babybuilder's EV Questions

babybuilder

Hi
I've been watching these threads for a while now and I'd appreciate some assistance in filling in my knowledge deficit on electric cars, particularly the Leaf.
When will the new 40kW leaf be available for sale in the south?
What kind of pricing are you looking at?
Apart from the government grant of €5000 what other incentives are likely to be offered?
Will the grant for the home charger still be applicable?
What type of charging cables are likely to be included with the car?

The reason that I've taken an interest now is because my other half has her own business / company and was alerted to the 0% BIK. She drives a diesel and despite claiming VAT on the fuel it isn't justified because of her low annual mileage (14K km) and the preponderance of short journeys (each 8-10km max). Five or six times a year we do a round trip of about 180 km. I've read that the new leaf will possibly have a range of around 200 km.

The eGolf also has caught her attention as it looks a more solid car although its price, lower range and slightly smaller dimensions are negatives. In addition I think there may be a long waiting time for one. However, do you think that the eGolf may have the smallest depreciation after three years?

I've had short 10-15 minute test drives in the old leaf and Ioniq. I thought that the visibility out of the Ioniq wasn't great but it felt faster.

I would appreciate any advice on the above
B

cros13

babybuilder wrote: »

When will the new 40kW leaf be available for sale in the south?

It's available for pre-orders now.
The first two deliveries (early february and late march) will only be of the special "launch edition" with other specs being delivered starting in May.
Most Nissan garages have sold out of their February allocations.

babybuilder wrote: »

What kind of pricing are you looking at?

Official Irish pricing is only available for the "launch edition". This version of the car is an SV spec with €2k of options added (the semi autonomous driving among them). It's €29,590.

UK Pricing for other specs is out (note that UK pricing for the previous model was higher than the Irish price):

XE (Visia) – From £21,990 (€24,800) - That's just £300 more than the RRP for the 24kWh
SV (Acenta) – From £24,290 (€27,400)
N-Connecta (new trim level) – From £25,990 (€29,325)
SVE (Tekna) – From £27,490 (€31,000)

babybuilder wrote: »

Apart from the government grant of €5000 what other incentives are likely to be offered?

€600 towards home chargepoint installation. Possibility of free tolls at government owned tolls (and maybe waterford toll).

babybuilder wrote: »

What type of charging cables are likely to be included with the car?

Unknown at this point. It's pretty much guaranteed that a standard Type 2 charging cable will be provided, less certain that a "granny cable" with a three pin plug will due to that being a relatively costly piece of equipment (from 2011-2017 it was not provided with the Irish Leaf but was in the UK).

babybuilder wrote: »

The reason that I've taken an interest now is because my other half has her own business / company and was alerted to the 0% BIK. She drives a diesel and despite claiming VAT on the fuel it isn't justified because of her low annual mileage (14K km) and the preponderance of short journeys (each 8-10km max). Five or six times a year we do a round trip of about 180 km. I've read that the new leaf will possibly have a range of around 200 km.

Realistic range will be circa 240-250km (the NEDC rating is 378km). The question in your case is whether you do enough mileage to justify an EV.

If you have another car the majority of your mileage will likely move to the EV, which is another factor worth considering.

babybuilder

Thanks for the reply and info.
Had a look at Nissan uk and they've listed all the spec for the models you've described. Interesting to find out if the Irish pricing will be lower again for the new models. Is the "launch edition" the same as the New LEAF 2.ZERO found on the Nissan uk website?

Also, I would be interested to know what the optimum mileage should be for an electric car such as the Leaf? I may have understated the mileage at 14K km, more like 16k km. Btw, will the €600 grant cover the cost of charge point installation?

goz83

babybuilder wrote: »

Thanks for the reply and info.
Had a look at Nissan uk and they've listed all the spec for the models you've described. Interesting to find out if the Irish pricing will be lower again for the new models. Is the "launch edition" the same as the New LEAF 2.ZERO found on the Nissan uk website?

Also, I would be interested to know what the optimum mileage should be for an electric car such as the Leaf? I may have understated the mileage at 14K km, more like 16k km. Btw, will the €600 grant cover the cost of charge point installation?

I haven’t looked at the UK spec, but would imagine the launch edition would be the same, because the other old variants are exact matches uk and ireland....with the exception of the uk getting the granny chargers.

