Charger on street outside house

dpboard

Has anyone here ever been able to get a charging point installed on the street outside their house? I own a terraced house in Dublin which does not have a driveway but there is residents' permit parking on the road. I would like an EV, but it seems there are difficulties for people who don't own off-street parking.

(N.B. I do have a garage in the back garden, but the turn into it from the laneway is very tight and can only realistically be done with a very small car, which would limit my EV choices to something like a VW E-up).

Vronsky

You don't own the public road outside your house so you cannot install a private kerbside charger.

Until this issue is solved, it will serve as a large barrier to EV adoption. Its a shame really since its cars in cities that gain the most from going electric.

liamog

Vronsky wrote: »

You don't own the public road outside your house so you cannot install a private kerbside charger.

Until this issue is solved, it will serve as a large barrier to EV adoption. Its a shame really since its cars in cities that gain the most from going electric.

That's not strictly true.
You may be able to install a private kerbside charger with the agreement of the council. Just as any private entity (such as ESB eCars) can install a private charger (usable only by eCars card holders).

At the very least it may be worth discussing with a local councillor. Councils will not yet have a policy on this.

I wouldn't hold my breath for success, but I seem to remember there was at least one person who was able to install on a public street. Maybe someone else has the details.
If there is permit parking for residents, it may be something that you can work as a community group to install a shared charging spot.

unkel

I wouldn't buy an EV until I was certain that I could have a home charger at this stage. EV uptake will go up and the public charging system is getting worse before it will get better and it is already over used.

Gumbo

liamog wrote: »

That's not strictly true.
You may be able to install a private kerbside charger with the agreement of the council. Just as any private entity (such as ESB eCars) can install a private charger (usable only by eCars card holders).

At the very least it may be worth discussing with a local councillor. Councils will not yet have a policy on this.

I wouldn't hold my breath for success, but I seem to remember there was at least one person who was able to install on a public street. Maybe someone else has the details.
If there is permit parking for residents, it may be something that you can work as a community group to install a shared charging spot.

There is some sort of policy, but it only covers the large energy suppliers.
SI219 of 2013

I have lodged Section 5 Applications with regards to erecting these poles, and each one requires Planning Permission if been sought by a private dwelling.

Basically, as above, you would have to get permission from the council to erect the pole on their land, then there will be utilities, services etc underground that has to be considered, then liability if anything happens to a member of the public, then the matter of ownership of the pole going into the future.

For these reasons, is why you only see it been done in Private Management Company estates where the Council has not taken in charge the public areas yet.

dpboard

Thanks all. Is running a cable from my house to the car, across the pavement, an option? I assume for safety one would have to use an outdoor cable mat/ramp/cover. I understand this is fine and legal in the UK, but not sure of the situation in Ireland.

Tenigate

An EV charging point outside your house would be all well and good, until your neighbour or other strangers decide to park in that spot.

Shefwedfan

dpboard wrote: »

Thanks all. Is running a cable from my house to the car, across the pavement, an option? I assume for safety one would have to use an outdoor cable mat/ramp/cover. I understand this is fine and legal in the UK, but not sure of the situation in Ireland.

Your one trip away from a couple of k out of pocket

With the amount of wasters in this country looking for a quick easy buck I would not risk it....

What about the turn into the back laneway? is it the angle the issue or width?

ELM327

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Your one trip away from a couple of k out of pocket

With the amount of wasters in this country looking for a quick easy buck I would not risk it....

What about the turn into the back laneway? is it the angle the issue or width?

If it is adequately warned (covered with cable cover in hard plastic covered in black and yellow warning and checkerplate) I can't see any PI claim being successful.
Sure as it is there are cables on the path going to the streetside SCP.

Teyla Emmagan

I doubt it would be installed just for your use. It would have to be available to non residents too.

mordeith

ELM327 wrote: »

If it is adequately warned (covered with cable cover in hard plastic covered in black and yellow warning and checkerplate) I can't see any PI claim being successful.
Sure as it is there are cables on the path going to the streetside SCP.

Claim might not be successful but guaranteed you'd end up getting a solicitors from someone.

Shefwedfan

ELM327 wrote: »

If it is adequately warned (covered with cable cover in hard plastic covered in black and yellow warning and checkerplate) I can't see any PI claim being successful.
Sure as it is there are cables on the path going to the streetside SCP.

