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Disc Brake Upgrade Advice

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  • 22-01-2018 11:46pm
    #1
    bilbot79
    Registered Users Posts: 1,980 ✭✭✭


    I got this bike for commuting and a bit of CX adventuring..

    https://www.planetx.co.uk/i/q/EBPXXLSULT/planet-x-xls-shimano-ultegra-6800-carbon-cyclo-cross-bike

    Thing is the brakes turn out to be a bit meh, though the bike itself is awesome and Strava times are close enough to my Mourenx 69. I got it for 900 Sterling so I think I've room to upgrade the brakes.

    My question is what can I do? Do I have to stick with mechanical? Can there be compatibility issues?

    Does anyone know of a disc brakeset that will give me awesome stopping power and how much could this upgrade cost?

    Edit: I think the current brakes are Avid BB5.


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    #2
    Borderfox
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 10,257 Mod ✭✭✭✭Borderfox


    I have bb7 brakes with dura ace cables on the winter bike and Trp hy/Rd semi hydraulic on the good bike and I find both equally good.

    Cables and outers make a big difference too.
    What don't you like about the performance?


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    #3
    bilbot79
    Registered Users Posts: 1,980 ✭✭✭bilbot79


    Borderfox wrote: »
    I have bb7 brakes with dura ace cables on the winter bike and Trp hy/Rd semi hydraulic on the good bike and I find both equally good.

    Cables and outers make a big difference too.
    What don't you like about the performance?

    The guy in the bike shop said this is how planet x keep the price low, by cutting corners. After inital tune up of the bike I found the brakes were not much more powerful than calipers. My brothers mtb has mechanicals and they are much more powerful.

    At 26 pounds they are surely a compromise?


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    #4
    The tax man
    Registered Users Posts: 4,557 ✭✭✭The tax man


    TRP HY-RD would be the cheapest upgrade to get good stopping power. I upgraded from them to a full hydraulic brake system and found little in the difference performance wise.


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    #5
    Lumen
    Registered Users Posts: 31,010 ✭✭✭✭Lumen


    bilbot79 wrote: »
    My brothers mtb has mechanicals and they are much more powerful.
    MTB brake levers are fine with mechanical discs. It's with road levers that they're crap.

    You need hydraulic brakes.


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    #6
    Lumen
    Registered Users Posts: 31,010 ✭✭✭✭Lumen


    The tax man wrote: »
    TRP HY-RD would be the cheapest upgrade to get good stopping power. I upgraded from them to a full hydraulic brake system and found little in the difference performance wise.
    I tried a Giant with those. The front was fine but the back awful. Long cable runs are bad for mechanical discs and cable outer performance and details of installation make a big difference

    So it's difficult to be certain that switching only calipers will improve things.


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    #7
    Alek
    Registered Users Posts: 4,520 ✭✭✭Alek


    The front was fine but the back awful. Long cable runs are bad for mechanical discs and cable outer performance and details of installation make a big difference

    I run HY/RDs on my main bike with Jagwire cables, I can easily skid rear if I'm not careful. If you get quality _compressionless_ cables and install them with no tight bends, it will be just fine.

    In fairness, power-wise they are nowhere near cheap MTB hydraulics, but with road tyres and their puny contact patch these would kill me on the first emergency stop. In other words: there is a reason why they are weaker, yet still adequate for stopping behind a taxi that just warped itself in front of you to get a fare. Tried&tested.


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    #8
    nak
    Registered Users Posts: 1,538 ✭✭✭nak


    Decent rotors are a good upgrade that's not too expensive - swapped out the rotors on my cross bike to Shimano 160s last year (with hy/rds) - huge difference.


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    #9
    magicbastarder
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 48,365 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    how much did the new rotors cost?


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    #10
    nak
    Registered Users Posts: 1,538 ✭✭✭nak


    magicbastarder wrote: »
    how much did the new rotors cost?
    Around €30 each plus the adaptors.  Brakes work a bit too well now ;)


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    #11
    cajonlardo
    Registered Users Posts: 1,018 ✭✭✭cajonlardo


    The tax man wrote: »
    TRP HY-RD would be the cheapest upgrade to get good stopping power. I upgraded from them to a full hydraulic brake system and found little in the difference performance wise.

    2nd that from my own experience.
    Could have saved good money and a lot of time if I'd known


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    #12
    Alek
    Registered Users Posts: 4,520 ✭✭✭Alek


    Could have saved good money and a lot of time if I'd known

    You recon the stopping power is largely the same? But that lever feel.... ;)


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    #13
    Borderfox
    Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 10,257 Mod ✭✭✭✭Borderfox


    The Trp hy/rd were fantastic at the reservoir dog last year in very heavy rain, great stopping power and modulation


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    #14
    GarBal
    Registered Users Posts: 1 ✭GarBal


    Giant do a mechanical to hydraulic conversion kit. Give Giant Dublin a ring and speak to James...


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    #15
    The tax man
    Registered Users Posts: 4,557 ✭✭✭The tax man


    Lumen wrote: »
    I tried a Giant with those. The front was fine but the back awful. Long cable runs are bad for mechanical discs and cable outer performance and details of installation make a big difference

    So it's difficult to be certain that switching only calipers will improve things.

    Compression-less housing is a must, end of. I only switched due to,in my eyes, a design flaw with the cable routing on my Focus. After every three CX races my rear lever would go spongy. No matter how I tried to seal things,water still managed to find it's way down the outer housing and pool at the lowest point under my BB. Inner cable would start to rust and stick.I had to remove the water factor from my setup, hence full hydraulic upgrade.
    When the cables worked properly, the calipers were faultless. I suffered the full mechanical system before and would never go there again.