I do small mileage. It would cost less to drive a small petrol car. I chose EV because I got tired of pumping €60 into the tank every other week. The idea of driving an EV became very attractive because I charge at home.

A couple of months after buying the first Leaf.....we sold the 7 seater petrol and bought a second ev. It’s not just about saving money. There are other reasons to go ev.

The grant will cover most of the cost of a home charger install if it’s an easy enough run and the charger is not expensive. So, it depends on the circumstances and what you want.

babybuilder

Thanks
We've been seriously considering the EV route for a number of years. I suppose its partly due to more environmental issues coupled with the introduction of the government incentives. We've driven mostly 2nd hand diesels - about 5 or 6 - of varying engine sizes - mostly Audi / VWs. I have to say it hasn't always been pleasurable and most have been expensive to service and fix in the long run. My first and current car are petrols and I had the least bother with them.

Not sure now whether to hold on until more competitive pricing is introduced later in the year or go with the current offer. Mind you I really like the idea of the eGolf.

unkel

eGolf is a great car, go test drive one. Mind, it won't do your 180km round trip if there is a good bit of motorway 120km/h driving involved. Ioniq and the new Leaf will. I have an Ioniq myself, and I agree the visibility out of the rear (split) window isn't good. But you do get used to it fairly quickly. The standard park distance control and rear camera help there too!

babybuilder

unkel wrote: »

eGolf is a great car, go test drive one. Mind, it won't do your 180km round trip if there is a good bit of motorway 120km/h driving involved. Ioniq and the new Leaf will. I have an Ioniq myself, and I agree the visibility out of the rear (split) window isn't good. But you do get used to it fairly quickly. The standard park distance control and rear camera help there too!

Thanks slot.
Must look at a test drive in the golf. I'm not sure that there are many about. I live in the northwest so will check out the vw letterkenny or Sligo.

goz83

babybuilder wrote: »

Thanks slot.
Must look at a test drive in the golf. I'm not sure that there are many about. I live in the northwest so will check out the vw letterkenny or Sligo.

The egolf is nice, but it’s way overpriced and I am not alone in that opinion. I would go for an Ioniq over an egolf all things considered.

However, they are both CCS for rapid charging and the north west has the worst ccs coverage in the country. Based on that, I would lean toward a 30kWh Leaf or a Leaf 2 if you want to spend a bit more. Both are CHAdeMO. If you never plan to use the rapid chargers in your part of the island.....then pick what you like the most.

unkel

It's a good point about lack of CCS in the north west, but the fast charger in Roscommon was recently replaced with a triple head, so now has CCS too. Would make a big difference if you're regularly travelling between Sligo and Dublin.

babybuilder

Normally travel between Derry and Dublin, either through Omagh or via Belfast. Are there any fast chargers on either route to Dublin?

jprboy

babybuilder wrote: »

Normally travel between Derry and Dublin, either through Omagh or via Belfast. Are there any fast chargers on either route to Dublin?

Yes, on both.

See here:

https://www.esb.ie/our-businesses/ecars/charge-point-map

unkel

Those routes are also fine for CCS

It was Dublin - Sligo that was an issue with CCS (before they replaced Roscommon charger)

There are no more CCS blackspots now in he country (32 counties) if your car has a motorway range of at least 170km (which Ioniq does). A lot trickier in eGolf, particularly the old small battery one!

Obviously if any one of the fast CCS chargers is not working, you're in trouble. And even if it is just occupied, it will add to your waiting time. Bring on the multi charge locations, preferable all 150kW / 350kW

babybuilder

Thanks
As there is a couple of months delay in the new leaf I think we'll sit tight. The ioniq is a nice drive but I just don't know. If the money was right I'd consider an a 30kw leaf or the ioniq for that matter. They always say never be in a rush to buy a car.

maclek

A couple of questions on these responses.

Is the €600 grant for a charger available if you are doing a company purchase? The SEAI implies it isn't.

Which cars use CCS? I think the leaf 2 is only CHAdeMO and type 2?

What's the deal with the 22kw type 2 chargers that seem to be all over the place? Does this require a car that supports 22kw ac? The leaf 2 only supports 6.6kw ac so will only charge at that rate except at CHAdeMO chargers?

