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Advice on short term rental

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  • 11-01-2018 8:02pm
    #1
    Roste
    Registered Users Posts: 8 ✭


    Hi
    First time here. Seeking legal advice on a situation.
    We rent a space in our home on airbnb and at the moment have a guest who has booked for two weeks through the official site. After booking he then requested a further week. We agreed to extend the booking privately and agreed the same rate as our listing. We have since discovered that he has been using an electric fan heater 24 hours a day which we are not happy with as it was not mentioned at time of booking. We have advised him that we will honour the Airbnb booking but requested that he vacate at the end of this time. Payment was made in cash for the extra week and nothing was signed. We have advised we will return the payment in full. However he is insisting we cannot 'evict' him as he claims to have tenants rights.
    Can anyone advise us as to what our rights are in such a situation.
    Look forward to being enlightened and educated on th
    Tagged:


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    #2
    ytpe2r5bxkn0c1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 32,688 ✭✭✭✭ytpe2r5bxkn0c1


    What did airbnb say?


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    #3
    Roste
    Registered Users Posts: 8 ✭Roste


    Unfortunately, because the third week was booked privately, they are not able to intervene. We have been in touch with them and they have given as much help as they can.


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    #4
    mrslancaster
    Registered Users Posts: 1,784 ✭✭✭mrslancaster


    From reading many posts on the A&P forum, tenant rights kick in after 6 months. Individuals staying in the same property as the owner are licencees.

    OP I think you would get a lot of help and advice from very knowledgeable posters in Accomodation & Property. There are lots of posters on there with experience about everything to do with property issues - very helpful.

    Best of luck


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    #5
    Roste
    Registered Users Posts: 8 ✭Roste


    Many thanks, we'll give that a go.


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    #6
    dudara
    Registered Users Posts: 33,519 ✭✭✭✭dudara


    Moved to the Accommodation & Property forum

    dudara

    OP - this person is a “licensee” and does not have tenants rights. Give him notice in no uncertain terms that he is to vacate immediately. If he doesn’t leave, next time he’s out, change the locks.


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    #7
    GGTrek
    Registered Users Posts: 834 ✭✭✭GGTrek


    dudara wrote: »
    Moved to the Accommodation & Property forum

    dudara

    OP - this person is a “licensee” and does not have tenants rights. Give him notice in no uncertain terms that he is to vacate immediately. If he doesn’t leave, next time he’s out, change the locks.
    Finally the right answer :D


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    #8
    thereality
    Registered Users Posts: 74 ✭✭thereality


    As Dudura correctly pointed out, someone living in the same house as the owner can never acquire tenant rights. You are supposed to give them reasonable time to vacant the property. Although it is ambiguous as to what is reasonable time. They can't sue you via the RTB. It has to be the small claims court. Although I don't know if they would take this on or would be bothered with it.

    You need to be careful that this guy does not write a bad review about this experience and damage your ratings. I don't know how Airbnb would approach this as you took the booking outside of the site which are they are strongly against

    IMO I think should question if Airbnb is worth the hassle. Someone staying in a spare room is tax free up to €14k per year. Considering how much tax you will pay on the Airbnb bookings, as they are taxable. You might be better taking a lodger for half of the year versus randomers on Airbnb for the entire

    Also I would replace your halldoor lock cylinder with a high security lock, that the keys can't be cut without a code for your own security


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    #9
    Samuel T. Cogley
    Registered Users Posts: 10,684 ✭✭✭✭Samuel T. Cogley


    Still needs 'reasonable' notice. Do not go fecking out possessions on the pavement or anything like that.


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    #10
    Graham
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 17,642 Mod ✭✭✭✭Graham


    Samuel T. Cogley wrote: »
    Still needs 'reasonable' notice. Do not go fecking out possessions on the pavement or anything like that.

    Who would the guest complain to if they were to be deposited on the pavement (the guest and their belongings)?

    Hotels would have no problem escorting somebody from the premises if their behaviour was unacceptable, genuinely curious how this would be different.


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    #11
    Samuel T. Cogley
    Registered Users Posts: 10,684 ✭✭✭✭Samuel T. Cogley


    Graham wrote: »
    Who would the guest complain to if they were to be deposited on the pavement (the guest and their belongings)?

    Hotels would have no problem escorting somebody from the premises if their behaviour was unacceptable, genuinely curious how this would be different.

    They could sue for damage to property through the small claims court. With a laptop etc. it only takes one or two items to be damaged for it to be worth it. The only case on hotels I'm aware of is the Bank of Scotland Case (RBS maybe) where they had to give a guy months notice to vacate a hotel. No misbehaviour there though. That said it's hardly the worst thing in the world running a heater. Those things are about 1Kw so three weeks is about €100, not great but the more proper course would be to just make sure it doesn't happen again or deduct it from the deposit.

