Insurance - it's a scam I tell you

Seve OB

In a nutshell, driving 20+ years. Insurance was €451 in Jan 16 (up from about €370 previous year). Never claimed a cent till April '16 when 2 airbags deployed after I hit a pothole and tyre blewout. Nobody could understand how it happened as there wasn't any damage whatsoever to car.

It's an E-Class merc, so bill was almost €3k to fix. Luckily I had my no claims protected.... yea right.... lol

So renewal comes around Jan 17 renewal was €615... a hike of 36% :eek: Of course I got my full no claims discount but they hiked the pre discount cost right up.

I ring around for quotes, but get a pain because I have a claim, quotes are stupid or they point blank refuse to quote me. My no claims protection means nothing and none of them care about it. Seems if you have a claim (with so called protection) you are really stuck with your initial company

Anyway, renewal is in for 2018. now €678. another 10.5% increase on last year and now a 50% increase on my original quote 2 years ago.

but i want to know if they are shafting me so I go to the companies website (it is done direct, no broker) for a quote and stick in every single detail as it is on my renewal, with the following changes
i made up a name,
didn't enter my reg, but correct car chosen from list
address 2 doors up from me
didnt give them my driver number
different email address
different phone number

and of course I told them i had no claims... because i had my claims fully protected on renewal

Comparable quote - - - €450. :mad:

I mean there has to be a case here they are required to answer because that is IMO anyway, a clear cut case of overcharging.

I might give them a buzz over next day or 2 and discuss it with them to see what they have to say for themselves

SteM

The phantom quote you got was for new business, they'll generally discount for new business from drivers with no recent claims imo. That price would just go up in the second and third years.

JeffKenna

Same happened with me. Got quoted €600, went online and the same quote came out at €350. Just rang them up with the two quotes and asked them to explain the difference. They couldn't so they offered me the reduced quote.

Seve OB

JeffKenna wrote: »

Same happened with me. Got quoted €600, went online and the same quote came out at €350. Just rang them up with the two quotes and asked them to explain the difference. They couldn't so they offered me the reduced quote.

but had you a claim?

Seve OB

SteM wrote: »

The phantom quote you got was for new business, they'll generally discount for new business from drivers with no recent claims imo. That price would just go up in the second and third years.

yea but by 50%?

SteM

Seve OB wrote: »

yea but by 50%?

Why not if they want the new business? I could see it. It'd go up at the next renewal anyway.

Del2005

Seve OB wrote: »

In a nutshell, driving 20+ years. Insurance was €451 in Jan 16 (up from about €370 previous year). Never claimed a cent till April '16 when 2 airbags deployed after I hit a pothole and tyre blewout. Nobody could understand how it happened as there wasn't any damage whatsoever to car.

It's an E-Class merc, so bill was almost €3k to fix. Luckily I had my no claims protected.... yea right.... lol

So renewal comes around Jan 17 renewal was €615... a hike of 36% :eek: Of course I got my full no claims discount but they hiked the pre discount cost right up.

I ring around for quotes, but get a pain because I have a claim, quotes are stupid or they point blank refuse to quote me. My no claims protection means nothing and none of them care about it. Seems if you have a claim (with so called protection) you are really stuck with your initial company

Anyway, renewal is in for 2018. now €678. another 10.5% increase on last year and now a 50% increase on my original quote 2 years ago.

but i want to know if they are shafting me so I go to the companies website (it is done direct, no broker) for a quote and stick in every single detail as it is on my renewal, with the following changes
i made up a name,
didn't enter my reg, but correct car chosen from list
address 2 doors up from me
didnt give them my driver number
different email address
different phone number

and of course I told them i had no claims... because i had my claims fully protected on renewal

Comparable quote - - - €450. :mad:

I mean there has to be a case here they are required to answer because that is IMO anyway, a clear cut case of overcharging.

I might give them a buzz over next day or 2 and discuss it with them to see what they have to say for themselves

The 2nd quote is BS because you omitted the claim, even with the protected NCD you made a claim which means that you have to inform the company. Even windscreen claims have to be declared when renewing. What is the new business quote if you include the claim for €3k?

As you have found out you can protect your claims with your current insurer only, NCD has no legal standing so the companies can put any contributions they want on them.

Seve OB

Del2005 wrote: »

The 2nd quote is BS because you omitted the claim, even with the protected NCD you made a claim which means that you have to inform the company. Even windscreen claims have to be declared when renewing. What is the new business quote if you include the claim for €3k?

