Thoughts on new Passat - diesel v petrol, DSG v manual

DriveSkill

Looking at a new Highline Passat and the numbers look relatively good.

PCP @1.9%, additional €2K contribution, 3 years servicing so basically would cost approx 300 pm with a GFMV of €13.5K.

One downside is obviously I have a big deposit now as trading in a 3 year old car (too much in fact, so will get cash back) which wont be there the next time but I would intend keeping it longer than 3 years so plan would be PCP for 3 years and then finance the outstanding over 2-3 further years.

Numbers I ran with were the 1.6 Diesel Manual which seems to be by far the most common however I'm wondering if it would make more sense to go with the 1.4 petrol option - I dont do high mileage. One thought is in 3 years the diesel might be worth less than a petrol depending on how the market goes.

Second decision then is manual vs DSG. I actually like autos i general, think much better for cruise control and the Passat has adaptive cruise so effective you could 'set and forget' (sort of ). However quick check on carzone seems to be very few of the DSG in general compared with the manual. Any known issues with the current engines/gearboxes.

Thoughts?

MarkN

DriveSkill wrote: »

Looking at a new Highline Passat and the numbers look relatively good.

PCP @1.9%, additional €2K contribution, 3 years servicing so basically would cost approx 300 pm with a GFMV of €13.5K.

One downside is obviously I have a big deposit now as trading in a 3 year old car (too much in fact, so will get cash back) which wont be there the next time but I would intend keeping it longer than 3 years so plan would be PCP for 3 years and then finance the outstanding over 2-3 further years.

Numbers I ran with were the 1.6 Diesel Manual which seems to be by far the most common however I'm wondering if it would make more sense to go with the 1.4 petrol option - I dont do high mileage. One thought is in 3 years the diesel might be worth less than a petrol depending on how the market goes.

Second decision then is manual vs DSG. I actually like autos i general, think much better for cruise control and the Passat has adaptive cruise so effective you could 'set and forget' (sort of ). However quick check on carzone seems to be very few of the DSG in general compared with the manual. Any known issues with the current engines/gearboxes.

Thoughts?

No issues with DSG that I’m aware of, VW have done it a long time.

If you’re planning on keeping the car passed the 3 years, I really would be buying the car that YOU want, not what you think the next buyer will want. And even if you do trade in after 3 years, a petrol will still be in demand but don’t underestimate how well diesel will still be selling in that segment of car in 3 years too.

That said, either a manual or auto Passat will always sell and either a petrol or diesel will always sell, I would confidently say presently though that there’s a much higher amount of diesel Passats being sold over petrols.

If you do only do small miles and your heart would prefer a petrol then do it, you might find a petrol auto Passat is a little rarer down the line but I think that might make it a little more special.

Good that you’re at least clear on that if your deposit is 30% going in that you’d need that in equity or further deposit the next time to keep repayments at €300.

George Dalton

I was away for 6 days after Christmas and rented a 1.4TSI Passat DSG and I was very impressed with it. Very refined. Not fast but not slow either. Economy wise it returned 45mpg over the full tank whereas the diesel probably would have done 55.

If I had a choice between 1.6TDI and 1.4TSI I’d take the petrol unless I was doing huge mileage. Which I doubt you are since you are looking at PCP.

NIMAN

I drive a manual Golf, 1.6TDi.

Got it serviced the other day and my loan car was a 1.0 petrol Golf, manual too.

Noticed no difference in driving, the 1.0 petrol was more than capable and quick enough. One thing that did stand out was just how noisy my diesel was when I got back into it, and how quiet the petrol must have been in comparison.

I am tempted to go petrol when I change next, but I do appreciate that I am likely to get 10 or more miles less per gallon of fuel with a petrol.

I also would love to go DSG next time, but its an expensive extra on VWs.

I think in terms of attractiveness to potential buyers, a diesel will likely be better, but none of us know how the Gov is going to tax or penalise diesel owners in the coming years. Its guaranteed they will, but it might take 3,6,10 years, who knows.

