Marijuana or Opioids: the gateway drug?

jimbobaloobob

I watched a programme last night on heroin in cape cod, one of the statistics that came up was that the prescribing of opioids accounted for 80% of people going on to use heroin.

Just wondering why in Ireland is it often thrown out there in debates that marijuana is a gateway drug if this is the case.

I neither smoke nor drink so im not here to push any agenda.

Mods: feel free to move this to a more appropriate area for discussion

Assetbacked

jimbobaloobob wrote: »

I watched a programme last night on heroin in cape cod, one of the statistics that came up was that the prescribing of opioids accounted for 80% of people going on to use heroin.

Just wondering why in Ireland is it often thrown out there in debates that marijuana is a gateway drug if this is the case.

I neither smoke nor drink so im not here to push any agenda.

Mods: feel free to move this to a more appropriate area for discussion

Pringles are a gateway drug; **** is addictive.

The_Valeyard

Bacon Bites in the pub.

One pack is never enough.

stimpson

Tea is the real gateway drug. 99.99% of druggists have started drinking tea. The thing is that the vested interests in the caffeinated beverage industry have the government in their pocket so they have no fear of being shut down.

freshpopcorn

I think a lot of people just base it on personal experience.

The_Valeyard

stimpson wrote: »

Tea is the real gateway drug. 99.99% of druggists have started drinking tea. The thing is that the vested interests in the caffeinated beverage industry have the government in their pocket so they have no fear of being shut down.

Probably oxygen. Every single drug addict I know has tried oxygen.

Tom Mann Centuria

I don't think the prescribing of opioid analgesia is as prevalent here as in the US, so don't think you can draw too many conclusions either way from that. I'd be very surprised if those stats correlated even slightly with the Irish experience.

I presume but I don't know, marijuana is considered a gateway because you have to buy it illegally, and same seller will then give you some other kind of drug, leading on to heroin? No idea, just a guess. Incidentally I met my first Crystal Meth addict last week, shame because that's a total fckuer of a drug.

Insect Overlord

It's all about fear. Schools operate on the same principle. Hammer young people for the little rules and they'll be more afraid of breaking the big ones.

PowerToWait

Tom Mann Centuria wrote: »

I presume but I don't know, marijuana is considered a gateway because you have to buy it illegally, and same seller will then give you some other kind of drug, leading on to heroin?.

Only in the movies.

Alcohol is the biggest gateway drug in most instances.

Tom Mann Centuria

PowerToWait wrote: »

Only in the movies.

Alcohol is the biggest gateway drug in most instances.

Not saying it isn't, but suggesting why people think weed is.

Insect Overlord

Tom Mann Centuria wrote: »

Not saying it isn't, but suggesting why people think weed is.

I suppose if you're willing to pay a drug dealer for weed, you've probably got lower inhibitions about paying them for harder stuff too. Most people pay a licensed retailer for their booze, rather than a certifiable criminal.

Your Face

Some people will always want a bigger high.

Fr_Dougal

PowerToWait wrote: »

Only in the movies.

Alcohol is the biggest gateway drug in most instances.

Yeah but if all you do is booze, you’re out of the loop for the yummy drugs like marijuana, cocaine and heroin.

Once you have a dealer for marijuana, they’ll be able to get you the rest.

Tom Mann Centuria

Insect Overlord wrote: »

I suppose if you're willing to pay a drug dealer for weed, you've probably got lower inhibitions about paying them for harder stuff too.

That was my thinking behind the idea as well, but completely open to theory it could be a load of bollocks too. I am pretty sure the example in OP is not a similar scenario here, yet, anyway.

Insect Overlord

Tom Mann Centuria wrote: »

Well that was my thinking behind the idea too, but completely open to theory it could be a load of bollocks too. I am pretty sure the example in OP is not a similar scenario here, yet, anyway.

I guess there's no single answer to it.

I'm sure I've read it that prescription medicines and steroids are illegally used on a far wider scale than a lot of Class A drugs. It's still drug abuse, but you don't get the same amount of shocking news stories about it.

Will I Am Not

I started off with alcohol, then hash - speed - LSD - ecstasy - cocaine.
Don’t touch any of them now bar a few drinks at a wedding or Christmas.
You could say they are gateways but they were all my choices. I said from the start that heroin was one thing I wouldn’t even try once and stuck with it.

Most people I’ve grown up with dabbled with something or other. A few have ended up on heroin. It’s a sh*tty life and they knew that but still decided to take it.

Marijuana may be considered a gateway drug but it doesn’t force you to try anything else. I know plenty of people that have smoked it for years and never touched anything harder.

jimbobaloobob

freshpopcorn wrote: »

I think a lot of people just base it on personal experience.

If thats the case are the likes of politicians basing it on personal experience if they use it in a debate when people talk of legalisation?

jimbobaloobob

Tom Mann Centuria wrote: »

I don't think the prescribing of opioid analgesia is as prevalent here as in the US, so don't think you can draw too many conclusions either way from that. I'd be very surprised if those stats correlated even slightly with the Irish experience.