Recently a woman got 20k for banging her knee at a table when sitting down

Thats the sort of crazy sh*t our court systems let happen

hatrack

I’m in the exact same position as the OP (street parking only, lane behind house but not enough room to turn in). Plan on changing my car in January 2019 and would like to go electric.

I’ve been thinking about installing a charger at the back of the house and leaving the car parked in the laneway while charging. No one ever drives down it so don’t think it would cause too many issues. Not ideal but I expect to have a charger in work so would only need the home charger as a back up.

Would be great to see Dublin City Council come out and take a position or offer guidance on what residents could do. Ideally they’d allow residents to install a charger on the curb outside their homes (at their own cost). Either that or get more public chargers installed, I live in Dublin 6 and there is no charger between the one at Chelmsford Road in Ranealgh (where parking is prohibited at rush hour anyway) and the one at Harold’s Cross. There’s a huge volume of houses in the Ranelagh / Rathmines area with no street parking so it’s frustrating that there are so few charging options.

Sleeper12

Vronsky wrote:

Until this issue is solved, it will serve as a large barrier to EV adoption. Its a shame really since its cars in cities that gain the most from going electric.

I've thought about this alot myself. There are still housing units being built with no thought about EV charging. It does not make sense. Eventually almost all private vehicles will be EV. Not taking this into account at planning stage doesn't make sense imo.

Will it be down to ESB network to install 10s of thousands of charging stations on every street & then charge a fee per hour of charging? Unless super fast charging comes on stream I can't think of another way out

I'm an EV owner myself and I have a driveway so when the time is right I'm ready to go.

unkel

hatrack wrote: »

I’ve been thinking about installing a charger at the back of the house and leaving the car parked in the laneway while charging. No one ever drives down it so don’t think it would cause too many issues. Not ideal

Sounds good to me, provided you can legally park in the laneway.

Sleeper12 wrote: »

Will it be down to ESB network to install 10s of thousands of charging stations on every street & then charge a fee per hour of charging? Unless super fast charging comes on stream I can't think of another way out

Nah that will never happen. The future model is slow destination charging at your own privately owned parking or at other privately owned parking (work, P&R, shopping malls, etc.) and an extensive network of fast chargers. "Superfast" charging is already on stream, the first 350kW chargers are operational today (in continental Europe). If my Ioniq could use them at full speed, a 0%-100% charge would take just 4 minutes. Quicker than it takes to get €20 petrol / diesel today and go pay for it inside. Mainstream cars that can charge at these speeds are only a few years away.

Sleeper12 wrote: »

I'm an EV owner myself and I have a driveway so when the time is right I'm ready to go.

Ready to go what? You're already an EV owner with a driveway and your own charger?

Sleeper12

unkel wrote:

Ready to go what? You're already an EV owner with a driveway and your own charger?

Typo. I'm not an EV owner yet myself. I drive a Ford Connect van. There isn't a suitable EV for me yet but I'm thinking by the time I need to replace my existing van they might have something suitable.

J.pilkington

dpboard wrote: »

Thanks all. Is running a cable from my house to the car, across the pavement, an option? I assume for safety one would have to use an outdoor cable mat/ramp/cover. I understand this is fine and legal in the UK, but not sure of the situation in Ireland.

Can you better describe the parking outside your house.

Most of the streets with resident parking zones are for the street itself and not a particular spot. Most also have parking meters meaning joe soap can also park there once they pay the meter.

Assuming you fall into the normal rules described above what will you do if a neighbour is parked outside your house / or a joe blogs (both legally).

dpboard

Shefwedfan wrote: »

What about the turn into the back laneway? is it the angle the issue or width?

The laneway is only about 2 or 3 foot wider than a normal sized car, so trying to reverse into the garage results in the front of the car scraping against the wall of the laneway. If the garage had been built set back from the laneway by a couple of feet, it would be much easier (and I can see some houses have garages like this).

I did manage to get a Hyundi i20 (about the same size as a Renualt Zoe) into the garage using a 100-point turn, but that was not something I would like to do every day. A smaller 'city car' would probably be able to practically get in, but then I have to sacrifice boot space and the smaller EVs out there are also not the best in terms of range, as well as not being readily available in Ireland.

