Timber clad sliding gate

arrowman

I am looking to get an automatic sliding gate made up for the entrance to my house.
I have a guy in mind to made a box iron frame and he will install the runners and switchgear etc to run the gate.
But I wanted to clad the gate with timber.
Thinking of using lining the boards up horizontally and using different width boards with a shadow gap (I think I have the right term there) between them.
Very similar to the attached pic.
The two timber options I have looked at are cedar and Siberian larch.
My impressions of these are - cedar looks well, is light but might damage easily
The Siberian larch is lighter in colour, is more hard-wearing but is inclined to be a bit more knotty.
I'd be interested in getting your opinions. Has anybody used these timbers on gates? How are they looking after a number of years? what annual treatment do you give the timber?
Many Thanks

the_pen_turner

have you looked into that plastic stuff that looks like wood.
it would last a long time and need virtually no maintnce .

this is what I would do

deandean

That's a lovely gate in the pic.
I clad a 3.5m wide by 2.3m high hinged gate in Iroko a few years back, with the wood vertical. Here are my tips:
I welded angle iron to the frame which was drilled every 25mm for screws to attach the wood.
Use stainless steel screws to attach the wood (Tucks)
Have the entire frame hot-dip galvanised (Galco).
You probably won't get iroko etc in the lengths you need. So Larch or Cedar will work.
Yes, cedar is extremely soft. Larch is a better bet. You can get rough Larch from Abbey Woods. You'll need to get it planed.
You need a very good varnish that HAS to have UV protection. Check out International Schooner Gold. Thin the first 2 coats and apply witb a paint pad. You'll get a far better result if you varnish the wood after cutting to size and BEFORE you attach it to the frame.
Best of luck with the project!

arrowman

Thanks the_pen_turner but I looked at some of that PVC coated stuff - some of which had a grain in it to mimic real wood and to be honest with you I still thought it looked rank.

deandean those were great comments. My gate will be about 7m wide and 1.6M high. Yes I have been told that stainless steel fixings are the way to go and I will definitely get it galvanised. Powder coating in black was also suggested but I'm not sure whether I will bother with that.
My plan is to fix the timber on the outside so that none of the box iron frame is visible. The frame will be visible from the house side but bar I sheet both sides (more money!!) then I'll have to live with that
I am veering towards the Siberian larch myself now.
I was going to use something like Sickens varnish on it but maybe an oil of some sort might be better. I would like to use something to darken the larch down a small bit as it is quite pale.
That's a good point about treating them before fixing to the frame - I presume I will have to give the timber a quick coat every year to keep it right

deandean

+1 on the Siberian Larch.
If you want to darken the wood, it's hard to beat Ronseal 5 year woodstain. Available in lots of shades.
And it does last the 5 or so years.

mobfromcork

arrowman wrote: »

Thanks the_pen_turner but I looked at some of that PVC coated stuff - some of which had a grain in it to mimic real wood and to be honest with you I still thought it looked rank.

deandean those were great comments. My gate will be about 7m wide and 1.6M high. Yes I have been told that stainless steel fixings are the way to go and I will definitely get it galvanised. Powder coating in black was also suggested but I'm not sure whether I will bother with that.
My plan is to fix the timber on the outside so that none of the box iron frame is visible. The frame will be visible from the house side but bar I sheet both sides (more money!!) then I'll have to live with that
I am veering towards the Siberian larch myself now.
I was going to use something like Sickens varnish on it but maybe an oil of some sort might be better. I would like to use something to darken the larch down a small bit as it is quite pale.
That's a good point about treating them before fixing to the frame - I presume I will have to give the timber a quick coat every year to keep it right

I did something similar to this last year. Got larch from Sheehan's sawmills in Tipperary delivered to me. Had a guy make up a frame for the fence and gates in box iron and painted it black with an outdoor metal paint (can't remember the brand offhand). Then cut the larch to length for the fencing and gates and shaped the tops. The wood had been treated in the sawmills but in the sawn bits I used boiled linseed oil to seal them again. I like the look of the larch when it pales a bit so didn't treat it with anything else as yet. I have larch from the same mills on a kid's playbench outside as well and it has weathered very well. I then pre-drilled each piece and countersunk holes. This was a waste of time. I attached the larch to the frame with an impact driver and steel self tapping screws. This was more than powerful enough to embed the screws deep enough into the timber to not bother with the countersinking I think. I clamped each piece to the frame before screwing.
A neighbour advised that I leave a reasonable gap between each upright as it gets quite windy as we are on a hill. I like the look of the gate you linked to. My is a bit less 'finished' looking.

