How to Bleed a Firebird S 50/90..?

Suckit

My mother got oil today, after it ran out on Friday, when the fuel arrived she asked the driver if he would bleed it, he said that they do not do that anymore and left.

She rang me and asked if i would have a look at it, but i know nothing about them.
I came anyway to see if i could help at all.
I read this http://thehelpfulengineer.com/index.php/2012/04/bleeding-a-firebird-popular-90-oil-boiler/

And it is slightly different looking but the Allen screw is there. So i loosened the screw and nothing happened. Re-tightened the screw and decide to ask on here. I see an older thread, and it does say to just loosen the Bleed screw.

If somebody could explain it like i am 5..
Do i turn the three switches off at the top?

Then leaving everything off, loosen the allen screw and wait for oil to leak through?

Then tighten it back up, turn it on and press the big red button?

BrokenArrows

How long did you wait after opening unscrewing the nut?

Suckit

BrokenArrows wrote: »

How long did you wait after opening unscrewing the nut?

About 30 seconds to a minute before i got nervous. Was not sure I was doing it right.

A few minutes ago i loosened the screw and presses the red button a few times and maybe left it on for about 1 minute+, and whilst it made the sound, no oil came out nor did it stay on.

I tightened it again just there.

BrokenArrows

Suckit wrote: »

About 30 seconds to a minute before i got nervous. Was not sure I was doing it right.

A few minutes ago i loosened the screw and presses the red button a few times and maybe left it on for about 1 minute+, and whilst it made the sound, no oil came out nor did it stay on.

I tightened it again just there.

im not sure if your boiler is gravity fed or pump fed. Im assuming because nothing flowed for that long its probably pump fed.

After opening the bleed valve you should try and start the boiler. If its pump fed then it should try and pull some fuel down the line and the bleed valve should then work. Make sure you have something to catch any oil that comes out through the valve.

Suckit

BrokenArrows wrote: »

im not sure if your boiler is gravity fed or pump fed. Im assuming because nothing flowed for that long its probably pump fed.

After opening the bleed valve you should try and start the boiler. If its pump fed then it should try and pull some fuel down the line and the bleed valve should then work. Make sure you have something to catch any oil that comes out through the valve.

I have a dish underneath. I think it is pump fed.

So if i unscrew the screw, then i just keep pressing the red button until oil starts dripping out?

Suckit

I have loosened the Allen screw, removed a nut from below (that somebody else told me i should) and pressed the red button to fire up a few times, and it has made no difference. This time i left both screws off for roughly 2-3 minutes.
Should it take this long? Could it take longer?

I have no idea if i am doing the correct thing, or how long to do it for if i am.

agusta

How many litres of oil did you get?
How far away is the oil tank
What height is the bottom of the tank above the ground

bonzodog2

You should have a filter close to the boiler, Try slackening off the input side (put a dish under to catch drips), then try the red button up to 10 times, after oil comes out. Hold it down for 10 seconds then release.

Suckit

bonzodog2 wrote: »

You should have a filter close to the boiler, Try slackening off the input side (put a dish under to catch drips), then try the red button up to 10 times, after oil comes out. Hold it down for 10 seconds then release.

I have a dish underneath, I am not sure what you mean "slackening off the input side"?

I have now two screws i am using. One underneath and the Allen screw.
I am only loosening the Allen screw, but removing the nut underneath.

10 times. Okay, maybe that is where i am going wrong, i have stopped after around 5. I was not sure how many times to try/how long to expect to wait.

I do not want to leave here like this, as it is cold in the house and she'll be freezing tonight, so i will keep at it, as long as i am (hope i am) doing it correctly.

agusta

Suckit wrote: »

I have a dish underneath, I am not sure what you mean "slackening off the input side"?

I have now two screws i am using. One underneath and the Allen screw.
I am only loosening the Allen screw, but removing the nut underneath.

10 times. Okay, maybe that is where i am going wrong, i have stopped after around 5. I was not sure how many times to try/how long to expect to wait.

I do not want to leave here like this, as it is cold in the house and she'll be freezing tonight, so i will keep at it, as long as i am (hope i am) doing it correctly.

If you keep pressing the reset button, you are in danger of damaging the oil pump on the burner. if its an riello rdb burner its written on the casing to only press the reset button twice.if not it says it in the manual.Its more than likely an air lock in the oil line.Can you answer the questions in post 8?, what make and model burner?

bonzodog2

agusta wrote: »

If you keep pressing the reset button, you are in danger of damaging the oil pump on the burner. if its an riello rdb burner its written on the casing to only press the reset button twice.if not it says it in the manual.Its more than likely an air lock in the oil line.im an oil service technician.Can you answer the questions in post 8?, what make and model burner?

OK, I may be out of date on modern burner tech. But slackening off the nut on the input pipe to the filter (and then re-tightening) can only help.

agusta

bonzodog2 wrote: »

OK, I may be out of date on modern burner tech. But slackening off the nut on the input pipe to the filter (and then re-tightening) can only help.

Do you mean slackening off the riello flexible hose nut off the oil pump on the burner

Suckit

agusta wrote: »

If you keep pressing the reset button, you are in danger of damaging the oil pump on the burner. if its an riello rdb burner its written on the casing to only press the reset button twice.if not it says it in the manual.Its more than likely an air lock in the oil line.im an oil service technician.Can you answer the questions in post 8?, what make and model burner?

