Stove Boiler for Pressurised System

Conchobhair

Apparently these are, and have been for quite some time, commonplace in Europe and making inroads over here. Anyone have experience of them and / or know of any suppliers (preferably in the north of the country)? Any websites I can do a little research?

Conchobhair

Anyone? I'm sure someone on these boards has a stove boiler in an unvented / pressurised system?

demanufactured

I'm sure they have , but they are not legal and not safe for use in this country.

my3cents

demanufactured wrote: »

I'm sure they have , but they are not legal and not safe for use in this country.

Next door neighbor has one and I know two other people with the same model (a massive inset stove made in Germany around 4K iirc but don't know the make or model). Perfectly legal (all signed off on on new builds) and supposedly perfectly safe but I don't really like the idea of them.

Edit> forget to say the stoves I'm referring too are designed for use in a pressurised system and have safety features built in you won't find in a stove that is designed to work in the traditional open system.

roy rodgers

my3cents wrote: »

Next door neighbor has one and I know two other people with the same model (a massive inset stove made in Germany around 4K iirc but don't know the make or model). Perfectly legal (all signed off on on new builds) and supposedly perfectly safe but I don't really like the idea of them.

Edit> forget to say the stoves I'm referring too are designed for use in a pressurised system and have safety features built in you won't find in a stove that is designed to work in the traditional open system.

Have you a link to these stoves?? I'd like to see how they control the heat if every thing fails.

Dtp1979

roy rodgers wrote: »

Have you a link to these stoves?? I'd like to see how they control the heat if every thing fails.

I’d imagine they have the same safety features as heat genie etc.
God I shiver when I think of pressurised solid fuel.
People seem to think that if something in done is Germany or Austria then it must be trustworthy.
The simple facts are that safety features are mechanical parts and can fail like any other mechanical part.
Unless they discover how to turn off a solid fuel fire instantly then I’m not buying it

my3cents

Dtp1979 wrote: »

I’d imagine they have the same safety features as heat genie etc.
God I shiver when I think of pressurised solid fuel.
People seem to think that if something in done is Germany or Austria then it must be trustworthy.
The simple facts are that safety features are mechanical parts and can fail like any other mechanical part.
Unless they discover how to turn off a solid fuel fire instantly then I’m not buying it

I must research it a bit more, I'll see if I can find the installation instructions from the neighbor, but afaik part of the safety features include a way of cooling the boiler?

I agree however that it is a scary idea and maybe why the OP hasn't got a very good response.

Dtp1979

my3cents wrote: »

I must research it a bit more, I'll see if I can find the installation instructions from the neighbor, but afaik part of the safety features include a way of cooling the boiler?

I agree however that it is a scary idea and maybe why the OP hasn't got a very good response.

Yes the cooling is probably controlled by a temperature controlled valve that flushed the boiler with mains water. What what happens when the mains isn’t working or the mechanical valve fails

my3cents

Dtp1979 wrote: »

Yes the cooling is probably controlled by a temperature controlled valve that flushed the boiler with mains water. What what happens when the mains isn’t working or the mechanical valve fails

iirc there are at two other safety features so you need three things to go wrong before you blow up and cover yourself with scalding steam.

My problem is that having seen far too many badly installed open systems I can imagine a lot of potential for getting it wrong on a closed system and thats long before any of the safety features kick in.

Its unfair however to dismiss the idea out of hand without discussing it. Perhaps after some reasoned discussion the OP will change his mind or at least take steps to make sure any closed system he does have installed is installed correctly and as safely as possible.

When the OP says pressurised systems are common in Europe it seems that is a bit of an understatement and that in Germany you'd be hard pressed to get a stove installed any other way.

roy rodgers

A few months ago a fellow in Meath or Louth was killed from the back boiler exploding. I believe the system was pressurized and shouldn't off, but we will hear more at the inquest and I can guarantee ya regulations are gonna change big time over this.

my3cents

roy rodgers wrote: »

A few months ago a fellow in Meath or Louth was killed from the back boiler exploding. I believe the system was pressurized and shouldn't off, but we will hear more at the inquest and I can guarantee ya regulations are gonna change big time over this.

http://www.thejournal.ie/louth-fire-explosion-3697581-Nov2017/ & https://www.rte.ie/news/leinster/2017/1115/920151-drogheda-explosion/

But I not convinced there will be new regulations on the basis of Lithuanian cannabis growers blowing themselves up.

Unvented cylinders and 10 ltr undersink water heater are rarely fitted safely so based on the quality of the work done on pressurised hot water at the moment the idea of pressurising back boilers would be a frightening one.

jca

Will the natural thermo-syphon effect still work on a pressurised back boiler? Assuming the cylinder is above the boiler and the flow and return pipes have a clear unobstructed run to the cylinder.

Dtp1979

jca wrote: »

Will the natural thermo-syphon effect still work on a pressurised back boiler? Assuming the cylinder is above the boiler and the flow and return pipes have a clear unobstructed run to the cylinder.

It should, yes. The tank in the attic is for expansion. Anything less is madness tbh

Conchobhair

my3cents wrote: »

demanufactured wrote: »

I'm sure they have , but they are not legal and not safe for use in this country.

Next door neighbor has one and I know two other people with the same model (a massive inset stove made in Germany around 4K iirc but don't know the make or model). Perfectly legal (all signed off on on new builds) and supposedly perfectly safe but I don't really like the idea of them.

Edit> forget to say the stoves I'm referring too are designed for use in a pressurised system and have safety features built in you won't find in a stove that is designed to work in the traditional open system.

Yes, the stoves I have in mind are designed specifically for pressurised heating systems. From Broseley website:-
..
Our Safety Cold Water System (SCWS) has been developed to enable select woodburning boiler stoves to be safely connected to a sealed heating system. We have developed a sealed heating system boiler due to the increasing trend in Europe and the UK for sealed heating systems. A sealed heating system boiler facilitates the integration of solid fuel boilers into the house existing heating system without the need for any means of incorporating a vented boiler into an unvented system and the associated pipe work and controls
..
Example of one of the stoves:  Broseley eVolution-26