Sold a motorbike 7 years ago. Still in my name?

DrPhilG

Strange story this one...

7 and a bit years ago I sold my motorbike. I had lost the log book so I contacted the tax office at the council. They sent me some forms to complete (which I did) and they said that the new owner would receive notification that it was now in his name, along with a new log book.

Fast forward to now, the guy who lives in my old house contacts me to say that the fella showed up looking for me. Says that he had an accident and wrote off the bike, but when he contacted the insurance to make a claim they said that he was not the registered owner.

Is it just me or does this sound fishy? How could he have taxed and insured it for the last 7 years if it wasn't in his name and he didn't have a log book?

And surely tax notifications etc would still have been arriving to my house if the bike was still in my name and address?

I told the guy in my old house to give him my number if he shows again. I'm just wondering if this is some kind of scam.

Edgarfrndly

Give your local office a call and double check.

DrPhilG

Edgarfrndly wrote: »

Give your local office a call and double check.

Planning to do that tomorrow. Just sounds really odd!

My first thought was that I might have forgotten to send off the forms.

But the lack of any communication regarding tax etc since then would make that highly unlikely.

DrPhilG

!!!!!!!

The bike is still in my name! The Motor Tax Office say that they never received the documentation back in 2010 and the bike remains in my name. They want me to send in another RF100 ownership form and get it into his name.

The reason I never got any tax reminders or documentation is because it was never taxed. I imported it when I moved back from Derry in 2006 but it sat in my garage for 4 years because I was back in a car at that point. Never bothered taxing or insuring it and then sold it in 2010.

The downside for the guy who bought it is that once it is correctly transferred into his name, he will be stung for 7 years of back tax (about €500).

The question now for me is what is he after? If he has left himself with void insurance due to not being the registered owner is he going to try and sting me for his claim?

He wouldn't give any information or contact details to the guy he spoke to in my old house the other day so I have no clue now what is happening. If he shows up again I've told the fella to give him my number. But this all stinks to be honest.

godtabh

I would say it’s his responsibility. You sent the forms. After that it’s job done. If didn’t receive the updated log book he should have chased it up. He didn’t. He didn’t pay tax. All down to him.

DrPhilG

I know it's all down to him and I shouldn't have any legal accountability, but I don't fancy having to argue it out.

The bike itself was worth damn all, I think he paid under a grand for it. It's now a 17 year old 125cc bike so fairly worthless I would think. And if he wants me to put it into his name he'll be liable for a €500 back tax bill which is undoubtedly more than the bike is worth.

I'm just wondering if he has crashed it into someone else and it's their bill he's trying to send my way.

Isambard

Change of ownership would wipe the arrears out.

DrPhilG

Isambard wrote: »

Change of ownership would wipe the arrears out.

Change of ownership dated now would wipe the arrears out.

Change of ownership dated accurately would not.

The bike lay in my garage for 4 years and the tax office confirmed that I am not liable for any tax for that period. But he will be.

If he's expecting me to falsely date the change of ownership then he's mistaken. Firstly it's dishonest and secondly he's had the thing insured in his name for 7 years and there is an email trail between myself and the local tax office where they sent me the paperwork to complete and send to Shannon.

Plus presumably a backdated change of ownership form wouldn't dig him out of the insurance issue he is having.

Isambard

DrPhilG wrote: »

Change of ownership dated now would wipe the arrears out.

Change of ownership dated accurately would not.

The bike lay in my garage for 4 years and the tax office confirmed that I am not liable for any tax for that period. But he will be.

If he's expecting me to falsely date the change of ownership then he's mistaken. Firstly it's dishonest and secondly he's had the thing insured in his name for 7 years and there is an email trail between myself and the local tax office where they sent me the paperwork to complete and send to Shannon.

Plus presumably a backdated change of ownership form wouldn't dig him out of the insurance issue he is having.

no he won't , not unless he wants to tax it himself. Once it's in his name he merely sells it to someone else and the tax goes away. Arrears are not payable until or unless he taxes it himself.

DrPhilG

Isambard wrote: »

no he won't , not unless he wants to tax it himself. Once it's in his name he merely sells it to someone else and the tax goes away. Arrears are not payable until or unless he taxes it himself.