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    #16
    magicbastarder
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 48,365 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    Lumen wrote: »
    I tried a Giant with those. The front was fine but the back awful. Long cable runs are bad for mechanical discs and cable outer performance and details of installation make a big difference
    interestingly, i was not that impressed with my rear brake performance (hy-rd), until i went out on a wet muddy day. came back and the brakes were grinding a bit - some mud had gotten between the pads and rotor, presumably, and after i cleaned them, the braking performance was markedly improved. so i guess the abrasion obviously cleaned off something i'd not previously been able to clean off.


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    #17
    Lemming
    Registered Users Posts: 14,148 ✭✭✭✭Lemming


    magicbastarder wrote: »
    interestingly, i was not that impressed with my rear brake performance (hy-rd), until i went out on a wet muddy day. came back and the brakes were grinding a bit - some mud had gotten between the pads and rotor, presumably, and after i cleaned them, the braking performance was markedly improved. so i guess the abrasion obviously cleaned off something i'd not previously been able to clean off.

    It would have scoured the pad & rotor surfaces clean of contaminants.


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    #18
    Fian
    Registered Users Posts: 2,187 ✭✭✭Fian


    I won't pretend to be an expert to any extent, nor am i racing or pushing descents to the limits.

    Having said that I have had bikes with both hydraullic disc and mechanical disc brakes, as well as (mechanical) rim brakes.

    In order of preference - Hydraullic disc, rim, mechanical disc.

    Mech discs are obviously better in the rain than mechanical rim, and probably better than mechanical rim for bringing you to a quick stop in any weather - though not much in it in the dry. They are not so good at "slowing" rather than "stopping" which you need to do more often.

    I will never buy another bike with mechanical discs. Hydraullic discs are a different animal entirely - They give me so much more confidence in brakeing. Love them.

    Never tried hydraullic rim, I imagine they are also very good at applying graduated amounts of braking, but of course will suffer in the wet. And mechanical rim are reasonably good at that anyway, i guess there is a difference between applying gentle mechanical pressure from a rubber stop to an aluminium rim, than from applying mechanical pressure to brake pads and a rotor.


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    #19
    Fian
    Registered Users Posts: 2,187 ✭✭✭Fian


    magicbastarder wrote: »
    interestingly, i was not that impressed with my rear brake performance (hy-rd), until i went out on a wet muddy day. came back and the brakes were grinding a bit - some mud had gotten between the pads and rotor, presumably, and after i cleaned them, the braking performance was markedly improved. so i guess the abrasion obviously cleaned off something i'd not previously been able to clean off.

    they talk about rotors needing to be "beded in" - apparently they are coated with an anti-corrosion agent and need to be "sandpapered" a bit as well to roughen the smooth surface before they bite properly. So I think you need to use them a bit before they properly bed in. Not sure if this muddy day was just after you got them or a few months later of course, so sorry if i got wrong end of stick.


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    #20
    Lemming
    Registered Users Posts: 14,148 ✭✭✭✭Lemming


    Fian wrote: »
    they talk about rotors needing to be "beded in" - apparently they are coated with an anti-corrosion agent and need to be "sandpapered" a bit as well to roughen the smooth surface before they bite properly. So I think you need to use them a bit before they properly bed in. Not sure if this muddy day was just after you got them or a few months later of course, so sorry if i got wrong end of stick.

    The idea of bedding in is to break up the surface of the pads a bit & spread across the rotor surface to aid bite, in addition to clearing any residude from both pad & rotor too. It's dead easy to do; just find a quiet straight stretch to ride on; doesn't need to be much, just enough to quickly sprint to speed, and then pile on the brakes. Do that back and forth a few times and you'll be good to go. If there's a howl, it'll be because there's something on the pads and/or rotor, but the above action should clear it all off. If it doesn't; I'd think about replacing the pads and possibly lightly sand-papering the rotor surfaces to remove any lingering contaminent whilst wearing sterile gloves to prevent oil from your skin getting onto the rotors


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    #21
    magicbastarder
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Arts Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 48,365 CMod ✭✭✭✭magicbastarder


    Fian wrote: »
    they talk about rotors needing to be "beded in" - apparently they are coated with an anti-corrosion agent and need to be "sandpapered" a bit as well to roughen the smooth surface before they bite properly. So I think you need to use them a bit before they properly bed in. Not sure if this muddy day was just after you got them or a few months later of course, so sorry if i got wrong end of stick.
    this was with a few thousand k on the bike - bike was bought secondhand.


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    #22
    Alek
    Registered Users Posts: 4,520 ✭✭✭Alek


    Sometimes you can pick up a little oil / diesel / godknowswhat from the road and your disc brake performance diminishes noticeably... until the next downhill hard braking or a muddy spin :)


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    #23
    Macy0161
    Registered Users Posts: 9,271 ✭✭✭Macy0161


    Fian wrote: »
    Mech discs are obviously better in the rain than mechanical rim, and probably better than mechanical rim for bringing you to a quick stop in any weather - though not much in it in the dry. They are not so good at "slowing" rather than "stopping" which you need to do more often.
    Haven't tried hydraulic discs on the road, but have mechanical discs at the moment. I find them a bit of a ballache overall (with rub, squeals etc), but it has been noticeable on a few twisty, wet and mucky descents that I've seemed to have had an advantage on the lads with rim brakes (who'd otherwise be much better bike handlers than me). Next road bike will be rim brakes.

    Might look at that upgrade kit, if the disc braked defy is going to be a winter bike only!


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