Builder or architect

recipesforme

Hi,

We have bought a mid-terrace red brick that needs some refurbishing.
We have a fair idea of what we would like to do to the house, including the removal of a load bearing wall, replacing floors, upgrading electrics etc. but no extension.

We have budgeted about 50-60k for this and I get the impression that architects don't tend to go for jobs that small. In your experience is that correct? Would we be as well off just looking for builders?

Many thanks

Bracken81

I'd highly recommend you contact a professional before going near a builder.
As otherwise it could become open season for the Builder

An architectural Technologist/Building Surveyor/Engineer, might well be cheaper to use than an Architects practice for smaller type jobs

bemak

The fact that you're not extending is probably more of a reason to get an architect on board. A good architect will be able to help you make the most of the space you have.

recipesforme

Thanks for the replies - we've decided to go with an architect. I think given our lack of knowledge on all fronts, it's probably best to get an expert now rather than after

Calahonda52

well you will need a structural engineer to sign off on the removal of the load bearing wall: I presume there will be a steel beam being added so search this forum for the process.will cost about a grand

C. Eastwood

You should engage a Chartered Building Surveyor, who will prepare Drawings and a Specification of Works, to enable Tenders to be obtained from Competent Building Contractors. You will also required the completed works to be in compliance with the Building Regulations.

adam88

Hey. I’m doing something similar, renovationing a 1970 house, knocking a wall, changing a small bedroom into a en-suite etc, there’s some good builders working around where I live but I don’t want to go calling them before knowing exactly what I need doing.

Question is, who does or compiles this list???? My thinking is an engineer and that he’ll list x y and z and that I’ll give this to a builder and he’ll say for that list it will cost x amount. Am I correct in thinking this

C. Eastwood

adam88. Yes you should engage a consultant in private practice, with professional indemnity insurance. Either a Surveyor, Architect, Engineer or an Architectural Technologist. The P I insurance will be operational for a period of six years after the building works are completed.
From your description, it appears that the works you are carrying out are exempt from Planning Permission. There is no exemption from the Building Regulations, and therefore any works carried out must be in compliance with same.
If a building project is done properly, when the works are completed, they should be completed to (1) Standards and Regulations et cetera, (2) within Budget, and (3) completed by an agreed Date.
What is very important also, is that before the building contractor starts - he gives you a Quotation/ Estimate/ Tender, and a good consultant will ensure that this is similar to the builders Final Account when all the works are completed.
Whilst Construction Drawings are important, what is more important is a ‘Specification of Works’ (Contract Documents). The Specification of Works should be completed by your consultant and should include, inter alia, everything which you require the building contractor to carry. E.g. it should specify every single electrical socket, switch, electric light, fuse board, electric showers, et cetera, details of all walls floors, roof timbers, all radiators properly sized, internal doors and locks specified et cetera. This specification should also inform the builder that any electricity which he will use whilst he is on your site must be paid for by the builder et cetera.
When you have the Construction Drawings and the Specification of Works completed, you could engage a Chartered Quantity Surveyor who will give you a Bill of Quantities and a budget figure for your proposed works. If this Budget Figure is more than what you can afford, then you need to alter the Specification to reduce the Budget Figure before getting a Quotation/ Estimate/ Tender from the building contract.
Yes this is a long tedious complicated procedure
Engaging a Building Contractor before any of this is agreed, may lead to problems
Building Contracts are like Mine Fields. – Engage a Consultant, it gives you protection.

bemak

C. Eastwood wrote: »

adam88. Yes you should engage a consultant in private practice, with professional indemnity insurance. Either a Surveyor, Architect, Engineer or an Architectural Technologist. The P I insurance will be operational for a period of six years after the building works are completed.
From your description, it appears that the works you are carrying out are exempt from Planning Permission. There is no exemption from the Building Regulations, and therefore any works carried out must be in compliance with same.
If a building project is done properly, when the works are completed, they should be completed to (1) Standards and Regulations et cetera, (2) within Budget, and (3) completed by an agreed Date.
What is very important also, is that before the building contractor starts - he gives you a Quotation/ Estimate/ Tender, and a good consultant will ensure that this is similar to the builders Final Account when all the works are completed.
Whilst Construction Drawings are important, what is more important is a ‘Specification of Works’ (Contract Documents). The Specification of Works should be completed by your consultant and should include, inter alia, everything which you require the building contractor to carry. E.g. it should specify every single electrical socket, switch, electric light, fuse board, electric showers, et cetera, details of all walls floors, roof timbers, all radiators properly sized, internal doors and locks specified et cetera. This specification should also inform the builder that any electricity which he will use whilst he is on your site must be paid for by the builder et cetera.
When you have the Construction Drawings and the Specification of Works completed, you could engage a Chartered Quantity Surveyor who will give you a Bill of Quantities and a budget figure for your proposed works. If this Budget Figure is more than what you can afford, then you need to alter the Specification to reduce the Budget Figure before getting a Quotation/ Estimate/ Tender from the building contract.
Yes this is a long tedious complicated procedure
Engaging a Building Contractor before any of this is agreed, may lead to problems
Building Contracts are like Mine Fields. – Engage a Consultant, it gives you protection.

