I learnt a new word today "calumny"

Oldtree

It means "the making of false and defamatory statements about someone in order to damage their reputation; slander."

Francis said that until he sees proof that Bishop Juan Barros was complicit in covering up the sex crimes of the Reverend Fernando Karadima, such accusations against Barros are “all Calumny”.

The pope’s remarks drew shock from Chileans and immediate rebuke from victims and their advocates.They noted the accusers were deemed credible enough by the Vatican that it sentenced Karadima to a lifetime of “penance and prayer” for his crimes in 2011.

A Chilean judge also found the victims to be credible, saying that while she had to drop criminal charges against Karadima because too much time had passed, proof of his crimes wasn’t lacking.

http://www.thejournal.ie/pope-francis-child-sex-abuse-victims-3806439-Jan2018/

Very odd that he would require "proof", surely belief in the judge would do!!! very severe sentence there too, very cruel thing to do.

And we have already moved the all Ireland final for his visit.....

Here come the bad old days of deference and bowing and scraping, it's going to be painful to step back into the seventies again.

RubyRoss

First and only time I came across that word until your post was Leaving Cert Shakespeare:

"Be thou as chaste as ice, as pure as snow, thou shalt not escape calumny. Get thee to a nunnery, go. Farewell" [Hamlet]

The Rape of Lucretia

Its the key word to this gem :

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qvkISFpEIIk

Bob Harris

So did I. Funnily enough it's the same word as the OP!

kneemos

So he's accusing people of making false accusations straight off the bat and despite a judges and the church's belief to the contrary.

P. Breathnach

kneemos wrote: »

So he's accusing people of making false accusations straight off the bat and despite a judges and the church's belief to the contrary.

Read the quoted piece with a bit more attention. There is a huge leap between the opening paragraph, which is about one person, and the rest of the passage, which is about another.

kneemos

P. Breathnach wrote: »

Read the quoted piece with a bit more attention. There is a huge leap between the opening paragraph, which is about one person, and the rest of the passage, which is about another.

Ah right. Still accusing folk of making false accusations. Given the history of the church I'd be a lot more wary.

Oldtree

RubyRoss wrote: »

First and only time I came across that word until your post was Leaving Cert Shakespeare:

"Be thou as chaste as ice, as pure as snow, thou shalt not escape calumny. Get thee to a nunnery, go. Farewell" [Hamlet]

I remember the get thee to the nunnery bit. It was explained to me at the time that a nunnery was a brothel in them there days, no idea if that's true or not.

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1

Oldtree wrote: »

I remember the get thee to the nunnery bit. It was explained to me at the time that a nunnery was a brothel in them there days, no idea if that's true or not.

It not so much meant a brothel but was a sometimes used slang word for one, as well as having the more conventional use as a convent.

Calumny is rarely used today certainly but appears at the end of the Sermon on the Mount "when people speak all kinds of calumny against you".

Your Face

I see your calumny and raise you a cause célèbre.

Oldtree

Mason Numerous Gourd wrote: »

It not so much meant a brothel but was a sometimes used slang word for one, as well as having the more conventional use as a convent.

Yes, it was explained to me that it was Elizabethan slang and that was the context it was used in Hamlet was intended to be a brothel.

Mason Numerous Gourd wrote: »

Calumny is rarely used today certainly but appears at the end of the Sermon on the Mount "when people speak all kinds of calumny against you".

I wonder how many people would know that, or like me, even the meaning of the word?

Oldtree

Your Face wrote: »

I see your calumny and raise you a cause célèbre.

I'll take your 'cause célèbre' and raise you 'There's no such thing as bad publicity' :P

Oldtree

P. Breathnach wrote: »

Read the quoted piece with a bit more attention. There is a huge leap between the opening paragraph, which is about one person, and the rest of the passage, which is about another.

Just realised I did not include a piece of the article which I had intended to, in my op that is kinda important within the context of my op.

from the op:

Francis said that until he sees proof that Bishop Juan Barros was complicit in covering up the sex crimes of the Reverend Fernando Karadima, such accusations against Barros are “all Calumny”.