    This all comes back to reasonable notice being required. Where the tenant is being anti-social that's different, this isn't anti-social.


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    #12
    Graham
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 17,642 Mod ✭✭✭✭Graham


    Samuel T. Cogley wrote: »
    This all comes back to reasonable notice being required. Where the tenant is being anti-social that's different, this isn't anti-social.

    Guest isn't a tenant but appears to be getting notions that he is.

    What legislation limits the OP to reasonable notice?


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    #13
    Samuel T. Cogley
    Registered Users Posts: 10,684 ✭✭✭✭Samuel T. Cogley


    Graham wrote: »
    Guest isn't a tenant but appears to be getting notions that he is.

    What legislation limits the OP to reasonable notice?

    Caselaw - I ain't going looking for it and I suspect it's unreported so it'd be textbook fun. I potentially agree with your first point.

    Edit: I did go looking for it :pac:
    In Mehta v Royal Bank of Scotland it was held that an occupier of a
    room in a hotel was a contractual licensee and that the agreement
    between the parties was that the licence could be determined on
    ‘reasonable notice’. Mr Mehta was bringing a claim for unlawful
    eviction and the court had to decide what reasonable notice would
    have been. Taking into account the references by the hotel owners
    to Mr Mehta being a ‘long­term occupier’ the court held that a
    period of four months would have constituted reasonable notice

    There is additional caselaw dating back prior to 1937 which would be strongly persuasive here also.


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    #14
    thereality
    Registered Users Posts: 74 ✭✭thereality


    Graham wrote: »
    Guest isn't a tenant but appears to be getting notions that he is.

    What legislation limits the OP to reasonable notice?

    I have never seen the law or the case, that discusses the reasonable notice. It is always quoted in literature and even the citizens info site has reasonable notice on it

    http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/housing/renting_a_home/sharing_accommodation_with_your_landlord.html

    Apparently you can sue a property owner for breach of contract, if they ask you to leave early. You signed up to live there for a week and you are now turning around saying no


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    #15
    Samuel T. Cogley
    Registered Users Posts: 10,684 ✭✭✭✭Samuel T. Cogley


    thereality wrote: »
    I have never seen the law or the case, that discusses the reasonable notice. It is always quoted in literature and even the citizens info site has reasonable notice on it

    http://www.citizensinformation.ie/en/housing/renting_a_home/sharing_accommodation_with_your_landlord.html

    Apparently you can sue a property owner for breach of contract, if they ask you to leave early. You signed up to live there for a week and you are now turning around saying no

    E&W Caselaw would be substituted if there is no Irish authority with about a 99% probability. That or Canada or some other common law jurisdiction. Irish Judges love Canada. :pac:

    Edit: Incidentally I'm not suggesting notice is more than a day or so here, but thereality's point, of which I have no knowledge, might be the real issue.


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    #16
    KellyXX
    Registered Users Posts: 365 ✭✭KellyXX


    Just call the Gardai and tell them there is a guy in your house who WAS paying to stay there and now he won't leave. Ask them to come out and remove him.


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    #17
    Roste
    Registered Users Posts: 8 ✭Roste


    Hey everyone,
    thanks for all your comments. You've been really helpful. We are have more of an idea of how to proceed. We'll keep you posted if anyone is interested.


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    #18
    Samuel T. Cogley
    Registered Users Posts: 10,684 ✭✭✭✭Samuel T. Cogley


    Roste wrote: »
    Hey everyone,
    thanks for all your comments. You've been really helpful. We are have more of an idea of how to proceed. We'll keep you posted if anyone is interested.

    Oh we always are, unless a safe is involved.


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    #19
    Graham
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 17,642 Mod ✭✭✭✭Graham


    Samuel T. Cogley wrote: »
    E&W Caselaw would be substituted if there is no Irish authority with about a 99% probability. That or Canada or some other common law jurisdiction. Irish Judges love Canada. :pac:

    Edit: Incidentally I'm not suggesting notice is more than a day or so here, but thereality's point, of which I have no knowledge, might be the real issue.

    a days notice would probably be both reasonable and a reasonable precaution.

    Personally, I wouldn't be overly concerned about a breach of contract action. It's probably fair to say any sort of legal action is unlikely without the benefit of the RTB picking up the tab.

    OP, you may want to consider why it's necessary for a guest to use a fan heater. If it's the only source of heating for the guest/room, that's something you should address.


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    #20
    Samuel T. Cogley
    Registered Users Posts: 10,684 ✭✭✭✭Samuel T. Cogley


    Graham wrote: »
    a days notice would probably be both reasonable and a reasonable precaution.

    Personally, I wouldn't be overly concerned about a breach of contract action. It's probably fair to say any sort of legal action is unlikely without the benefit of the RTB picking up the tab.

