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Apple says it will pay a $38 billion tax bill to move foreign money back to the US

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  • Registered Users Posts: 29,071 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    The money has been in America all along, it's an accountancy trick. Some probably will move more monies towards their American accounts, as money truly does follow the path of least resistance, but the possibility of European tax harmonisation could very well be a bigger issue for us, in regards this issue. I'm not convinced this will move many facilities back to America either, some might go, but it's really all about the capital and profit maximisation, and strangely, just sometimes, moving a facility isn't the best approach, i.e. why move the facility, when you can do a little accountancy tricks and just move the capital? It will be interesting to watch this though to see what actully happens, and in the game of politics, watch out for the political points scoring and spin of course!


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,202 ✭✭✭Tazz T


    I'm shocked more people didn't see this coming. I have been debating this with people for over a year who say we can't take the money or they'll move out of Ireland.

    It was foregone conclusion, Trump was going to change the law to get that money (a one-time repatriation tax of 15.5%) if we didn't take it and just before this announcement they also announced that they're opening a massive new data centre in the US with plans to invest hundreds of billions over there. This is the beginning of the end for Apple in Ireland and to think we've paid million fighting not to take the money (and still are).

    I feel sorry for the workers at the Cork plant who right now think they're getting a 2k bonus out of this. That's just a sweetener before the redundancies start.

    We're eejits.


  • Registered Users Posts: 29,071 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    Tazz T wrote:
    It was foregone conclusion, Trump was going to change the law to get that money (a one-time repatriation tax of 15.5%) if we didn't take it and just before this announcement they also announced that they're opening a new data in the US. This is the beginning of the end for Apple in Ireland and to think we've paid million fighting not to take the money (and still are).


    Maybe, maybe not, again, the most profitable way is sometimes leave the facilities where they are, and just move the capital. The republican party have just removed a barrier for doing that. I worked for an American corporation, in its 40 years of being here, the facility has never turned a profit!


  • Registered Users Posts: 740 ✭✭✭Aka Ishur


    George Bush Jr did a 'one time' repatriation tax of 5.5% during his administration so odds are companies go back to status quo until the next 'one time' happens.


  • Site Banned Posts: 406 ✭✭Pepefrogok


    Aka Ishur wrote: »
    George Bush Jr did a 'one time' repatriation tax of 5.5% during his administration so odds are companies go back to status quo until the next 'one time' happens.

    Apple have also said they will invest over 30bil over the next five years in facilities and create 20,000 jobs in America citing trumps tax plan as reason for doing so.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 29,071 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    Pepefrogok wrote:
    Apple have also said they will invest over 30bil over the next five years in facilities and create 20,000 jobs in America citing trumps tax plan as reason for doing so.


    Be aware of the spin! These announcements are highly questionable, corporations have a tendency to change their tune over time, when their accountants figure out better way to maximise their profits. Manufacturing jobs more than likely will not return to America in great numbers, it tends to interfere with plan 'profit maximisation', they might get a few low paid service sector jobs though such as call centres etc, nothing like a bit of 'increasing worker insecurity', it's good for us, apparently!


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,202 ✭✭✭Tazz T


    Pepefrogok wrote: »
    Apple have also said they will invest over 30bil over the next five years in facilities and create 20,000 jobs in America citing trumps tax plan as reason for doing so.


    That's 350 billion

    https://techcrunch.com/2018/01/17/apple-pledges-350-billion-investment-in-us-economy-over-next-five-years/?ncid=mobilenavtrend


  • Site Banned Posts: 406 ✭✭Pepefrogok




  • Registered Users Posts: 3,202 ✭✭✭Tazz T


    More like MIPA


  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 38,157 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    Pepefrogok wrote: »
    Wow, trump really is going to MAGA!
    Tazz T wrote: »
    More like MIPA

    Mod: Less of this type of one-liner please.

    We sat again for an hour and a half discussing maps and figures and always getting back to that most damnable creation of the perverted ingenuity of man - the County of Tyrone.

    H. H. Asquith



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  • Registered Users Posts: 5,336 ✭✭✭Mr.Micro


    Well if it does happen, it shows the naivety of the Irish State. A loss of 14 billion plus all the costs of fighting the EU to date. Will Apple settle its bill if it decides to leave, ah Shure your grand.

