Speeding fine in Belgium...

galwaytt

...question: any downside to not paying a speeding fine from Belgium (rental car). A 'friend' got a ticket, didn't pay it, not it's doubled. Would this give rise to any issues in future ?

Tbh, not sure how the ticket is being directed to him by authorities anyway, given it was a rental, but that's another issue.....would have thought the rental company would have just paid it & charged him....

bazz26

Usually the rental company just deduct the cost of the fine (plus an admin charge) from the renter's credit card. Or they just wash their hands of it and give the renter's details to the local authorities to pursue if there is a summons issued.

Lodger81

Got fined in France last year on a rental car. Rental company passing the fine on is common practice now, easier to do this then chase payment themselves. Was advised to pay it as mentioned above local authorities may pursue it. Last thing your friend would want is an arrest warrant flagging should they return to Belgium.

2Mad2BeMad

if he ever plans on returning to Belgium
then pay it
if not, then I wouldn't bother

CiniO

bazz26 wrote: »

Usually the rental company just deduct the cost of the fine (plus an admin charge) from the renter's credit card. Or they just wash their hands of it and give the renter's details to the local authorities to pursue if there is a summons issued.

In most countries rental company is not entitled to pay a fine for someone.
All they can do is to give driver's details to authorities, and from that moment it becomes a case between driver and authorities - so rental car company has nothing to do with it anymore.

bear1

CiniO wrote: »

In most countries rental company is not entitled to pay a fine for someone.
All they can do is to give driver's details to authorities, and from that moment it becomes a case between driver and authorities - so rental car company has nothing to do with it anymore.

I don't think that's how it works.
Fine goes to the registered keeper, rental company pays fine and then debit your card for the money back plus a percentage as a fee.
I got clocked once and the rental simply sent me an email and that they will be debiting my card.

CiniO

bear1 wrote: »

I don't think that's how it works.
Fine goes to the registered keeper, rental company pays fine and then debit your card for the money back plus a percentage as a fee.
I got clocked once and the rental simply sent me an email and that they will be debiting my card.

It works like you say in some countries indeed. (Ireland being one).
However most countrie's laws don't allow to issue a fine to anyone else than the driver, so car rental company has no physical ability to pay the fine.

bear1

CiniO wrote: »

It works like you say in some countries indeed. (Ireland being one).
However most countrie's laws don't allow to issue a fine to anyone else than the driver, so car rental company has no physical ability to pay the fine.

Didn't know the latter.

mdebets

2Mad2BeMad wrote: »

if he ever plans on returning to Belgium
then pay it
if not, then I wouldn't bother

Hasn't the cross-border fines initiative not been implemented in Ireland yet, I thought Ireland only had an exemption until last year and that it is implemented by now? All other EU countries have it implemented so that fines can be sent from one EU country to another and it will be enforced like local fines would be.

thecribber

CiniO wrote: »

It works like you say in some countries indeed. (Ireland being one).
However most countrie's laws don't allow to issue a fine to anyone else than the driver, so car rental company has no physical ability to pay the fine.

Physical Ability?...... Are they paralysed from the neck down or something..

Maybe you mean that the system wont allow anyone other than the driver to pay the fine. Physical Ability has nothing to do with that.

bear1

bear1 wrote: »

I don't think that's how it works.
Fine goes to the registered keeper, rental company pays fine and then debit your card for the money back plus a percentage as a fee.
I got clocked once and the rental simply sent me an email and that they will be debiting my card.

Rental company won’t pay a speeding fine as it’s from the police. They will pass on the renters details to the police and charge an admin fee to the renter for doing so. The police are not simply looking for payment, they want to know who was driving the car

If it were a parking charge from a private company or council, the rental company will pay this, then charge this to your card along with an admin fee

But speeding fine they won’t pay, simply pass on the details

CiniO

thecribber wrote: »

Physical Ability?...... Are they paralysed from the neck down or something..

Maybe you mean that the system wont allow anyone other than the driver to pay the fine. Physical Ability has nothing to do with that.

Sorry, my mistake.
By physical ability I meant that system won't allow them to pay the fine.

Fred Swanson

This post has been deleted.

GM228

mdebets wrote: »

Hasn't the cross-border fines initiative not been implemented in Ireland yet, I thought Ireland only had an exemption until last year and that it is implemented by now? All other EU countries have it implemented so that fines can be sent from one EU country to another and it will be enforced like local fines would be.