I guess one option would be to demolish the garage... but it is well constructed out of brick with a peaked roof and wired for electricity, plumbing etc... so it would be a waste to knock it down.

hatrack wrote: »

I’ve been thinking about installing a charger at the back of the house and leaving the car parked in the laneway while charging. No one ever drives down it so don’t think it would cause too many issues. Not ideal but I expect to have a charger in work so would only need the home charger as a back up.

This is indeed a potential option. I have not noticed much traffic in the laneway and people indeed do occasionally leave cars back there. I am not sure of the legality of it though. When we bought the house there was some confusion over who owned the laneway and what the right of way was. I imagine if I did use it for charging only when required I would be fine 90% of the time, but I would be worried one of my neighbours would suddenly have a need to regularly drive down the laneway.

J.pilkington wrote: »

Can you better describe the parking outside your house.

Most of the streets with resident parking zones are for the street itself and not a particular spot. Most also have parking meters meaning joe soap can also park there once they pay the meter.

Assuming you fall into the normal rules described above what will you do if a neighbour is parked outside your house / or a joe blogs (both legally).

The street is indeed as you describe. Residents' parking permits, but the general public can pay at the meter. Most of the time there is plenty of space to park and everyone on the street seems considerate. No-one has parked outside my house yet that I've noticed (though only been in the house 3-weeks!). I think I would be fine to park outside the house overnight the vast majority of the time, and it would at least reduce my dependence on public charging.

I am going to make some enquiries with some sympathetic councillors and I'll report back if I get anywhere.

Isambard

I wonder could you install a bracket carrying the wire out from your house and drop down directly to the car. That way it would be exclusive for your use and not cause a trip hazzard. Probably need planning though

hatrack

dpboard wrote: »

The street is indeed as you describe. Residents' parking permits, but the general public can pay at the meter. Most of the time there is plenty of space to park and everyone on the street seems considerate. No-one has parked outside my house yet that I've noticed (though only been in the house 3-weeks!). I think I would be fine to park outside the house overnight the vast majority of the time, and it would at least reduce my dependence on public charging.

I am going to make some enquiries with some sympathetic councillors and I'll report back if I get anywhere.

Again, my situation is much the same. Don’t think anyone is looking the ability to reserve the space outside their house, just that when they do have that space that there’s a charger there.

Keep us posted on your interactions with councillors. I will be doing the same.

hatrack

I’ve just come across the StreetServ charger. Looks discreet and wouldn’t be an ugly box installation on the street. Wonder would the City Council be amenable to them. Can’t post the link as I’m new but they are a google search should show them up.

dpboard

hatrack wrote: »

I’ve just come across the StreetServ charger. Looks discreet and wouldn’t be an ugly box installation on the street. Wonder would the City Council be amenable to them. Can’t post the link as I’m new but they are a google search should show them up.

That's nice. It's lockable, even with a cable plugged in, so certainly would fit the bill. There aren't any other 'posts' on the street, so it would look slightly random, but certainly more discreet than most chargers.

KCross

Yea, its a good one alright if the council allow you to wire it back to your house meter.
http://assets.rolecserv.com/files/products_document/a621a9c3c73e503d70b232f76f201caf/EVSSD001%20StreetServ%20Charge%20%20Nov%202016.pdf




Another option is ubitricity: https://www.ubitricity.com
Although that option is more complicated and it would require an existing lamppost to exist exactly where your car space is, so thats unlikely.

dpboard

KCross wrote: »

Another option is ubitricity: https://www.ubitricity.com
Although that option is more complicated and it would require an existing lamppost to exist exactly where your car space is, so thats unlikely.

There are lamposts kerbside (i.e. on the pavement right next to the road), but alas not one particularly near my house.

Rod Fantana

Another option would be to locate a manhole thingy in the pavement next to the curb. Under the manhole would be a power socket wired to the private residence electricity supply. i can't post a link but Popuppower supply a neat in-ground unit which looks like it would be perfect. I live in a terraced house and have a coal hole in the public pavement so maybe all I need to do is "relocate" my existing coal hole a few feet closer to the road. No need to inform the Corpo!

Obviously you run the risk of the space being blocked by neighbours / randomers but 9 times out of 10 I would be ok for overnight charging.

dpboard

Isambard wrote: »

I wonder could you install a bracket carrying the wire out from your house and drop down directly to the car. That way it would be exclusive for your use and not cause a trip hazzard. Probably need planning though

There is actually a tree outside the house at the kerbside, so one rather dodgy technique would be to leave a cable running between the house and the tree, coiled up on a branch. If anyone queried one could say it's for Christmas lights....