DaveyDave

Petrol DSG all the way. Don't let the lack of secondhand ones out you off. The Irish market in a nutshell is diesel, manual, paddy spec.

Sure my Golf is a DSG. Last year only 539 of the 4,321 sold were DSG. The Passat was only 262 of 2,074 and you'd think all the motorway diesels out there would be auto.

The DSG pairs well with adaptive cruise and auto hold. It was also only available on the petrol Passat in the last few months. Hopefully over the next year or two we can also get the 150hp engine and maybe even the 180hp or 220hp that the UK have. 4 of the 6 petrol models in the UK are automatic. Surprised to see auto sales still so low.

JoeA3

Whichever engine you pick, go with DSG without hesitation. Makes for a much more comfortable all round car.

mickdw

DaveyDave wrote: »

Petrol DSG all the way. Don't let the lack of secondhand ones out you off. The Irish market in a nutshell is diesel, manual, paddy spec.

Sure my Golf is a DSG. Last year only 539 of the 4,321 sold were DSG. The Passat was only 262 of 2,074 and you'd think all the motorway diesels out there would be auto.

The DSG pairs well with adaptive cruise and auto hold.

I find the 1.6 tdi manual to be very harsh and rather annoying at slow speeds. Fine on the move.
2.0 tdi would be a better bet or the petrol.
It has to be said, the vw deals are working out pretty good value on pcp with the low interest and resale values as good as any.
Id go for a dsg too.

George Dalton

I’d rather a 2.0TDI as well but the price jump from 1.4TSI to 2.0TDI is huge AFAIK?

DriveSkill

Thanks for all the input.

The 2.0TDI is approx €5K over the 1.4 TSI and about €2K over the 1.6TDI.

It would push it over budget really to go for that and then add on a few options.

My head is sort of at the 1.4TSI DSG - price wise its practically same as the 1.6TDI Manual so overall figures should be pretty as I have already. I'll see if I can get a test drive in one but could be scarce.

colm_mcm

Maybe look at the Mondeo Vignale too. It’s a saloon, the only Mondeo that comes in a saloon. 2.0 TDCI standard and loaded with kit. They’re selling them out straight for 33.5k list price is 42 but nobody wants them for that money. It’d be easy to dismiss them as a modern day VandenPlas but the Mondeo is a very competent car to begin with.

NIMAN

DaveyDave wrote: »

The DSG pairs well with adaptive cruise and auto hold.

My Golf has Adaptive Cruise and I often use it, but its a pain having to change gear as the car slows or speeds up.

I often wished I had DSG so the car could do all that as well (lazy git I know).

bazz26

colm_mcm wrote: »

Maybe look at the Mondeo Vignale too. It’s a saloon, the only Mondeo that comes in a saloon. 2.0 TDCI standard and loaded with kit. They’re selling them out straight for 33.5k list price is 42 but nobody wants them for that money. It’d be easy to dismiss them as a modern day VandenPlas but the Mondeo is a very competent car to begin with.

Vignale now available as a hatchback/estate too and lower 150bhp engine.

JoeA3

NIMAN wrote: »

My Golf has Adaptive Cruise and I often use it, but its a pain having to change gear as the car slows or speeds up.

I often wished I had DSG so the car could do all that as well (lazy git I know).

Yeah the DSG compliments the adaptive cruise really well.

mickdw

JoeA3 wrote: »

Yeah the DSG compliments the adaptive cruise really well.

Will the car come to a complete stop?
Ive driven the manual with adaptive cruise and it works very well but no doubt would be much better with auto.

DriveSkill

NIMAN wrote: »

My Golf has Adaptive Cruise and I often use it, but its a pain having to change gear as the car slows or speeds up.

I often wished I had DSG so the car could do all that as well (lazy git I know).

Thats exactly my thinking also - lazy and getting old I think I use cruise control pretty much all the time and find it really handy to both keep within speed limits and also just relaxed drive. Combined with a 'brake' function and auto box is just perfect - I notch it up and down in 10km/h increments as I drive through 60/80/100 speed zones etc and let it do the work.