The pope’s remarks drew shock from Chileans and immediate rebuke from victims and their advocates.They noted the accusers were deemed credible enough by the Vatican that it sentenced Karadima to a lifetime of “penance and prayer” for his crimes in 2011.

A Chilean judge also found the victims to be credible, saying that while she had to drop criminal charges against Karadima because too much time had passed, proof of his crimes wasn’t lacking.

This bit should have been included that clarifies my point.

Patricio Navia, a political science professor at Diego Portales University in Santiago, said Francis had gone much further than Chilean bishops in acknowledging the sexual abuse scandal, which many Chileans appreciated.

“Then right before leaving, Francis turns around and says: ‘By the way, I don’t think Barros is guilty. Show me some proof,’” Navia said, adding that the comment will probably erase any goodwill the pope had won over the issue.

FizzleSticks

This post has been deleted.

Fann Linn

Oldtree wrote: »

It means "the making of false and defamatory statements about someone in order to damage their reputation; slander."



http://www.thejournal.ie/pope-francis-child-sex-abuse-victims-3806439-Jan2018/

Very odd that he would require "proof", surely belief in the judge would do!!! very severe sentence there too, very cruel thing to do.

And we have already moved the all Ireland final for his visit.....

Here come the bad old days of deference and bowing and scraping, it's going to be painful to step back into the seventies again.

Pettifoggery if ever I saw it.

riffmongous

Oldtree wrote: »

Yes, it was explained to me that it was Elizabethan slang and that was the context it was used in Hamlet was intended to be a brothel.

Elizabethan slang being used in a play about a Danish king? Shakey wasn't much of a fan of verisimilitude

Oldtree

riffmongous wrote: »

Elizabethan slang being used in a play about a Danish king? Shakey wasn't much of a fan of verisimilitude

I guess he knew his audience allowing him to survive the vicissitudes of life at the time.

I'm learning far too many new words that I will never be able to use in context again, it feels somewhat like returning to school!

Junkyard Tom

You learned an old word. A new word would be 'facepalm'.

Soribowda.

Oldtree

Junkyard Tom wrote: »

You learned an old word. A new word would be 'facepalm'.

Soribowda.

I newly learned an old word

But not as new as "worstest"!

Oldtree

Mea culpa,
mea culpa,
mea not so maxima culpa!

When is an apology not any apology?

Pope testy and in pain! Aw the poor oul' segosha....

But while the pope said he was sorry for his choice of words and tone of voice when he testily answered a reporter's question last Thursday in Chile, he also said he was certain that the prelate, Juan Barros, was innocent.

"I have to apologise," the pope told reporters aboard the plane returning to Rome from a week-long trip to Chile and Peru, saying he realised he had "wounded many people who were abused".

"I apologise to them if I hurt them without realising it, but it was a wound that I inflicted without meaning to," he said. "It pains me very much."

https://www.rte.ie/news/2018/0122/934967-pope-in-lima/

Ficheall

If memory serves, in Disney's "Hunchback of Notre-Dame", Judge Frollo uses it too: "Why invite their calumny and consternation - stay in here, away in here..."
Great song.

Oldtree

Ficheall wrote: »

If memory serves, in Disney's "Hunchback of Notre-Dame", Judge Frollo uses it too: "Why invite their calumny and consternation - stay in here, away in here..."
Great song.

In the original 1939 Hunchback of Notre-Dame the most poignant words spoken by the wonderful actor Charles Laughton were:
"Wata Esmerelda, wata..."

http://www.tcm.com/mediaroom/video/215814/Hunchback-of-Notre-Dame-The-Movie-Clip-Water-.html

Doctors room ghost

The only thing I learned today is that the cheap paracetamol you get in a pound shop aren’t worth a hat of sh1te for a bad headache.still have it the bastid

Oldtree

Doctors room ghost wrote: »

The only thing I learned today is that the cheap paracetamol you get in a pound shop aren’t worth a hat of sh1te for a bad headache.still have it the bastid

Thought you had to be a pharmacy to sell paracetamol. Maby they sold you sweets. Try a cup of sweet tea and a cool facecloth on the brow.