Thanks!

That's not so bad then. If I send away the paperwork then he will not be chased for the tax unless he goes to tax it which I presume he isn't likely to given (a)he never tried up til now and (b)he has written it off!

On that note, if the bike has been written off by his insurer then will ownership transfer to them or just cease? If the bike was intact he could transfer ownership to his wife/dad/neighbour etc and wipe the tax arrears but is that possible if the bike has been officially written off?

DrPhilG

The only other question is whether his insurance company will just void his insurance and pat themselves on the back for avoiding the claim, or whether they will allow him to provide a new certificate showing that the ownership officially changed in August 2010 and then honour the policy.

frozenfrozen

must have been a fairly bad accident to go to insurance over a 17 year old 125cc bike worth <500?

Isambard

DrPhilG wrote: »

Thanks!

That's not so bad then. If I send away the paperwork then he will not be chased for the tax unless he goes to tax it which I presume he isn't likely to given (a)he never tried up til now and (b)he has written it off!

On that note, if the bike has been written off by his insurer then will ownership transfer to them or just cease? If the bike was intact he could transfer ownership to his wife/dad/neighbour etc and wipe the tax arrears but is that possible if the bike has been officially written off?

I wouldn't worry about it, as you say he's unlikely to tax it anyway, seeing as he never has, and it sounds like it's not likely to go back on the road.

Do what you've done so far, play it straight, it's his worry not yours.

DrPhilG

frozenfrozen wrote: »

must have been a fairly bad accident to go to insurance over a 17 year old 125cc bike worth <500?

Exactly.

So either he has hurt himself in the process and is taking an injury claim or he has hit someone else and they are claiming.

I wouldn't have thought many would bother with fully comp on an old chicken chaser bike like that so I'm assuming it's the latter.

If that's the case then I wonder if:
(a)his insurance company have laughed him out and he's blaming me for the ownership issue and wants a pound of flesh/euros.
(b)his insurance company have told him to prove his ownership of the bike by getting the paperwork done now.

If it's A he can go jump. If it's B I have no problem helping out.

IrishGrimReaper

I wonder how long he has insured it and with who, when he's been applying for his insurance he's declaring to the Insurer that the bike is his own. Has he not been paying his tax because he's one of those people who isn't arsed taxing a old bike or did he think he could get away with it since it wasn't in his name?

If he had an accident and injured someone else the insurer would be obliged to pay third party costs, but if they discover he's technically not the owner of the bike, they could try sue him for the costs, he's misrepresented to his insurer about ownership, deliberate or not.

DrPhilG

I would suspect he just thought he would get away with not paying tax on an old banger.

Isambard

Just as well he doesn't speed or use Tolls!

DrPhilG

DrPhilG wrote: »

Strange story this one...

And getting stranger!

Made contact with the fella tonight. He isn't actually the guy I sold the bike to at all. The guy I sold it to, sold it to someone else. The someone else passed away, his family sold the bike to a 3rd person and that person has taken the bike back over the border to the North.

No idea where the insurance story came from, some serious crossed wires.

Basically the guy I spoke to is fixing up the bike for the person who bought it. He was looking for the tax book in order to register it in the North and the search for the tax book took him to the Tax Office in Shannon, who gave him my name and old address, (isn't that a breach of confidentiality BTW?)

I don't think he is keen to go ahead with changing it into his name. He's worried about being stung for the tax even though he only took the hike on recently. Plus now that there are extra links in the chain of ownership, I have no way to get the name of who I sold it to, because that person sold it on and the guy he sold it to is dead!

Basically the guy who is currently fixing it up has a load of bike parts around and he's going to strip the parts and rebuild it on a frame he has in his garage. Thus essentially scrapping the old bike and rebuilding it onto a frame that he does have a tax book for.

I'll just have to speak to the Motor Tax office in Shannon next week and explain to them that I don't know and have no way of finding out the details of the guy I sold the bike to. Not sure if they can then declare it off road or disposed of etc.

What an entirely bizarre situation.

IrishGrimReaper

That's a huge breach of data protection right there if true. Make sure you say it to them if you call.