I presume but I don't know, marijuana is considered a gateway because you have to buy it illegally, and same seller will then give you some other kind of drug, leading on to heroin? No idea, just a guess. Incidentally I met my first Crystal Meth addict last week, shame because that's a total fckuer of a drug.

Thanks for a sensible answer. I see your point. I would have presumed marijuana might be considered more the gateway drug in US seeing as they dont frequent pubs in the fashion we do so house parties etc would allow for more access to it. I suppose the statistic just surprised me because we rarely hear of the prescription medication being the gateway here in Ireland.

jimbobaloobob

In most cases mentioned those that got prescription opioids got severe strengths of them and it was said that addiction to them can happen within four days of consumption. Maybe that's a more realistic assumption of what a gateway is to it, as one poster mentioned top of the page, many smoke week for years and never gateway to anything.

I know there's no answer to this but sure throwing it out there for debate.

Tom Mann Centuria

jimbobaloobob wrote: »

Thanks for a sensible answer. I see your point. I would have presumed marijuana might be considered more the gateway drug in US seeing as they dont frequent pubs in the fashion we do so house parties etc would allow for more access to it. I suppose the statistic just surprised me because we rarely hear of the prescription medication being the gateway here in Ireland.

It could also be people aren't as forthcoming about being on opioid meds here than the US, and it's under reported. It is an interesting question, I read somewhere last week an opioid analgesia with no addictive property was close, it'll be interesting to see if it ever arrives. Prescription medication addiction is definitely an issue, regardless of scale.

ceadaoin.

jimbobaloobob wrote: »

In most cases mentioned those that got prescription opioids got severe strengths of them and it was said that addiction to them can happen within four days of consumption. Maybe that's a more realistic assumption of what a gateway is to it, as one poster mentioned top of the page, many smoke week for years and never gateway to anything.

I know there's no answer to this but sure throwing it out there for debate.

If you take even nurofen plus continuously for 3 or more days you're going to develop a physical addiction to it. That's the nature of opioids and it's unavoidable.

I don't know what the cost of those drugs in Ireland is, but here in the US heroin is cheaper. That's why many people end up turning to it when their insurance coverage runs out or when their tolerance becomes too large and too expensive to support with the legal stuff.

I think that the whole marijuana being a "gateway drug" has been largely disproven. Prescription opioids in many cases do lead the person onto illegal street drugs such as heroin though. The over prescription of these drugs has led to huge problems in the US. I hope Ireland doesn't follow suit.

Grayson

I wonder if the op realises that heroin is an opioid.

The prescription stuff in the US is actually far stronger than heroin.

Tigger

Cigs are the gateway
We are told not to smoke but we donand that’s the gateway
Once we learn to hid our smokes and buy them discreetly then it’s all in

jimbobaloobob

Grayson wrote: »

I wonder if the op realises that heroin is an opioid.

The prescription stuff in the US is actually far stronger than heroin.

I never said heroin wasn't an opioid but the prescription form is was sends them to search for heroin because it's more affordable

pq0n1ct4ve8zf5

Fr_Dougal wrote: »

Yeah but if all you do is booze, you’re out of the loop for the yummy drugs like marijuana, cocaine and heroin.

Once you have a dealer for marijuana, they’ll be able to get you the rest.

Not necessarily.

The thing is, people who end up on heroin or crack or meth are unlikely to have skipped straight to that, they probably will have started out drinking or on softer drugs, but it in no way means that those drugs caused them to go to the harder ones.

Heroin and opiods are massively addictive but a lot of people with serious hard drug problems are coming from a very bad place. Poverty, terrible childhood, mental illness, social isolation. Those are the drivers, not that first joint. Some people also do just have addictive personalities, of the recovering alcoholics and addicts I know, they're demons for the sex or the mountain climbing or something else. Far healthier obviously but to some extent the same behaviour.

I've smoked for years, would never go near opiods, coke is really not for me, ditto ketamine and some other stuff, no interest. I don't agree with the notion that marijuana is this completely benign miracle non-addictive thing though, it absolutely can be psychologically addictive and can be abused. But it's very possible to use it recreationally and in a responsible way.

It's like being flammable I guess. Some people are bowls of water, you can light matches/joints and throw as many of them in as you want and nothing happens, some people, whether through temperament or circumstance are bowls of oil soaked sawdust and all they need is the spark. But the gateway drug theory is lazy bollocks.

Esel

Lenny Bruce's gambler rap: "It started with bingo in the Catholic church...".

Billy86

Insect Overlord wrote: »

It's all about fear. Schools operate on the same principle. Hammer young people for the little rules and they'll be more afraid of breaking the big ones.

This is true, and a not only questionable but failed approach as when the kids then eventually do break a major rule, they notice the punishment doesn't scale with it (as the school set the punishment for minor infractions too low) and pretty quickly lose respect for rules, boundaries or authority in general.