First pic is the gate not quite yet finished I needed to be able to open them manually from the outside (not automated) so left the gap in the middle to be able to access the latch on the inside. Waiting for the pillars to be plastered before adding the last fence bits.

Calahonda52

Don't support the idea of a water tight varnish: use a breathable protector like sadolins.

30 years ago I cut all the timber to size and drilled and prep-ed it and then got it pressure treated.

The only maintenance thus far has been when herself decides to stain it again with sadolins, no scraping of varnish.
The gate is south west facing so plenty drying in summer and wetting in winter

I went with red deal

G-Man

I did a bin house with planters on top and have been using cedar and now just before I finish, we hear it needs to be painted.

Would I just go with quality pressure treated and apply a suitable quality primer and topcoats - painted offsite.

Or should I need a higher quality wood. I believe, larch does not hold paint well

arrowman

Just a quick update - I have told my gate man to go ahead and make up the frame and i think i will go with the larch.
although the last comment from G-Man about it not holding paint has got me thinking!!

It's a very pale wood and I would like to darken it a bit and treat it with something before it is fixed to the steel frame.
I have used Sickens before on window boards in the house and it looks like a good product.
Sadolins and Ronseal might be cheaper alternatives - I'm not really sure.

You need a very good varnish that HAS to have UV protection. Check out International Schooner Gold.

Never heard of International Schooner Gold sounds like something you would be using on a boat. Will Google it

deandean

It is indeed frequently used on boats. And boat planking is.... Larch ��

arrowman

Ok - I will hunt down that Schooner Gold varnish to use so.

jack of all

I've recladded an existing steel gate with timber and the best advice I could give you is to avoid screwing boards directly to steel with tek screws. Better off fixing a hardwood or treated timber batten to the steel frame members with the tek screws and then fix the cladding through to this with regular woodscrews- stainless or bzp. Any timber clad fence or gate I've seen where individual boards were screwed straight to steel have lead to serious corrosion in the steel frame over time.

G-Man

I priced up timbers and found no one to recommend painting larch or cedar - too expensive they said, next up pressure treated timber, but you cant paint if for 6 months, unless its kiln dried post pressure treatment.

Lastly would WBP ply (not marine) with treated and protected ends work. OK I guess I am not getting a good wood grain look and not the planking features (though they can be routed in)..

SO would WBP treated and ends protected (under s/s cap detail as requested by customer) work outdoors.

arrowman

OK - a quick update.

About to start the work on my entrance this week. Putting down a bit of concrete at the same time as placing the steel beam on which my sliding gate will run.

The lad making the gate is still very nervous about fixing the timber lengthways to the steel frame of the gate. He is worried that the timber will swell and warp and pot whatever fixers are used to fix the timber to the gate. Things weren't help ed when I looked at the sample of Siberian Larch I had go from the timber yard a while ago. I had left this sitting in the utility room and it may have got damp - it has definitely twisted a bit so this has me worried as to what it will look like when its outside in our typical Irish weather. Just to say that this sample is double the thickness of what I was planning on using. (see attached pictures
Also you can see I treated half of it with an Owatrol Product called Textrol just to see how it would look.

Any ideas on this??

deandean

What's the spacing between the uprights on the gate to which will be attaching the wood? If it was me I'll be going for about 1m to 1.2 m. At each upright put three screws into each plank: one in the middle and one towards each edge. That should prevent any cupping.
lIRC I used 5mm SS self-tappers through 6mm holes in the steel, this allowed for a small bit of movement but those fasteners will never pop off.
You see the way the word cups toward the outside of the tree? When you're attaching the planks to the gate, have them all in the same orientation so that the centre of each plank will if anything cup ouward. it makes things nice and consistent.
For a finish you could also look at Deks D1 and D2 - but it's quite expensive and it may be too light for you. If I was going again I think I would go for the ronseal 5 year stain.

arrowman

Thanks deandean - will check on the spacings. Was planning on screwing into the timber from the back of the gate so that no fixings would be visible from the front.
The fella making the gate proposed folding a piece of steel to make a slot to slide the planks into and then a system of hidden springs at the top pressing down on the boards to keep them in place and eliminate rattling of the boards.

kadman

Folded top rail on the gate to hold the timber slid in, might
well benefit stopping any tendency the laths may have to cupping.

It would not be a good idea on a bottom rail. As it would keep the
end of the laths in water after rain, as it would be slow to disperse.