As you have found out you can protect your claims with your current insurer only, NCD has no legal standing so the companies can put any contributions they want on them.

I know that. I did it purely for comparative purposes.

hi_im_fil

But your ncb protection is to protect the discount you get. It does not protect the price. The insurance company is correct to adjust the pre ncb discount price based on your claim information.

grogi

Seve OB wrote: »

In a nutshell, driving 20+ years. Insurance was €451 in Jan 16 (up from about €370 previous year). Never claimed a cent till April '16 when 2 airbags deployed after I hit a pothole and tyre blewout. Nobody could understand how it happened as there wasn't any damage whatsoever to car.

It's an E-Class merc, so bill was almost €3k to fix. Luckily I had my no claims protected.... yea right.... lol

So renewal comes around Jan 17 renewal was €615... a hike of 36% :eek: Of course I got my full no claims discount but they hiked the pre discount cost right up.

If you didn't have your NCB protected, it would be ~€1300. A hike to €615 is actually very little - in line with general increase of insurance price: my renewal went from €550 to €680 without any claim in between.

_Brian

It’s all a scam.
Few years ago my fully comp was €385, been steadily increasing year after year, just two weeks ago another €80 for no reason. Is at €610 now. Never had a claim and have a full licence 25+ years.
46 year old father of two, driving a €5k worth of car. Hardly high risk

grogi

_Brian wrote: »

It’s all a scam.
Few years ago my fully comp was €385, been steadily increasing year after year, just two weeks ago another €80 for no reason. Is at €610 now. Never had a claim and have a full licence 25+ years.
46 year old father of two, driving a €5k worth of car. Hardly high risk

There is a very simple reason - compensation culture.

Sue Pa Key Pa

_Brian wrote: »

It’s all a scam.
Few years ago my fully comp was €385, been steadily increasing year after year, just two weeks ago another €80 for no reason. Is at €610 now. Never had a claim and have a full licence 25+ years.
46 year old father of two, driving a €5k worth of car. Hardly high risk

€385 would hardly cover the cost of a windscreen. They were unsustainable levels of premium. Today's prices are too dear, I'll agree, but the % increase from the old to the new makes it look worse

JeffKenna

Seve OB wrote: »

but had you a claim?

Nope, 16 years driving and never had a claim.

Cost just seems to increase each year for no apparent reason.

Wibbs

Sue Pa Key Pa wrote: »

€385 would hardly cover the cost of a windscreen. They were unsustainable levels of premium. Today's prices are too dear, I'll agree, but the % increase from the old to the new makes it look worse

I'd agree with this S. When prices were very low in general I remember a discussion with my broker at the time when I was bitching about my premium costs, which because of the car in question were always high. He told me that yes my premium was higher(900 quid IIRC), but was actually far more realistic as far as cover was concerned and that the low prices everyone was quoting were a disaster waiting to happen. He was an English lad who had many years experience outside our market and as an outsider I suppose it gave him a different angle. Though I heard others in the business sharing concerns that the race to the bottom on prices was a bad thing.

It seems the pendulum has swung the other way as these things will tend to. Insurers are far more twitchy, overly twitchy, wary of the same thing happening again, so prices have gone higher than they should be and certain segments like older cars are being squeezed out*.



*On the latter older cars angle I can't see any government agency pushing for change there, regardless of how the insurance industry feels. The economy would prefer if everyone was getting into PCP's and getting a new car every three or four years. The car industry from manufacturers to dealers certainly prefers that. Ditto for lending agencies/banks. If most people decided to buy and keep a car for say ten years(easily doable with cars of the last decade) the bottom line would be hit in a big way, as would the tax returns. I'd suggest it's short sighted thinking and incredible waste and environmental impact but that's where we are at the moment and would take quite the cultural shift to change.

grogi

Wibbs wrote: »

The economy would prefer if everyone was getting into PCP's and getting a new car every three or four years. The car industry from manufacturers to dealers certainly prefers that.

The economy doesn't care on what you spent the money... Instead on the car you can spent the same amount on hospitality and for economy figures it's the same.

The government is not allowed to explicitly speaking about keeping money in Ireland - but that's what they should be indirectly encouraging. New car for everyone is helping the economy - but mainly in Germany and France, not here.

theoneeyedman

grogi wrote: »

There is a very simple reason - compensation culture.

Several reasons, not least profit gouging by insurance companies.