    Big corporations have to look to the long term, post Trump and plan for that. Do they all return to the US and take the hit, massive wage bills, huge production and labour costs or stay put?


  • Registered Users Posts: 28,145 ✭✭✭✭drunkmonkey


    Trump will do a second term if he wants, not sure he will want to though. Democrats are still in denial they even lost. Think those US companies are safe moving back. Ireland's not exactly cheap for labour or cost of living.


  • Registered Users Posts: 29,071 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    Trump will do a second term if he wants, not sure he will want to though. Democrats are still in denial they even lost. Think those US companies are safe moving back. Ireland's not exactly cheap for labour or cost of living.

    oh im expecting trump to do a second term, the democrats are in a mess. its very strange to see the amount of people that think metrics such as the stock market are a good measure of the health of the economy. there is evidence to show reducing corporation tax doesnt always increase the amount of jobs, i do suspect corporations will just switch profits into accounts whereby the new tax rates apply, as i said above, im more concerned about tax harmonisation across the eu.


  • Registered Users Posts: 18,358 ✭✭✭✭Bass Reeves


    Mr.Micro wrote: »
    Well if it does happen, it shows the naivety of the Irish State. A loss of 14 billion plus all the costs of fighting the EU to date. Will Apple settle its bill if it decides to leave, ah Shure your grand.

    Big corporations have to look to the long term, post Trump and plan for that. Do they all return to the US and take the hit, massive wage bills, huge production and labour costs or stay put?

    If Apple and the Irsh state looses there appeal they will have to still fork out the tax due. Too many are making assumptions based on Apple saying they are paying tax in the US. Apple will still need access to the EU markets so will keep a presence in the EU and Ireland has advantages over other EU states in this.

    Slava Ukrainii



  • Registered Users Posts: 945 ✭✭✭Colonel Claptrap


    Apple repatriating cash is not the same as Apple refusing to pay 14bn tax to Revenue.

    People are confusing two very different issues.


  • Registered Users Posts: 14,140 ✭✭✭✭StringerBell


    The effective rate of tax for Apple in Ireland is so low I would be very, very surprised to see them do anything of significance (forget the spin) in terms of relocating much industry back to the US and specifically out of Ireland.

    The EU plans to bring in harmonisation of corporation tax is of much more concern, that is something we must fight and obviously the EU can't actually make Ireland agree but pressure will be brought.

    "People say ‘go with the flow’ but do you know what goes with the flow? Dead fish."



  • Registered Users Posts: 17,911 ✭✭✭✭VinLieger


    Apple repatriating cash is not the same as Apple refusing to pay 14bn tax to Revenue.

    People are confusing two very different issues.

    Generally people with an agenda you will find who know exactly what yhey are doing but like to play ignorant to be able to say "told ya so!"


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,758 ✭✭✭Laois_Man


    Thought Minister Paschal Donohoe did quite well here under a barrage of criticism at Davos - even if he was just rehashing the well rehearsed and repeatedly used stock answers



    Something small that irritated me: Davide Serra, for someone who is CEO of an investments company, is rather poor at maths, 48 Million tax paid on 22.6 Billion income is not 0.002% - It's 0.2%


  • Registered Users Posts: 18,358 ✭✭✭✭Bass Reeves


    Laois_Man wrote: »
    Thought Minister Paschal Donohoe did quite well here under a barrage of criticism at Davos - even if he was just rehashing the well rehearsed and repeatedly used stock answers



    Something small that irritated me: Davide Serra, for someone who is CEO of an investments company, is rather poor at maths, 48 Million tax paid on 22.6 Billion income is not 0.002% - It's 0.2%

    Oops I think you may have to redo your sums
    22.6 billion is 22600 million so sum is 48/22600= 0.00212398053097% or 0.002 correct to three decimal places

    Looks like Davide Serra can do her sums

    Slava Ukrainii



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,758 ✭✭✭Laois_Man


    Oops I think you may have to redo your sums
    22.6 billion is 22600 million so sum is 48/22600= 0.00212398053097% or 0.002 correct to three decimal places

    Looks like Davide Serra can do her sums

    Opps. I thin you may have to redo your sums
    You don't calculate the percentage that 48 is of 22600 by dividing 22600 by 48!

    And also, Davide Serra is a he!


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