At the moment we have one auto and one manual car and it annoys me in the manual when I have to do the gear changes and it messes up the cruise control....grumpy old man really! We are trading the manual on so we could end up with 2 autos.

Leonard Hofstadter

I'd say definitely get the petrol anyway, the 1.6 diesel is as slow as a funeral in them and it's dearer as well. I'd save the money and stick with the manual if it was a petrol (try both if you're not sure though, but I personally don't think petrol need automatics unless you're after a luxury type car - petrols have a much wider power band and are much smoother than diesels so changing gears is no hassle in a petrol and depending on the car, it will be faster and use less fuel as wel).

If you're set on buying a diesel well I have driven the 1.6 TDIs in both manual and DSG, and I wouldn't touch a manual one of these with a bargepole, the DSG transforms them; it disguises all the things I don't like about diesels beautifully and will just make the car a much more relaxing and satisfying experience. It's definitely a must have option for any diesel.

colm_mcm

bazz26 wrote: »

Vignale now available as a hatchback/estate too and lower 150bhp engine.

It even looks like the saloon isn’t an option any more.

JoeA3

mickdw wrote: »

Will the car come to a complete stop?
Ive driven the manual with adaptive cruise and it works very well but no doubt would be much better with auto.

Yes. A few times for the craic I drove my car from work to home without touching any pedals. It’ll tail the car in front and will stop when he stops. When ready to go again press Resume on the steering wheel and off you go again. It’s particularly good if you are in a slow moving queue of traffic.

It’s not perfect obviously so you can’t go and read the paper like the car is on full auto pilot! One time it gave me a fright as the car in front changed lanes coming up to a junction and then as no car was in front of me, my car sped up rapidly while approaching a junction.

Squeaksoutloud

OP I pretty much asked the same question only the other day

https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057831445

In the same boat as yourself except have mine on order since before Christmas. Got it as 0.9% as they upped the rate on the 1st Jan but I didn't get the service pack so swings and roundabouts really. Had shopped around with 3 dealers so was happy enough with what I was getting.

Originally ordered the 1.6 diesel but having driven one for 3 weeks I was far from convinced it was for me. Bit gruff and not the fastest and seeing as I intend keeping the car for longer than the 3 years I then decided to up to the 2.0. Havent actually tried it though. Then the other day just realised the difference between the 1.4 petrol and 2.0d is actually €4,250!

Did a few more calcs and because my work mileage being expensed the diesel just about won out for me - get a lower rate for the 1.4 vs a 1.6 or greater. The other things that swung it for me was:

- the fact that I was told by dealer that they only give a €1k contribution to the petrol vs €2k on the diesels. Check this out so really only €3k or so in it v the 2.0d. Not much in it with the 1.6d.
- Looking at carzone there was 491 diesels vs 7 petrols and think the only nice petrol is listed incorrectly. The only petrols were basic comfortline spec. so resale may be an issue. Hard to know as maybe all will change and everyone will want a petrol in a few years time.
- Articles in the UK about how car Co2 emissions had increased in the UK in 2017 due to buyers switchover to petrol. Think because of this governments will be slow to push people over to petrol and will instead concentrate on electric/hybrid benefits. But we are probably behind the UK so people will probably follow suit gradually. For this size car though diesel probably safe enough still.

Having said all that I'm still in 2 minds as like the idea of petrol auto. If it was the 150bhp petrol or the new 1.5 I would more likely go for it. If it didnt effect my work mileage rate I would definitely go petrol. If low mileage and between the 1.6d or 1.4 petrol I would most likely go petrol however. Difficult to make the mind up and couldn't get a test drive of the petrol as so few of them.

DriveSkill

Thanks @squeaksoutloud - I hadnt seen your thread for some reason but yes a lot of the same questions!

Interesting that the €2K contribution is not available on the Petrol - that would change my figures albeit probably small enough overall.

I will try call in again tomorrow and have a chat and see if they have a petrol demo or ideally a petrol DSG but I think that is unlikely!!