Hoping to get my leaf 2 in the first batch next month.

thanks

bp_me

maclek wrote: »

What's the deal with the 22kw type 2 chargers that seem to be all over the place? Does this require a car that supports 22kw ac? The leaf 2 only supports 6.6kw ac so will only charge at that rate except at CHAdeMO chargers?

The car takes whatever it can from the type 2 chargers. So yes leaf2 will charge at 6.6kw from them. Ioniq is a bit faster. i3 faster again(not sure if there are options around this). Zoe is the only model that can take full advantage of type 2 afaik.

cros13

maclek wrote: »

Is the €600 grant for a charger available if you are doing a company purchase? The SEAI implies it isn't.

No, Private vehicles only.

maclek wrote: »

Which cars use CCS? I think the leaf 2 is only CHAdeMO and type 2?

CCS is the european rapid charging standard and used by most manufacturers including but not limited to BMW, VW/Audi/Porsche/Skoda/Seat, Jaguar/Land Rover, Mercedes, NEVS (formerly Saab), Hyundai, Opel, Ford, Peugeot/DS/Citroen, LDV, Faraday Future, Lucid, Zero Motorcycles, Lightning Motorcycles, Energica, MAN, Mitsubishi, Subaru, GM, Mahindra, Fiat, Volvo, Toyota and Honda. Renault has announced switching to CCS in 2019 from AC43. Tesla have also joined the CCS technical group and the european version of the Model 3 is widely anticipated to include CCS.

The sole holdouts are Nissan and Mazda. The Leaf 2 and it's eNV200 van sibling will most probably be the last CHAdeMO vehicles sold in europe.
It is expected that CCS will be formally established as the standard by the EU Alternative Fuels Infrastructure directive this year.

The deficit of CCS rapids in Ireland is due to the rapid charger rollout being largely stalled since 2015... which is when the first CCS cars hit the market.

maclek wrote: »

What's the deal with the 22kw type 2 chargers that seem to be all over the place? Does this require a car that supports 22kw ac? The leaf 2 only supports 6.6kw ac so will only charge at that rate except at CHAdeMO chargers?

The 22kW chargepoints provide three phase 32A AC power. What you can use of that supply depends on the onboard charger in the vehicle. The Leaf Mk2 comes with a pair of 3.3kW (single phase 15A) onboard chargers operating in parallel to charge at 6.6kW. The 22kWH BMW i3 has a 7.4kW single phase 32A charger, 34kWh BMW i3 has an 11kW 3-phase 16A charger, Ioniq 7.4kW single phase 32A charger, Model S varies from 11kW to 22kW depending on age (the current cars have 16.5kW), Renault Zoe depending on the variant either 22kW or 43kW.

A rapid charger bypasses the onboard charger and directly charges the car's battery with high voltage DC power.

babybuilder

Thanks for all the fantastic info. Any idea when the charge point network will be upgraded?

goz83

babybuilder wrote: »

Thanks for all the fantastic info. Any idea when the charge point network will be upgraded?

How long is a piece of string?

There are upgrades in progress right now, but I doubt it will keep up with the number of EVs coming onto our roads as more and more people turn away from Diesel.

Shefwedfan

As BIK is 0% I would not discount the eGolf so quickly. It will do 200km no problem. On the older model guy in LImerick is getting 170km per charge....

I would test drive all options including the BMW. What car is your wife currently driving? Probably the most important bit of information.....

So far the eGolf has shown the smaller depreciation compared to Leaf, but then the same can be said for the BMW and Hyundai

It is worth noting that in 3 years VW will have the ID range out, so to get decent value you will need to swap to VW. The ID range will have 4-5 different models including cross over etc, google to find out more.

babybuilder

Nissan Qasquai. Info is vague on the availability of the egolf. We would like to move the Nissan asap as it's due a service and is fairly sore on fuel. Might have to travel to Dublin to test drive the golf

Shefwedfan

Dublin or Cork seem to be the only eGolf dealers currently. You will probably need to go to Dublin for i3 anyway.

If she already has a Qashqai then she is used to Nissan interior so Leaf might not be an issue.