This is an excellent response to a very common question on here.

C. Eastwood

bemak. Thanks for your kind comment.

Kind Regards

C. Eastwod

C. Eastwood

I have a Specimen of a Specification of Works for a Refurbishment of a 1930 house.

How can I upload it to this Forum

Fiona McP

Yes, you should engage an architect for any type of structural work and I'd recommend having them oversee the entire project. You'll save money in the end by avoiding problems, delays, any potential issues with a builder or other tradespeople, and by availing of any trade discounts they might have access to. And you'll end up with a much more useful and considered space.

Lustrum

C. Eastwood wrote: »

I have a Specimen of a Specification of Works for a Refurbishment of a 1930 house.

How can I upload it to this Forum

I'd love to get to see this if possible please, if you're happy to email it I can contact you via PM.

We've just bought a 1928 terraced bungalow and are hoping to do some remodeling/renovations. We've spoken to a few of architects and have got a couple of what we would call PFO quotes, so are now thinking of just engaging an architect for design help and then project managing it between ourselves and the main contractor. However all help with it and ideas such as above would be greatly appreciated

C. Eastwood

Is it possible for me to email the Copy of the Specification of Works (Schedule of Works) in WORD to the Moderator or Boards.ie and have it put on the site for everyone to get copies of same.

bemak

google drive link?

C. Eastwood

I understand that the building industry and the building processes are very complicated even in relation to domestic houses.
Some building projects may be exempt from the BCMS (Building Control Management System) e.g. sometimes you may be exempt from planning permission to build an extension at the rear of your house if the extension is less than 40 m², or a front Porch less than 2 m², If you’re building an extension at the side of your house or at the front of the house, you will require planning permission, but you may be exempt from the BCMS.
If you are building a new house, there is some mechanism in place where you may opt out of the BCMS.
However if you must use the BCMS, then you will require the services of a professional in private practice, and in order to comply with the BCMS the professional will need to be a Statutory registered ‘Design Certifier’ and ‘Assigned Certifier’, and will have a registration number which is required by the BCMS.
There are only three professions which are allowed register as a ‘Design Certifier’ and ‘Assigned Certifier’, and they will require approximately 10 years of approved experience and must go through a rigorous process in order to be registered. The three professions are as follows: - (1) Building Surveyor or Chartered Building Surveyor, (2) Architect and (3) Chartered Civil Engineer.
Please Note, that all Surveyors and Architects and Chartered Civil Engineers are not registered as ‘Design Certifier’ and ‘Assigned Certifier’
“Design Certifier” means the person who signs the Certificate of Compliance (Design);
“Assigned Certifier” means the competent, registered professional person so assigned, in accordance with the Building Control Regulations;

C. Eastwood

I hope that the file of the Specimen of the Specification of Works will open for users of this site. As you can see is a very complicated document. It will become a Contract Document together with the Construction Drawings, in the provision of an Agreement (written Contract) between the clients and the building contractor.

The reason that PC Sums are used is so that the building contractors Tender - before the works commence will reflect the total Contract Sum (Your budget), when the works are completed.

It is always best to get the advice of a Chartered Quantity Surveyor on the amounts to be used for PC Sums.
All of the details in the Specification of Works must be decided upon, and doing this in the Specification of Works before the building contractor commences on site, will help to reduce problems and disputes.

In the absence of a Specification of Works, many Clients will assume that the building contractor is going to supply the most beautiful looking hardwood door. However without a specification the builder will assume that he is to supply the cheapest door that he can purchase.

Please let me know if you are/ are not - able to open the Specimen of the Specification of Works, in the Post above.

C. Eastwood

Lustrum. are you able to open the Specification Document

Lustrum

C. Eastwood wrote: »

Lustrum. are you able to open the Specification Document

I'll have to try when I get home on the laptop, unfortunately I can't open it on mobile

Lustrum

Hey C. Eastwood, that opened no problem at home, thanks a million for that, really appreciate it

C. Eastwood

Lustrum. Thanks

Perfect

Regards

C Eastwood.

BryanF

C. Eastwood wrote: »

Lustrum. are you able to open the Specification Document

Document removed. Chartered surveyors email on attachment. Please read the forum charter. Any questions PM the mods .