Is your leadtime about 12 weeks ? They do have some of the standard 1.6D Highlines in stock now which I guess I could get within 1-2 weeks, they have technology pack and the sports pack (full leather + different alloys). However if I was doing a special order which I think the DSG petrol would be I'd be tempted to add in the 360-Degree camera also. I think its a useful feature and also perhaps upgrade the LED lights to the 'premium' which gives you cornering etc.

DriveSkill

So going through the options I noticed this :

WD4 ANTI-THEFT ALARM SYSTEM "PLUS" Anti-theft alarm system with engine immobiliser, interior monitoring, backup horn, towing protection

Its a €450 option across all spec levels.

Thing is this is described as a "Plus" but I dont see any details of what comes as standard - no mention of immobiliser at all in fact anywhere else in the brochure. I assume it must have an immobiliser as standard and perhaps this is adding the "Alarm" part but will need to check.

Mainly thinking of insurance costs I assumed that pretty much all cars now came with Alarm and Immobilisers as standard, if you dont have it then just another reason to hike up the cost again on the premium.

colm_mcm

All cars have immobilisers, don’t worry.

Squeaksoutloud

DriveSkill wrote: »

Thanks @squeaksoutloud - I hadnt seen your thread for some reason but yes a lot of the same questions!

Interesting that the €2K contribution is not available on the Petrol - that would change my figures albeit probably small enough overall.

I will try call in again tomorrow and have a chat and see if they have a petrol demo or ideally a petrol DSG but I think that is unlikely!!

Is your leadtime about 12 weeks ? They do have some of the standard 1.6D Highlines in stock now which I guess I could get within 1-2 weeks, they have technology pack and the sports pack (full leather + different alloys). However if I was doing a special order which I think the DSG petrol would be I'd be tempted to add in the 360-Degree camera also. I think its a useful feature and also perhaps upgrade the LED lights to the 'premium' which gives you cornering etc.

The dealer told me the contribution was halved for the petrol but have never seen it mentioned in writing in any ad or conditions anywhere. Will be interested to see what he says to you as is certainly swayed my thoughts.

Was initially told 8-10 weeks but looks like that has been pushed out to 12 weeks now. Stuck for a car in March and they agreed to sort me out if it went over the 1st March.

Premium LED are pricey enough extra for what they are - though they also seem to give a much a sharper DRL than the standard version. You can see it in all the videos and reviews for the passat abroad.

I went with metallic, sportpack and rline exterior after seeing this one parked up somewhere:


Didn't bother with the tech pack as most of the stuff didn't seem that useful to me and rline forces you to add on a few other things as well. Also the 18 inch alloys push you into a higher tax bracket with the 2.0 engine but peanuts really.

JoeA3

DriveSkill wrote: »

So going through the options I noticed this :



Its a €450 option across all spec levels.

Thing is this is described as a "Plus" but I dont see any details of what comes as standard - no mention of immobiliser at all in fact anywhere else in the brochure. I assume it must have an immobiliser as standard and perhaps this is adding the "Alarm" part but will need to check.

Mainly thinking of insurance costs I assumed that pretty much all cars now came with Alarm and Immobilisers as standard, if you dont have it then just another reason to hike up the cost again on the premium.

It definitely has an immobiliser. Every car has that.

Not sure about the Passat but in the Golf unless you spec the alarm, you don’t get deadlocks either. Meaning the doors can be opened by smashing a window and reaching in to pull the interior door opener. So maybe the “plus” refers to deadlocking.

Rusky rusky

JoeA3 wrote: »

It definitely has an immobiliser. Every car has that.

Not sure about the Passat but in the Golf unless you spec the alarm, you don’t get deadlocks either. Meaning the doors can be opened by smashing a window and reaching in to pull the interior door opener. So maybe the “plus” refers to deadlocking.

I haven’t seen an alarm in the list of options for golfs

Rusky rusky

DriveSkill wrote: »

Thanks @squeaksoutloud - I hadnt seen your thread for some reason but yes a lot of the same questions!

Interesting that the €2K contribution is not available on the Petrol - that would change my figures albeit probably small enough overall.