Sue Pa Key Pa

Wibbs, I would agree with the majority of your post. However, insurers have no interest if you buy a new car every year or not. They do sppear to be fixated on order cars at the moment but they probably have reasons for doing so. Many moons ago, when I was involved in setting rates for one of the largest insurers here, the criteria was very narrow. Rating areas were Dublin, Cork an Rest of Ireland. Vehicles were rated 1 - 10 and age groups were Under 25 (refuse), 25-30 and over 30. Technology has allowed so much finer data to be collected and insurers now have a clear picture of the profile that is costing them money.

Sometimes they might use the age of car excuse if it is also a factor in a bigger issue they cannot openly state. In other words if there is a high number of claims coming in from 'Gingers' using older cars, they will not reference the ginger aspect for fear of discrimination laws

grogi

Sue Pa Key Pa wrote: »

Wibbs, I would agree with the majority of your post. However, insurers have no interest if you buy a new car every year or not. They do sppear to be fixated on order cars at the moment but they probably have reasons for doing so. Many moons ago, when I was involved in setting rates for one of the largest insurers here, the criteria was very narrow. Rating areas were Dublin, Cork an Rest of Ireland. Vehicles were rated 1 - 10 and age groups were Under 25 (refuse), 25-30 and over 30. Technology has allowed so much finer data to be collected and insurers now have a clear picture of the profile that is costing them money.

Sometimes they might use the age of car excuse if it is also a factor in a bigger issue they cannot openly state. In other words if there is a high number of claims coming in from 'Gingers' using older cars, they will not reference the ginger aspect for fear of discrimination laws

I have noticed that the insurance engines gather some more info about the car, not only the age. For instance when the car was purchased.

I hope that this is going to be used to filtered out the policies that have high potential of being costly...

Reati

Seve OB wrote: »

In a nutshell, driving 20+ years....

and you only realized it a scam now! Ah, joking aside though it's maddness.

Example, I was a named driver on a 1.2 for years till i moved out of the family place.

Got a good job and some money together bought a very nice 2L 185bhp car. Was 29. Went to a few places and they were like I'm mad, be massive insurance cost etc yet due to perceived no driving experience.

I was quoted #850. My mother, driving 25 years in a 1.2 box yolk was ~600 (up from like 290 a few years ago). It's a load of nonsense.

Sue Pa Key Pa

grogi wrote: »

I have noticed that the insurance engines gather some more info about the car, not only the age. For instance when the car was purchased.

I hope that this is going to be used to filtered out the policies that have high potential of being costly...

It's only hearsay from discussions within the business, but I'm told that even the colour of the car will affect your rating profile. When you enter your reg number in to the quote engine, that information is easily extracted

The often quoted phrase here that insurers "pluck figures from their arse" couldn't be further from the truth. Having said that, the vast range of information collected has to skew results on occasion

Wheety

Just tried a quote for myself. 37, 4 years full licence. 5+ years no claims.

€467. Around the same as last year. '07 car

Seve OB

Wheety wrote: »

Just tried a quote for myself. 37, 4 years full licence. 5+ years no claims.

€467. Around the same as last year. '07 car

thats a very good quote

grogi

Sue Pa Key Pa wrote: »

It's only hearsay from discussions within the business, but I'm told that even the colour of the car will affect your rating profile. When you enter your reg number in to the quote engine, that information is easily extracted

And that is absolutely understandable for me. A grey car is less visible on the cloudy day than an orange one, hence is a higher risk...

Wheety

Seve OB wrote: »

thats a very good quote

That's with Aviva. You also save a bit if you have house insurance with them.

I was really expecting it to jump up after reading what everyone has been saying over the past year and the fact my car is now over 10 years old.

I'm not due for renewal yet but just tried the quote online. Hopefully nothing changes over the next few months.

Sue Pa Key Pa

grogi wrote:

And that is absolutely understandable for me. A grey car is less visible on the cloudy day than an orange one, hence is a higher risk...

That would be a problem for the car hitting you, which is not an issue for your own insurers. It's more a case of red or black profiling a risk taker and green a steady Eddie sort of person. Don't know if it bears out in the stats

Seve OB

Update. I called them. Got a hundred quid off.

Fanny Wank

theoneeyedman wrote: »

Several reasons, not least profit gouging by insurance companies.

So these profits you speak of, where have they been the past few years?

ravima

Steve,

I would be inclined to write to whoever is in charge of complaints. Put your case and ask for explanation. They will have to respond to you!