Doesn’t seem to be huge issues in Ireland in regards to supply, a good few people have ordered and got delivery dates etc. IN larger regions the waiting list is long

babybuilder

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Dublin or Cork seem to be the only eGolf dealers currently. You will probably need to go to Dublin for i3 anyway.

If she already has a Qashqai then she is used to Nissan interior so Leaf might not be an issue.

Doesn’t seem to be huge issues in Ireland in regards to supply, a good few people have ordered and got delivery dates etc. IN larger regions the waiting list is long

The Nissan interior isn't great and as we've had Audi and VW before we do notice. Then there's the small underpowered 1.5 diesel engine.

Shefwedfan

Don’t complain about the 1.5 engine, I had a qashqai AWD with the 1.6 engine, if felt like driving a truck around. I never realized till I dropped it off for service and they gave me the 1.5 which flew around compared to it....

I never liked the interior but when I started looking at electric cars I gave the Leaf a decent shot, I was really considering buying. Mostly as it was cheap. In the end I couldn’t do it.....the Ioniq was potentially an option but once I drove the EGolf that was it.....

Now I never test drove the i3 and I probably regret that but I felt it was too small.....

I’m not sure why you said the eGolf is smaller than the Leaf?

babybuilder

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Don’t complain about the 1.5 engine, I had a qashqai AWD with the 1.6 engine, if felt like driving a truck around. I never realized till I dropped it off for service and they gave me the 1.5 which flew around compared to it....

I never liked the interior but when I started looking at electric cars I gave the Leaf a decent shot, I was really considering buying. Mostly as it was cheap. In the end I couldn’t do it.....the Ioniq was potentially an option but once I drove the EGolf that was it.....

Now I never test drove the i3 and I probably regret that but I felt it was too small.....

I’m not sure why you said the eGolf is smaller than the Leaf?

Externally the leaf is bigger than the golf but you're right, the golf is bigger inside.

unkel

babybuilder wrote: »

Externally the leaf is bigger than the golf but you're right, the golf is bigger inside.

Nah. Unless your family consists of very small people, you'll struggle to fit a family of 5 into a Golf. And don't even think of using child seats.

Great car, the eGolf, but it is small. The Golf always was small. I remember going on a test drive with my father back in '78 (Jaysus 40 years ago - showing my age here) and the Mk1 Golf was too small for the 3 of us in the back (aged 10, 8 and 7 - no child seats anymore at that age back then). We got an Opel Ascona instead

Shefwedfan

If you buy the right car seats it will work. I had 2 adults, 3 kids and a dog in mine :-) It was not bought for that many people and I have Galaxy for those large family trips....Once we had the seats in right it was comfortable for the 200km round trip

Most days I have me plus 2 kids so it is perfect.

babybuilder

Just one booster seat now out of the three children. Do have a dog though but less of a military exercise when going to visit. I emailed VW in Dublin to request a test drive. By all accounts I won't be expecting a prompt response.

glynf

Just a few words regarding the egolf, we got one three months ago-bought as a commuter car; it does a 130 Km round trip each day (65 Km each way, first 56Km motorway last 9km stop start 60 Kph urban). There is about 50-60 Km range left returning home every evening-the cold weather has an impact on charging level, also factor in the heating and wipers etc. If its just knocking about in 60-80Kph zone,s 200Km> range is easily do-able.

Great car to drive, very smooth and planted on the road, lots of torque, no rattles or squeaks and plenty fast for overtaking and merging etc.

Its ideal for us (two adults and a 11 year old), but I would not recommend for a larger family-it does have isofix but again, its not a large car. Fit and finish is great, lots of decent kit included, LED everything, auto lights with auto dimming headlights, adaptive cruise, android auto etc.

Extras we went with are reversing camera, the full digital instrument panel/binnacle which is incredibly useful-I thought it would be a gimmick but its great for the sat nav especially. And also heated seats, a must have IMO for a BEV, as it saves a lot if charge by substanially cutting down on the amount of time the aircon & heater is in use.

Delighted with it so far, so much so the second ICE car (171 CX5 commercial, I use it for work so need the space) will be gone as soon as there is a decent mid-sized estate available-if the next 3 series BEV comes out with a 90Kw battery and 5 doors I'm sold.