I will try call in again tomorrow and have a chat and see if they have a petrol demo or ideally a petrol DSG but I think that is unlikely!!

Is your leadtime about 12 weeks ? They do have some of the standard 1.6D Highlines in stock now which I guess I could get within 1-2 weeks, they have technology pack and the sports pack (full leather + different alloys). However if I was doing a special order which I think the DSG petrol would be I'd be tempted to add in the 360-Degree camera also. I think its a useful feature and also perhaps upgrade the LED lights to the 'premium' which gives you cornering etc.

I couldn’t test drive a petrol golf with dsg. At all. Had to test drive Octavia instead. Petrol contribution was 1k in novermber on Highlines fininced through pcp. They added 2k for diesels later. I guess they have to make diesels more appealing as the residuals on them are rubbish now

DaveyDave

Whatever you do, don't buy a diesel Passat just because it's on the forecourt! I waited 4 and a half months for my Golf DSG and it was worth every second.

I wouldn't be put off by the lack of petrols being bad for second hand value, VW seem to be holding strong. Once people shift back to petrol hopefully we'll see more engines and there will be more interest. You can only get 125hp now and a lot of people would go for the 150hp.

Regarding area 360 view, I hear they're very good. Same as LED headlights. If money allows personally I'd get the adjustable seat with ventilation. Electric seats are particularly useful if you're tall as you can tilt the lower part to bring it up more towards your knees. Also ventilated seats are the business, had them on a rental Mustang and they're great, cool arse in the summer

Also having less contribution on petrol still isn't terrible, it's still cheaper right? I didn't get any contribution on my Golf and I'm still happy

Good luck getting a DSG to test drive. As I pointed out in my previous post the sales numbers on them are surprisingly low. When the MK7.5 Golf was new the only model I could drive was the MK7 and with the 1.4, I was going for the 1.0. Had to wait a while for that too and the day I went to drive it, after parking up at the dealer they called to say they wouldn't have it for another few days...

Rusky rusky wrote: »

I haven’t seen an alarm in the list of options for golfs

GTI has it, standard on the R as far as I know. New Polo has it too. Raging my Highline didn't have it.

Rusky rusky

O well, I didn’t check the GTIs and Rs:)

DriveSkill

JoeA3 wrote: »

It definitely has an immobiliser. Every car has that.

Not sure about the Passat but in the Golf unless you spec the alarm, you don’t get deadlocks either. Meaning the doors can be opened by smashing a window and reaching in to pull the interior door opener. So maybe the “plus” refers to deadlocking.

I think you are correct, there is a reference to ‘Safelock’ in conjunction with the alarm option so I believe that is what we would normally call deadlocks!

Very odd that is not standard, last car I had to add an alarm on was in 2000 :-)

JoeA3

Alarm is optional across the Golf range afaik. It’s standard in the R only as mentioned.

Rusky rusky

JoeA3 wrote: »

Alarm is optional across the Golf range afaik. It’s standard in the R only as mentioned.

I had a quick at VW configurator and there’s no alarm option on the highline estate. Hatchback has it.

DaveyDave

Rusky rusky wrote: »

I had a quick at VW configurator and there’s no alarm option on the highline estate. Hatchback has it.

****ers! Really don't see why this wasn't available for 172 models? I see they have emergency phone call for crashes too.

Rusky rusky

DaveyDave wrote: »

****ers! Really don't see why this wasn't available for 172 models? I see they have emergency phone call for crashes too.

What I don’t understand is why hatchbacks has more options than estates. Same car really.
Private Emergency call for 461 Euro they can keep:)

JoeA3

Don’t rely on the configurator. It’s pants and should be used as a rough guide only. In my experience VW are obliging enough if you ask for spec that isn’t officially available on a particular model.

Ryath

Rusky rusky wrote: »

I had a quick at VW configurator and there’s no alarm option on the highline estate. Hatchback has it.

It would be available configurator is often wrong or incomplete. Other options are often available.

Rusky rusky

Yeah, probably. They only option, apart from the tech pack, I ordered was park assist:)