:eek:
I just pressed it about 12 times. No response at all - no oil coming.. (The noise starts and it clicks in as if it goes up a level, then clicks off). I took photos of it too.

It is a Riello RDB burner
Firebird S (White Cased) 90
R.B.L. RDB2.2 Firebird c26 90K

Sorry, did not see the questions.

How many litres of oil did you get? 500 Litres
How far away is the oil tank? Roughly 30 feet maybe 30 - 40 feet.
What height is the bottom of the tank above the ground? About 2 -3 feet

agusta

Suckit wrote: »

:eek:
I just pressed it about 12 times. No response at all - no oil coming.. (The noise starts and it clicks in as if it goes up a level, then clicks off). I took photos of it too.

It is a Riello RDB burner
Firebird S (White Cased) 90
R.B.L. RDB2.2 Firebird c26 90K

Sorry, did not see the questions.

How many litres of oil did you get? 500 Litres
How far away is the oil tank? Roughly 30 feet maybe 30 - 40 feet.
What height is the bottom of the tank above the ground? About 2 -3 feet

500 litres is good
Not much gravity head tank only 2 feet above the ground.There should be enough though
Double check that the valve on the oil tank is fully open..
Can you post a picture of the burner and what screw you have loosened

Suckit

agusta wrote: »

500 litres is good
Not much gravity head tank only 2 feet above the ground.There should be enough though
Double check that the valve on the oil tank is fully open..
Can you post a picture of the burner and what screw you have loosened

Will upload them now

Suckit

Sorry for the delay, it is very awkward to get into.

https://imgur.com/a/TO9D7

First image circled is the Allen Screw that i am loosening, the 2nd last image is the nut i was removing.

The tank is on bricks in a dip, so i suppose it is more accurate to say that the tank is probably only 1 foot or less above ground level. But it is almost 3 feet above the ground on which it stands, if that makes sense.

agusta

ok.
If you dont get this going tonight,put back in the grub screw on the side of the pump.make sure the sealing washer is on the grub screw.also refit the nut on the bottom.if in dount turn off the valve at the oil tank.
Your oil tank appears to be too low to clear the air lock in the line[if all valves are open incl firevalve fully open].The oil needs abit of help to get it through.i use a suction pump to do this.
If you have tried to bleed it 10 times so far ,its unlikely the suction in the pump is able to pull the oil through at this stage.you did do it the correct way.your probably will have to get a service technician to pull it through with a suction pump

Ideally the oil tank should be raised higher or a tigerloop fitted

Suckit

agusta wrote: »

ok.
If you dont get this going tonight,put back in the grub screw on the side of the pump.make sure the sealing washer is on the grub screw.also refit the nut on the bottom.if in dount turn off the valve at the oil tank

Is the grub screw the one i was calling the Allen screw?
I never took that out, just loosened it.

Have no idea if there is an valve switch on the tank, i never saw one, and i could not see anything out there tonight it is pitch black. I have retightened the grub screw (if that is the one) and the nut on the bottom is back on.
I put both back on every time i left it, should i have left them open?

I think an engineer tomorrow will be in order, I will try for one more hour, then call it a night.

agusta

Ya,make sure they are both tight. Only thing if you keep pressing the reset button on the burner you could damage the pump.the oil is the lubricant for the pump.

Suckit

agusta wrote: »

Ya,make sure they are both tight. Only thing if you keep pressing the reset button on the burner you could damage the pump.the oil is the lubricant for the pump.

I will try the button two more times altogether, and then call it a night.

Thanks for your help, and everyone else too,Appreciated.

Suckit

How much should it cost, to call out engineer to bleed it, or clean out dirt in the line etc.?

agusta

If the boiler hasnt been serviced in awhile,it would be better value to get a service and get the oil line bled at the same time.Maybe 90 to 100 euro incl service.this should include a new nozzle and a flue gas emissions printout

Suckit

agusta wrote: »

If the boiler hasnt been serviced in awhile,it would be better value to get a service and get the oil line bled at the same time.Maybe 90 to 100 euro incl service.this should include a new nozzle and a flue gas emissions printout

€100 to bleed it....
He has been and gone and said there was some dirt trapped in the pipe, she paid him last night. Said he would come back for a service in June/July.

BrokenArrows

Suckit wrote: »

€100 to bleed it....
He has been and gone and said there was some dirt trapped in the pipe, she paid him last night. Said he would come back for a service in June/July.

Surely he would want to service it now when you're actually using it. Not much need for the boiler in June/July.

agusta

Suckit wrote: »

€100 to bleed it....
He has been and gone and said there was some dirt trapped in the pipe, she paid him last night. Said he would come back for a service in June/July.

I was saying 90 to 100 euro to bleed/clear oil line with a service and a new nozzle and a flue gas analysis printout

Suckit

agusta wrote: »

I was saying 90 to 100 euro to bleed/clear oil line with a service and a new nozzle and a flue gas analysis printout

Yeah, but he charged €100 just to bleed it. Apparently he was in the house less than 10 minutes. My mother was just happy to have it back working.
It stopped working this morning, she could not get it back on.

He came out again and said there was something that he had not noticed before, got it back working for her again and left (no charge).

niallb

Suckit wrote: »

Yeah, but he charged €100 just to bleed it. Apparently he was in the house less than 10 minutes. My mother was just happy to have it back working.
It stopped working this morning, she could not get it back on.

He came out again and said there was something that he had not noticed before, got it back working for her again and left (no charge).

Maybe he reads boards!