Shefwedfan

babybuilder wrote: »

Just one booster seat now out of the three children. Do have a dog though but less of a military exercise when going to visit. I emailed VW in Dublin to request a test drive. By all accounts I won't be expecting a prompt response.

You need to go to VW Liffey Valley and email is a very slow response time. I do have direct email for the guy who looks after the electric cars but on other laptop and I am away till next week...I can send it on then.....best bet is to ring them direct and ask.......

babybuilder

Emailed Liffey valley and sales got back fairly quickly. Anyway I've arranged a test drive in February as I'll be in Dublin for the day.

Also will try to get a drive in the new leaf. Thanks for all the help and advice.

boiledkitten

babybuilder wrote: »

Emailed Liffey valley and sales got back fairly quickly. Anyway I've arranged a test drive in February as I'll be in Dublin for the day.

Also will try to get a drive in the new leaf. Thanks for all the help and advice.

Was thinking the same myself last October, even called in but the sales guy I spoke to there was useless. got the impression very quickly that they aren't trying to sell them at all. Tried Hutton & Meade in Blanchardstown as well who do Nissan and Hyundai and same story. They had no details on the Leaf 2.Zero and was told there were supply issues around getting the electric ionic. Luckily Stopped by Windsor Belgard who were really helpful, hope to take delivery of the 2.Zero in February.  Checking through the tech specs the leaf offers far more than other EV models currently available.

Shefwedfan

boiledkitten wrote: »

Was thinking the same myself last October, even called in but the sales guy I spoke to there was useless. got the impression very quickly that they aren't trying to sell them at all. Tried Hutton & Meade in Blanchardstown as well who do Nissan and Hyundai and same story. They had no details on the Leaf 2.Zero and was told there were supply issues around getting the electric ionic. Luckily Stopped by Windsor Belgard who were really helpful, hope to take delivery of the 2.Zero in February. Checking through the tech specs the leaf offers far more than other EV models currently available.

Going to VW this week so will give feedback

In regards to Hutton and Meade, I found them brillant. The guy had all the information and was willing to negotiate. I didnt buy in the end off them as he only really had a Leaf but I had bought a Qashqai off them before....

Windsor Belgard seemed ok on electric, I did buy a Galaxy off them so it wasnt the main topic of conversation. The guy Stephen seemed to know what he was talking about when it came to electric cars, he said he used to drive one but I think he said he doesn't anymore....

Do not go to Windsor Clonee, they are a disaster for electric cars, really an after thought it seems......plus they priced a good few k more expensive compared to Hutton and Meade.....

80sDiesel

maclek wrote: »

A couple of questions on these responses.

Is the €600 grant for a charger available if you are doing a company purchase? The SEAI implies it isn't.

Which cars use CCS? I think the leaf 2 is only CHAdeMO and type 2?

What's the deal with the 22kw type 2 chargers that seem to be all over the place? Does this require a car that supports 22kw ac? The leaf 2 only supports 6.6kw ac so will only charge at that rate except at CHAdeMO chargers?

Hoping to get my leaf 2 in the first batch next month.

thanks

Nice little video on the different chargers.
https://youtu.be/gmMl4c_Ydb4

goz83

80sDiesel wrote: »

Nice little video on the different chargers.
https://youtu.be/gmMl4c_Ydb4

That's an old video. The cards don't get used anymore. It's all done via the app. Here =>

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=momt5L-hPxQ

It's worth noting that currently there is no connection fee and ecotricity charge 30p per kWh.

boiledkitten

Shefwedfan wrote: »

boiledkitten wrote: »

Was thinking the same myself last October, even called in but the sales guy I spoke to there was useless. got the impression very quickly that they aren't trying to sell them at all. Tried Hutton & Meade in Blanchardstown as well who do Nissan and Hyundai and same story. They had no details on the Leaf 2.Zero and was told there were supply issues around getting the electric ionic. Luckily Stopped by Windsor Belgard who were really helpful, hope to take delivery of the 2.Zero in February.  Checking through the tech specs the leaf offers far more than other EV models currently available.

Going to VW this week so will give feedback

In regards to Hutton and Meade, I found them brillant. The guy had all the information and was willing to negotiate.  I didnt buy in the end off them as he only really had a Leaf but I had bought a Qashqai off them before....