    OP, you may want to consider why it's necessary for a guest to use a fan heater. If it's the only source of heating for the guest/room, that's something you should address.

    It's within the jurisdiction of the small claims court but there is bugger all enforcement AFAIK so I agree with you it's highly unlikely.


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    #21
    Mrs OBumble
    Registered Users Posts: 25,730 ✭✭✭✭Mrs OBumble


    OP, is he is using a piece of equipment which you provided in the room, or did he bring his own in?

    If you provided it, and you want to set limits on when it can be used, then these should be stated up front - were they?

    If not, then why are you letting a room that is so cold that your guest needed to provide his own heating equipment?

    If you want to continue doing AirBnB, then you need to resolve this amicably. All he has to do is tell the truth in his review, and you will look very bad in the eyes of many potential guests.


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    #22
    Roste
    Registered Users Posts: 8 ✭Roste


    Graham wrote: »
    Samuel T. Cogley wrote: »
    E&W Caselaw would be substituted if there is no Irish authority with about a 99% probability. That or Canada or some other common law jurisdiction. Irish Judges love Canada. :pac:

    Edit: Incidentally I'm not suggesting notice is more than a day or so here, but thereality's point, of which I have no knowledge, might be the real issue.

    a days notice would probably be both reasonable and a reasonable precaution.

    Personally, I wouldn't be overly concerned about a breach of contract action. It's probably fair to say any sort of legal action is unlikely without the benefit of the RTB picking up the tab.

    OP, you may want to consider why it's necessary for a guest to use a fan heater. If it's the only source of heating for the guest/room, that's something you should address.
    hi, there is full gas central heating in the room and we have never had anyone complain about being cold before, in fact quite the opposite.


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    #23
    Roste
    Registered Users Posts: 8 ✭Roste


    Mrs OBumble wrote: »
    OP, is he is using a piece of equipment which you provided in the room, or did he bring his own in?

    If you provided it, and you want to set limits on when it can be used, then these should be stated up front - were they?

    If not, then why are you letting a room that is so cold that your guest needed to provide his own heating equipment?

    If you want to continue doing AirBnB, then you need to resolve this amicably. All he has to do is tell the truth in his review, and you will look very bad in the eyes of many potential guests.

    hi, see my reply to the previous comment regarding the heating in the room, and the heater was brought in by the guest without our knowledge or agreement.


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    #24
    thereality
    Registered Users Posts: 74 ✭✭thereality


    Roste wrote: »
    hi, see my reply to the previous comment regarding the heating in the room, and the heater was brought in by the guest without our knowledge or agreement.

    Is he a non-national? In some countries and states it is super easy to get tenancy rights. You literally just have to receive a letter in the property and you are a tenant in some cities in the US.

    I wonder if this guest thought that he could claim tenancy rights after a few weeks and refuse to leave


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    #25
    Roste
    Registered Users Posts: 8 ✭Roste


    thereality wrote: »
    Is he a non-national? In some countries and states it is super easy to get tenancy rights. You literally just have to receive a letter in the property and you are a tenant in some cities in the US.

    I wonder if this guest thought that he could claim tenancy rights after a few weeks and refuse to leave

    Hi, he is an American but I don't think that is his plan. He just thinks he has the right to stay for the extra week even though we have made it clear we do not want him in the property.


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    #26
    dudara
    Registered Users Posts: 33,519 ✭✭✭✭dudara


    Refund (or part refund) him his money along with his notice to quit. That way he cannot claim he has a basis to stay


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    #27
    Fol20
    Registered Users Posts: 3,624 ✭✭✭Fol20


    Ignore what other people are saying about giving him enough notice. It’s a short term let. It’s cheeky of him to use that conatantly 24/7. They are very expensive. As others have mentioned as long as you live in the property he has no rights and you can kick him out straight away. He sounds like a headache when he is trying to claim rights. Hand back his cash and get rid of him


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    #28
    thereality
    Registered Users Posts: 74 ✭✭thereality


    Roste wrote: »
    Hi, he is an American but I don't think that is his plan. He just thinks he has the right to stay for the extra week even though we have made it clear we do not want him in the property.

    I imagine it is exactly his plan. There are horror stories in the US of people letting a spare room on Airbnb and guests claiming tenancy rights. Why would someone buy a heater for a holiday? I would hazard a guess he was in it for the long haul

    I know it is speculation on my part. But it can't be ruled out


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    #29
    Roste
    Registered Users Posts: 8 ✭Roste


    Hi everyone,

    quick update. The unwanted guest has gone. He left with nary a whisper at the end of the original AirBnB let. I think he was probably just pushing his luck hoping we would be scared by his mention of tenants rights and lawyers, etc. little did he know...

    Thanks for all your suggestions and advice, it really came in handy.


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