Doctors room ghost

Oldtree wrote: »

Thought you had to be a pharmacy to sell paracetamol. Maby they sold you sweets. Try a cup of sweet tea and a cool facecloth on the brow.

No you can get paracetamol anywhere they have them in shops filling station etc.there is some thing where you have to be 18 and can only get 1 box but you can get them.hopefully it will be gone in the morning

Oldtree

Doctors room ghost wrote: »

No you can get paracetamol anywhere they have them in shops filling station etc.there is some thing where you have to be 18 and can only get 1 box but you can get them.hopefully it will be gone in the morning

Maby it's the amount of paracetamol in the tablets is low. I usually take 2 tabs amounting to 1,000mg of paracetamol.

Oldtree

Suddenly there is "new information". Hmmmm well strike me down with a bold of lightening. Guess the third world isn't so far away from the first world after all, and seems to warrent mattering.

Pope Francis is sending the church’s top investigator on sexual abuse to Chile to look into allegations against a bishop accused of covering up clergy crimes against minors there, the Vatican said on Tuesday.

A statement said the envoy, Archbishop Charles Scicluna of Malta, was being dispatched after “new information” had emerged about Bishop Juan Barros of the Chilean city of Osorno.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/world/pope-francis-sends-envoy-to-chile-to-investigate-abuse-cover-up-1.3374239

baylah17

Oldtree wrote: »

Suddenly there is "new information". Hmmmm well strike me down with a bold of lightening. Guess the third world isn't so far away from the first world after all, and seems to warrent mattering.



https://www.irishtimes.com/news/world/pope-francis-sends-envoy-to-chile-to-investigate-abuse-cover-up-1.3374239

Presumably he is sending him armed with a brush and a few buckets of whitewash!

Thinkingaboutit

Oldtree wrote: »

It means "the making of false and defamatory statements about someone in order to damage their reputation; slander."



http://www.thejournal.ie/pope-francis-child-sex-abuse-victims-3806439-Jan2018/

Very odd that he would require "proof", surely belief in the judge would do!!! very severe sentence there too, very cruel thing to do.

And we have already moved the all Ireland final for his visit.....

Here come the bad old days of deference and bowing and scraping, it's going to be painful to step back into the seventies again.

PF's advocacy for a former Chilean military bishop (too toxic for the Chilean army) who is accused by some of Karadima's victims of actually watching molestation, not just the generic cover-up and move job, has been deeply disturbing (but to form given how he personally jeered Chilean Catholics who went to Rome to protest at the Bp Barros transfer). Pope Benedict created a working Curial system to laicise pervert priests, which Francis, in the case of Inzoli (laicised under BXVI, restored by the present Pope to the priesthood and ecclesial penalties only partly restored when Inzoli was imprisoned) and others, has reversed, contrary to his loud rhetoric. It is isn't really surprising given how the St Gallen Group which included Cardinal Danneels (tried personally to dissuade a victim from reporting an abusive bishop) and the late Cardinal Cormac Murphy-O'Connor, who all campaigned for Bergoglio, were expert (or inexpert) at protecting abusers. The resignation of victims from an oversight panel showed the falsity of Bergoglian rhetoric.

The rotting, poisoned fruit of V2 are truly disgusting, for Barros was a product of a disorderly post V2 seminary. A Maltese investigator was appointed, a few ago, someone who has a good record with documenting the monstrously perverted Legionaries of Christ founder, but that seems like damage control after the deep offence created in Chile.

Calumny is a word beloved by the clerical cover-up crew.

sbsquarepants

Sentenced to lifetime of penance and prayer, for a few measely child rapes?
Tough regime.
That Vatican is worse than North Korea!:eek:

Oldtree

Vatican revives pope's sexual abuse panel

Nine new members were added to the panel, which had come under fire from two high-profile members, former sex abuse victims who quit at what they saw as a lack of reforms and obstruction at the highest level of the Catholic Church

Well now, well now......... Same old "sorry" story.
Says it all really. Do they really expect us to believe that this is a genuine effort on their part or simply a positive PR exercise after the chilean fiasco.

Or am I committing a calumny!

Article mentions Bishop Juan Barros briefly.

https://www.rte.ie/news/2018/0218/941563-pope-francis/