Windsor Belgard seemed ok on electric, I did buy a Galaxy off them so it wasnt the main topic of conversation. The guy Stephen seemed to know what he was talking about when it came to electric cars, he said he used to drive one but I think he said he doesn't anymore....

Do not go to Windsor Clonee, they are a disaster for electric cars, really an after thought it seems......plus they priced a good few k more expensive compared to Hutton and Meade.....

That's mad, the sales guy I was talking to in H&M Blanch was a complete ballbag, he had a big moan about how Nissan hadn't given them any details about the new leaf (this was the week after the Nissan Ireland launch) and went on a whole "electric cars are sh1t compared to this lovely diesel" ramble. Left my details etc and they still haven't called.
A Mate had recommended Windsor Belgard and he wasn't wrong. Stephen was full of info and very helpful to deal with and the car was ordered with no drama.
Get the feeling that a lot of dealers are starting to go into panic mode about EV's.

Lantus

The leaf is probably going to be the class leader of the other three main options in term of range and overall offering.

A bigger battery is already planned so I'm looking at 2019 or 2020 for mine.

liamog

Lantus wrote: »

The leaf is probably going to be the class leader of the other three main options in term of range and overall offering.

A bigger battery is already planned so I'm looking at 2019 or 2020 for mine.

There's the Kona due this year too, I'd expect it to hit for 191, with dealer demos around September. Two battery sizes resulting in a 240km or 390km range.

boiledkitten

Yep, and don't forget the Jaguar I-Pace due for 182 and the Audi E-Tron and Merc for 191.

80sDiesel

Lantus wrote: »

The leaf is probably going to be the class leader of the other three main options in term of range and overall offering.

A bigger battery is already planned so I'm looking at 2019 or 2020 for mine.

The VW ID(hatchback) will be debuted next yr with sales in 2020. There are also rumors that they might bring the crossover at the same time.

https://www.autoevolution.com/news/vw-s-id-crozz-electric-crossover-launch-might-skip-ahead-one-year-to-2019-122618.html

Lantus

boiledkitten wrote:

Yep, and don't forget the Jaguar I-Pace due for 182 and the Audi E-Tron and Merc for 191.

That's great news. Plus the others mentioned in adjacent posts. I don't believe I'll be able to afford these but it's good to see none the less.

ELM327

Lantus wrote: »

That's great news. Plus the others mentioned in adjacent posts. I don't believe I'll be able to afford these but it's good to see none the less.

If they prove to be real competition for Tesla that can only be a good thing for all of us IMO. Once they don't put Tesla out of business that is!

Shefwedfan

80sDiesel wrote: »

The VW ID(hatchback) will be debuted next yr with sales in 2020. There are also rumors that they might bring the crossover at the same time.

https://www.autoevolution.com/news/vw-s-id-crozz-electric-crossover-launch-might-skip-ahead-one-year-to-2019-122618.html

That has kind of made up my mind, dont think I will swap the eGolf this year.....hold on and then swap it next year with new car in 2020

Shefwedfan

Lantus wrote: »

The leaf is probably going to be the class leader of the other three main options in term of range and overall offering.

A bigger battery is already planned so I'm looking at 2019 or 2020 for mine.

For electric cars to go mainstream the choice will need to be better than a Leaf......

It's a decent car but not going to meet the requirements of every driver

ELM327

Shefwedfan wrote: »

For electric cars to go mainstream the choice will need to be better than a Leaf......

It's a decent car but not going to meet the requirements of every driver

It's a decent/good EV (not a great one).
Agreed.... it is far off reaching the required standards for mass adaption.

80sDiesel

Shefwedfan wrote: »

That has kind of made up my mind, dont think I will swap the eGolf this year.....hold on and then swap it next year with new car in 2020

This is an extended detail review of the ID cross by a car reviewer I follow.

https://youtu.be/DETZNTPml7M

Lantus

Shefwedfan wrote:

For electric cars to go mainstream the choice will need to be better than a Leaf......

Shefwedfan wrote:

It's a decent car but not going to meet the requirements of every driver

ELM327 wrote:

It's a decent/good EV (not a great one). Agreed.... it is far off reaching the required standards for mass adaption.

Yes we need more ev choice! Technology is the key to improvement in this regard.