Isambard

dpboard wrote: »

There is actually a tree outside the house at the kerbside, so one rather dodgy technique would be to leave a cable running between the house and the tree, coiled up on a branch. If anyone queried one could say it's for Christmas lights....

My concern with multiple wires across the pavement, even from a proper point, is that they will be a trip hazard and liable to vandalism.

dpboard

Minor update, I contacted a sympathetic councillor and the general feeling was that it is tricky as the council will want to avoid adding clutter to the public pavements as this causes problems for people with disabilities. I can completely understand this viewpoint, though if this is the case serious work will be needed on the public charging infrastructure is EV ownership is going to become feasible for inner-city dwellers.

KCross

dpboard wrote: »

Minor update, I contacted a sympathetic councillor and the general feeling was that it is tricky as the council will want to avoid adding clutter to the public pavements as this causes problems for people with disabilities. I can completely understand this viewpoint, though if this is the case serious work will be needed on the public charging infrastructure is EV ownership is going to become feasible for inner-city dwellers.

How would a charge point at the kerbside be an issue for people with disabilities?

Clearly you can't have cables strewn across footpaths but the examples given above pose no risk to people with disabilities, imo, unless the footpath is really narrow.

ED E

KCross wrote: »

Clearly you can't have cables strewn across footpaths but the examples given above pose no risk to people with disabilities, imo, unless the footpath is really narrow.

He did say inner city, some are barely wide enough for the narrowest of prams.

hatrack

dpboard wrote: »

Minor update, I contacted a sympathetic councillor and the general feeling was that it is tricky as the council will want to avoid adding clutter to the public pavements as this causes problems for people with disabilities. I can completely understand this viewpoint, though if this is the case serious work will be needed on the public charging infrastructure is EV ownership is going to become feasible for inner-city dwellers.

Disappointing to hear but can understand why the council would be non-committal. It’s fair enough on the clutter point but if there are streetlights close to the curb already a bollard wouldn’t cause any more of an obstruction.

Would like to them rolled out on a trial basis at least but don’t see it happening.

Dardania

It is understandable - I wonder is there any solution, similar to that https://popuppower.co.uk/products/in-ground-units/ jobbie, but with side exit for the cables?
As with top exit for the cables, there is a tiny protrusion above the floorbox, however if the floorbox were installed at the edge of the curb, you could exit the cable straight to the road

dpboard

hatrack wrote: »

Disappointing to hear but can understand why the council would be non-committal. It’s fair enough on the clutter point but if there are streetlights close to the curb already a bollard wouldn’t cause any more of an obstruction.

This is a fair point. The road in question has regular obstructions on the kerbside in the form of trees and lampposts, though there is enough room on the path for a wheelchair or pram to comfortably get past.

Dardania wrote: »

It is understandable - I wonder is there any solution, similar to that https://popuppower.co.uk/products/in-ground-units/ jobbie, but with side exit for the cables?
As with top exit for the cables, there is a tiny protrusion above the floorbox, however if the floorbox were installed at the edge of the curb, you could exit the cable straight to the road

That would be ideal.

I haven't given up yet. I think ideally the council should send someone around to survey how suitable the path is for a charger. The cost for this could be covered by the person requesting the charger.

Another thought I just had is that it is possible for people to get their kerb dropped so they can have a drive. This is essentially the council losing a public parking space. If this happens sometimes, I feel getting a charger installed should be possible, especially as it won't actually be a reserved parking space.

Dardania

Semi tempted to try spec the requirements of this little side exit floorbox, and approach Rolec or similar - there must be many cases where this would apply. I could certainly do with one - I have planning permission to put in a driveway for EV charging, but the exact scenario you describe about the council losing a parking space occurs.
A few bends in a sheet of mild steel could do the trick

Isambard

well one might not pose a problem but dozens of them on every street certainly would

KCross

Isambard wrote: »

well one might not pose a problem but dozens of them on every street certainly would

Why?
They would be on the kerbside, not where people walk.

Are you referring to the look of it?