Implemented in all EU countries now, Ireland, Denmark and the UK implemented in 2017.

conor2469

Deleted User wrote: »

If it were a parking charge from a private company or council, the rental company will pay this, then charge this to your card along with an admin fee

I got a parking ticket on my rental car in France. The local Council contacted the rental company first. The rental company gave the council my details (Charging me for the privilege) and then a week later a fine arrived through my letter box from the French Council. In my case the rental company only charged me an admin fee and the council sent me the fine.

biko

CiniO wrote: »

However most countrie's laws don't allow to issue a fine to anyone else than the driver

Fred Swanson wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

Not that I doubt this but some sources would help.

conor2469

conor2469 wrote: »

I got a parking ticket on my rental car in France. The local Council contacted the rental company first. The rental company gave the council my details (Charging me for the privilege) and then a week later a fine arrived through my letter box from the French Council. In my case the rental company only charged me an admin fee and the council sent me the fine.

Sorry, this is correct. In the in UK the rental company normally will pay a parking fine, but not the rest of Europe. But they will still charge an admin fee

Fred Swanson

This post has been deleted.

StereoSound

I got a speeding fine in Saudi years ago and I didn't pay it. They are pretty strict over there and I'd probably be thrown in jail if I entered that place again lol. This was back 2012.

Steviesol

I never paid a toll in Sicily a few years ago, it has been playing on my mind

ted1

CiniO wrote: »

bazz26 wrote: »

Usually the rental company just deduct the cost of the fine (plus an admin charge) from the renter's credit card. Or they just wash their hands of it and give the renter's details to the local authorities to pursue if there is a summons issued.

In most countries rental company is not entitled to pay a fine for someone.
All they can do is to give driver's details to authorities, and from that moment it becomes a case between driver and authorities - so rental car company has nothing to do with it anymore.

The terms and conditions you sign when renting the car gives them the entitlement to pay for it and charge your card

Fred Swanson

This post has been deleted.

CiniO

ted1 wrote: »

The terms and conditions you sign when renting the car gives them the entitlement to pay for it and charge your card

Maybe terms and conditions you sign with them do, but laws of countries in which you drive don't - so no matter what they sign with you, they can't pay your fine.

CiniO

biko wrote: »

Not that I doubt this but some sources would help.

It's hard to find exact sources, as each country has it's own laws and it would be impossible to show source from each country...


I can describe you how it works in Poland.
In short if someone commits an offence and is caught red-handed by police patrol, then they are pulled over, and offered a fine. They can either accept it and will be required to pay it within 7 days (or instantly in case of non-residents) or they have option to not accept it and chellenge it in court.

In case of speed cameras, etc, police will track registered owner and ask him to admit it was him driving or point the person who was driving. It's policeman's requirement to verify if owner is telling the truth (f.e. if registered owner claims it was him driving, while on the speed camera picture it's obvious there was someone else behind the wheel, then he can be done for making false statements).
In other words, police's job is not just to make sure that fine is paid, but is to make sure that it's the right person being fined.

So it makes it obvious that in case of rental car, it can't be rental company to pay the fine, but it must be the driver.

If you want sources for that, I can put few links, but that would be in Polish so probably not much use here.


Hence in Ireland it works differently, as there is automatic assumption of guilt of registered owner, and it's the registered owner who needs to prove that it wasn't him driving. That's probably what allows rental company to pay the fine and charge the driver directly. Nothing like that operates on the Continent, as no one can be assumed guilty there automatically like here.

Fred Swanson

This post has been deleted.

CiniO

Fred Swanson wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

I remember reading here on boards, that in such case Company director/secretary gets the fine.

They also get the points if they hold driving licence.

ohnonotgmail

CiniO wrote: »

I remember reading here on boards, that in such case Company director/secretary gets the fine.

They also get the points if they hold driving licence.

if the vehicle is registered to a company the company must nominate who was driving and return the FCPN. if they do not do this they will be prosecuted in court and the company will be liable for any fine issued by the court.

CiniO

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

if the vehicle is registered to a company the company must nominate who was driving and return the FCPN. if they do not do this they will be prosecuted in court and the company will be liable for any fine issued by the court.

Question arises what happens if they nominate the driver, but driver refuses to pay the fine?

ohnonotgmail

CiniO wrote: »

Question arises what happens if they nominate the driver, but driver refuses to pay the fine?

that is the drivers problem. Once the company returns the form with the nominated drivers name a new FCPN is issued in the nominated drivers name.

grogi

CiniO wrote: »

In most countries rental company is not entitled to pay a fine for someone.
All they can do is to give driver's details to authorities, and from that moment it becomes a case between driver and authorities - so rental car company has nothing to do with it anymore.