The car industry can be thankful in some regard to Nissan for demonstrating how well people take to and enjoy an ev experience. They will make it mainstream but Nissan had to fight tooth and nail to convince people to even try it. Whatever ev I buy in the future we can all owe some not insignificant thanks to Nissan's accomplishment in that regard.

waynegalway

ELM327 wrote: »

It's a decent/good EV (not a great one).
Agreed.... it is far off reaching the required standards for mass adaption.

Hard to know, really.

The new one seems to be able to do well over 200km from a charge, which statistically is more range than most people need. Especially if they can charge at home (and to a lesser extent if the public network is reliable). Sure, there are "better" EVs than the LEAF, but all things considered (size and price in particular) it's probably the closest car to becoming adopted by the masses right now.

EVs come down to individual use cases, and so a one-size-fits-all EV is a bit like a unicorn. Even with ICE cars, there is no one-size-fits-all or single model that has had mass adoption. There always has been choice in cars, and there's no reason why that won't continue. If most people who drive ICE cars sat down and fully thought it through, a 200km range EV would probably suit them. Not everyone, of course, but a LOT of people. It's the mindset of "but I need 600km from a tank" that needs to be overcome more than anything else, I think.

ELM327

Unless there's a super advancement in tech (eg Nokia to iPhone), people will not "overcome" the range limitation.
So it needs to be abetter product before mass adaoption.
As someone who has done 60k km in a 24kWh leaf I'm well aware of the limitations.

Shefwedfan

Lantus wrote: »

Yes we need more ev choice! Technology is the key to improvement in this regard.

The car industry can be thankful in some regard to Nissan for demonstrating how well people take to and enjoy an ev experience. They will make it mainstream but Nissan had to fight tooth and nail to convince people to even try it. Whatever ev I buy in the future we can all owe some not insignificant thanks to Nissan's accomplishment in that regard.

I dont want to get the thread off subject but I actually think Tesla has done more than Nissan ever done....

8 years now since Nissan launched the Leaf, it was just seen as a quirky car....most of the questions about range etc come from people orginally looking at the Leaf and thinking it wasn't fit for purpose.....they should have released the Gen 2 with the 30kW battery....the Leaf was just too "odd" for mass sales.....

Nissan also could and should have pushed out more models.....why no Qashqai electric?......at least Toyota picked Hybrid and now the full range is hybrid

Nissan had the jump on the market but failed to take the advantage, Hyundai will have more electric models available soon and they only released the Ioniq last year.....

Once the Tesla media engine got up and running suddenly everyone is talking about electric cars.....Tesla also pushed the other vendors to start taking an interest.....now every company has an electric car policy......

goz83

ELM327 wrote: »

Unless there's a super advancement in tech (eg Nokia to iPhone) reversal of the stupid 2008 motor tax reduction for diesel, people will not "overcome" the range limitation.
So it needs to be abetter product before mass adaoption.
As someone who has done 60k km in a 24kWh leaf I'm well aware of the limitations.

Steer them by the pocket.

Shefwedfan wrote: »

I dont want to get the thread off subject but I actually think Tesla has done more than Nissan ever done....

8 years now since Nissan launched the Leaf, it was just seen as a quirky car....most of the questions about range etc come from people orginally looking at the Leaf and thinking it wasn't fit for purpose.....they should have released the Gen 2 with the 30kW battery....the Leaf was just too "odd" for mass sales.....

Nissan also could and should have pushed out more models.....why no Qashqai electric?......at least Toyota picked Hybrid and now the full range is hybrid

Nissan had the jump on the market but failed to take the advantage, Hyundai will have more electric models available soon and they only released the Ioniq last year.....

Once the Tesla media engine got up and running suddenly everyone is talking about electric cars.....Tesla also pushed the other vendors to start taking an interest.....now every company has an electric car policy......

There is no doubt in my mind that Tesla has been the real push for EVs, but we can't forget that Teslas were and are still largely unaffordable for us peasants. The Nissan Leaf was at a price the ordinary man could afford and this was and remains to be a big boost in EV adoption. Nissan could have and should have done much more. They made a great decision with the Leaf, but failed to progress at a reasonable rate thereafter. Leaf 2 should have been ready released in 2016 definitely.