Dardania

What about putting something like this on the vertical face of the kerb?:

https://m.aliexpress.com/item/32734466361.html?trace=wwwdetail2mobilesitedetail&productId=32734466361&productSubject=IEC-62196-2-male-female-charger-ev-charging-connector-plug-electric-vehicle-charge-socket-For-32amp

It would need to be a bit better weathered on the back...but the principle elements are there

Isambard

KCross wrote: »

Why?
They would be on the kerbside, not where people walk.

Are you referring to the look of it?

two problems: If they are right on the kerb, they'll get sideswiped by cars swinging into a space. If they aren't they'll get in the way of pedestrians.

KCross

Isambard wrote: »

two problems: If they are right on the kerb, they'll get sideswiped by cars swinging into a space. If they aren't they'll get in the way of pedestrians.

They would be positioned the same as a kerbside lamp post. If someone wants to side swipe it they will have a damaged car they need to pay for and an insurance bill to replace the damaged unit.

I don't see the issue to be honest.

dpboard

I spoke to a firm which installs chargers and they said that a major problem would be that if you have an electrical appliance in a public area the emergency services need to be able to isolate it easily (in case someone crashes their car into it). If the charger is fed from your house supply that becomes more difficult, and the emergency services would probably have to pull power to the whole street.

This does make sense to me. I lived on a steep street once, and someone left their car parked without the handbrake on. I stepped out my front door and promptly saw the car rolling past and it proceeded to smash into a power cabinet. The emergency services had to cut power to the whole area to remove the car, as the car was live.

dpboard

Dardania wrote: »

What about putting something like this on the vertical face of the kerb?:

https://m.aliexpress.com/item/32734466361.html?trace=wwwdetail2mobilesitedetail&productId=32734466361&productSubject=IEC-62196-2-male-female-charger-ev-charging-connector-plug-electric-vehicle-charge-socket-For-32amp

It would need to be a bit better weathered on the back...but the principle elements are there

One potential issue here is that I can imagine if there is a very wet day or a water main starts leaking, water might start pooling in the gutter and submerge the socket. I would be worried if it was not closed properly or fully water-tight (or even currently in use) you could get serious problems. There is probably a reason electrical sockets are generally mounted a few feet off the ground. It would at least trip the RCD.

Reading up on the regs, I have found a rule saying that sockets in caravan parks have to be at a height between 0.5m and 1.5m above the ground. I haven't been able to find any regs relating to sockets that are not in a caravan park.

BrookieD

Hi Guys
Interesting conversation, I am looking to get an EV and live in a culdesac in Ashbourne (map link https://goo.gl/maps/gGtBnx5gYDA2 ) While not off street its very very quiet traffic wise and was wondering if anyone managed to get a charge point installed in the front garden in a set up like this? If the charge point was on the wall where the meter is it would be a short hop to the car parked at the house (which it always is, no one disrespects ts parking here).

Any feedback would be great.

unkel

It's still a public footpath your cable has to cross though? You won't qualify for the €600 subsidy in that situation iirc.

But do you really need an EV charge point? You could probably get away with using a granny charger and a cable coming out of a window / front door, particularly if you're the end house. Doesn't take away your public liability though...

Shefwedfan

Which exactly is your house? Which number?

Some of the houses have a small green rectangle in front of them, you could put into that if in front of the house? stick cable under the ground

LFC Murphy

Isambard wrote: »

I wonder could you install a bracket carrying the wire out from your house and drop down directly to the car. That way it would be exclusive for your use and not cause a trip hazzard. Probably need planning though

Sorry to drag up an old thread, but am interested in EV but have On Street parking.

Have being considering something similar to that mentioned above in that a Swing Arm Bracket that can rotate over the car with the cable dropping down and be tied back up against the house during non charging?

Such swing arms are used in industry etc...

Any thoughts

KCross

Initial thought is that its going to look very ugly and depending on your specific setup that would need to be quite a long arm.

Will the neighbors be happy with it?

LFC Murphy

KCross wrote: »

Initial thought is that its going to look very ugly and depending on your specific setup that would need to be quite a long arm.

Will the neighbors be happy with it?

Hadn't thought about neighbour impact actually. and next question is would it require planning

Gumbo

LFC Murphy wrote: »

Hadn't thought about neighbour impact actually. and next question is would it require planning

Technically yes it you could be discreet with the set up and try make the arm demountable.

n97 mini

LFC Murphy wrote: »

Hadn't thought about neighbour impact actually. and next question is would it require planning

I would imagine so. Satellite dishes are not permitted on the front elevation...