldn't heat all 8 radiators properly in my house. Not knowing the size of his radiators you can't say that it will heat up all of his radiators properly. As he himself has found out almost everyone is telling him or other people that 15kw is not enough

Heating up 7 radiators has nothing to do with the insulation of a house, thats all to do with the power of your boiler.

rightjob!

AntiVirus wrote: »

Lagging Jacket :-D So to qualify for a grant you need to have a lagging jacket or you won't get it. Will you post up the link on the SEAI website to where this is listed as a requirement?

You just listed a few bits and pieces to try and make it sound like he's getting loads of value for money. Cable and 2 channel timeclock :pac:

It's not really any of my business if he wants to get it installed or not, I personally think that the cost of installing the boiler to get the grant is hiked up way to high for what you get when compared to the actual boiler itself. :-)

Yes if a non insulated cylinder has no lagging jacket it needs one fitted to bring it to standard..

I didn't just list some bits and pieces i listed the requirements that are made by SEAI to qualify for the grant.
Its more than a bit of cable and a timeclock as i listed above.

The homeowner ends up with a much more efficent system than a boiler and a time clock.

AntiVirus

rightjob! wrote: »

Yes if a non insulated cylinder has no lagging jacket it needs one fitted to bring it to standard..

I didn't just list some bits and pieces i listed the requirements that are made by SEAI to qualify for the grant.
Its more than a bit of cable and a timeclock as i listed above.

The homeowner ends up with a much more efficent system than a boiler and a time clock.

It's really not any more efficient than a boiler and a time clock, that all comes down to how you operate either of the 2 system. You can still have only one radiator on in both systems if you want :-)

Let's just agree to disagree, as long as the OP is happy with what he gets, I'm happy with that :-)

agusta

AntiVirus wrote: »

It's really not any more efficient than a boiler and a time clock, that all comes down to how you operate either of the 2 system. You can still have only one radiator on in both systems if you want :-)

Let's just agree to disagree, as long as the OP is happy with what he gets, I'm happy with that :-)

Not quite,Even if your are turning off the cylinder and rads manually you cant control the temperature.
Boiler interlock- this connects the heating system controls with your boiler to ensure it only operates when required.it ensures the boiler is not firing when there is no request for heat.
You can preset the heat demand required and then not have to worry about it.This is far more efficient

AntiVirus

AntiVirus wrote: »

I'm replacing a Vokera 14se which couldn't heat all 8 radiators properly in my house. Not knowing the size of his radiators you can't say that it will heat up all of his radiators properly. As he himself has found out almost everyone is telling him or other people that 15kw is not enough

Heating up 7 radiators has nothing to do with the insulation of a house, thats all to do with the power of your boiler.

You’d be incorrect there.

Also irrespective of the price a installation that meets SEAI standards is better than those that don’t meet the given standard and if your worried about grants then keep the standard required but don’t involve the grants scheme, the basic standard required by the SEAI have been around for over 30 years and would be classed as good working practice.

Dtp1979

AntiVirus wrote: »

I'm replacing a Vokera 14se which couldn't heat all 8 radiators properly in my house. Not knowing the size of his radiators you can't say that it will heat up all of his radiators properly. As he himself has found out almost everyone is telling him or other people that 15kw is not enough

Heating up 7 radiators has nothing to do with the insulation of a house, thats all to do with the power of your boiler.

Unless your own radiators were 2metre doubles. I’m basing my calculations on your standard estate house built in the last 15-20 years.
Your problem was probably poor circulation, which was solved when your installers powerflushed the system before the new boiler went in.