They are making money out of fines. Of course they want to pay it and then hammer the driver with admin costs.

wonski

CiniO wrote: »

Question arises what happens if they nominate the driver, but driver refuses to pay the fine?

The driver goes to court.

Fred Swanson

This post has been deleted.

grogi

Fred Swanson wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

The points will be on file and will be applied when the company eventually gets Irish license.

ohnonotgmail

Fred Swanson wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

if the company doesnt nominate a driver then no points are applied. its a loophole in the current system.

grogi wrote: »

The points will be on file and will be applied when the company eventually gets Irish license.

a company cannot hold a driving licence.

DubDani

As said before, in some countries rental car companies can't pay the fine, but only hand over your details. France, Belgium and the Netherlands being some of them (know as I got tickets out of all 3 countries in the last 10 years). I apparently got a Ticket last year in France. Rental car company sent me a letter with a reference number from the local police and informed me that they provided my details to them. For that privilege they charged me 40 Euro. Fine was to be sent by the council directly to me.

Interestingly never got anything from the french council/police. Maybe they thought it was not worth pursuing someone out of the country, but don't know what happened. Will probably find out next time I enter France. :-)

And to the OP, I would rather pay it now. I am pretty certain that they will continue to pursue it, and with that additional fees will incur.

FrancieBrady

I was working in Germany a few years ago and the guy I was working for drove me across the border into The Netherlands He was stopped and a check showed he owed something around 90 euros in fines for traffic offences in The Netherlands. He was going nowhere until he paid it.

He hadn't been in The Netherlands in 10 years. I was amazed and impressed.

CiniO

Fred Swanson wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

But according to Irish law, vehicle owner is automatically deemed to be driving, unless proven otherwise.

Have a look at this thread:
https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055694869

ohnonotgmail

CiniO wrote: »

But according to Irish law, vehicle owner is automatically deemed to be driving, unless proven otherwise.

Have a look at this thread:
https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055694869

the information in that thread is either wrong or out of date.
if the vehicle is owned by a company are asked to nominate the actual driver as a company cannot hold a licence in its own right .

http://www.odwyersolicitors.ie/speed-cameras-and-driver-penalty-points/

The one loop-hole that arises however, is that if no driver is nominated, then no driver’s licence can be subject to the imposition of penalty points. It is however, the employer company that has the conviction recorded against it and ultimately it is the company that has to pay the fine and presumably a Solicitor to represent them in Court. If that happens, either deliberately or accidently, the driver does not have any penalty points, keeping points off drivers’ licences has become extremely important. This is a flaw in the system as it operates. It effectively means that if there is no nomination, there can be no points. This may sound simple and prove to be the solution to a lot of drivers’ problems but it is not fool proof.

so the company either nominates the actual drivers who then receives a FCPN or the company goes to court, pays a fine, and the penalty points disappear.

GM228

Fred Swanson wrote: »

What happens in Ireland if the Registered owner has no driving licence? Companies would be a good example.

They receive the points if/when they get a licence, does not apply to a body corporate.

GM228

CiniO wrote: »

I remember reading here on boards, that in such case Company director/secretary gets the fine.

They also get the points if they hold driving licence.

This is incorrect CiniO.

rugbyman

i often wonder where people get their ideas from
I say rental companies do not pay speeding fines!!!!
several people on here say they do ,sounding like they know

i have half a dozen from france and from belgium, i paid none

in each case the rental company charged me for giving the info to the police

i received some of the fines by registered post

I still travel there, and i have no idea whether it will come to a hassle situation. I imagine that if stopped at a checkpoint where they put my licence into their computer, i may be in diffs

the chances of getting stopped in a routine check in either country are extremely low

they did just that once, insert details, but it was a a high security checkpoint

JimmyMcGill

rugbyman wrote: »

i often wonder where people get their ideas from
I say rental companies do not pay speeding fines!!!!
several people on here say they do ,sounding like they know

i have half a dozen from france and from belgium, i paid none

in each case the rental company charged me for giving the info to the police

i received some of the fines by registered post

I still travel there, and i have no idea whether it will come to a hassle situation. I imagine that if stopped at a checkpoint where they put my licence into their computer, i may be in diffs

the chances of getting stopped in a routine check in either country are extremely low

they did just that once, insert details, but it was a a high security checkpoint

I was the same as that only in Germany. Got stopped going down from Aachen into across the border 7 or so years later and it flagged on their car computer. They only checked me cos I was in a RHD Transporter, he let me on my way once my contents were inspected. That was in 03 has to be completely different now.