Hall or Living Room Smart Lighting Design Help Please

davidod1

Hi All,
I was thinking about trying to incorporate a bit of smart lighting in my house, but I am not sure if any of the currently available systems will work with my particular configuration.

I have attached a simple diagram of the hallway layout in the hope that it might make it a little more clear what the setup is.

Tree important things to note though. One is that two of the two way switches are two gang and one is a three gang switch. The second thing is that I want the lighting to be compatible with my Google Home Assistant; if not now compatibility expected in the near future. The last thing is that all the walls are solid concrete so rerouting cables or additions would not be an easy proposition, but would be considered.

The living room is somewhat similar in that there are a total of five wall lights with one two-way switch and one three way switch. If i could come up with an achievable way of doing something interesting with either or both of the locations I would give it a go.

Any suggestions would be very welcome.

bk

Well one option is to simply forget about the light switches and go with Philips Hue Smart lights.

2 x Hue Motion Sensors, 4 Hue lights (you don't mention the bulb/light type) and a Hue hub could cover that hall nicely. No need for switches, lights switch on and off automatically as you pass through the hall. This is what I've done in my hall and it is very nice, no messing with switches.

Same with the living room, but with a Hue Dimmer switch or two. You can set them up then in whatever combination you want.

Would all work with Google Home

davidod1

Thanks BK. Yes I thought of Hue but they work independently don't they? I really wouldn't like four different bulbs going on and off as they saw fit. We tend to switch on the pair that we need at the time or sometimes all four. There are two wall lights per section; all E14 (SES) fittings.

bk

davidod1 wrote: »

Thanks BK. Yes I thought of Hue but they work independently don't they? I really wouldn't like four different bulbs going on and off as they saw fit. We tend to switch on the pair that we need at the time or sometimes all four. There are two wall lights per section; all E14 (SES) fittings.

Nope, that is one of the advantages of Hue, it is all in software, so you can group the lights anyway you like and change it however you like. Very flexible.

For instance, given the shape of your hall, I suspect you would need two Hue motion sensors to properly cover it. However you can set them up, so that if either of the sensors detects movement, all the lights in the hall come on. Or if you prefer, you can group one set of lights with one sensor and the other group of lights with the second sensor.

Or you can use Hue Dimmer switches instead and group two lights to one button and the other two to the other button, etc.

davidod1

OK, Hue sounds interesting. The two two-gang switches; could I change those switches to singles and permanently wire the second (gang) to on. Not sure about connecting the PIR though. I assume it would require both live and neutral; not easy given that all the wires are in plaster.

bk

davidod1 wrote: »

OK, Hue sounds interesting. The two two-gang switches; could I change those switches to singles and permanently wire the second (gang) to on. Not sure about connecting the PIR though. I assume it would require both live and neutral; not easy given that all the wires are in plaster.

Most likely, but you might need an electrician depending on your skills.

The Hue motion sensors are battery operated, no need to be wired.

davidod1

No problem changing the switches - I wired the house originally. The PIR being battery operated makes it all possible. A lot of food for thought there BK. Thanks for all the info and suggestions.

Shlippery

+1 to all BK said, even though I've a small hall, the Hue + Sensor combo is the best. You'll never touch a switch again.

bk

Shlippery wrote: »

+1 to all BK said, even though I've a small hall, the Hue + Sensor combo is the best. You'll never touch a switch again.

I've this setup only a few weeks now, but it has already proven well worth it. My hall is completely enclosed with no natural light, so it was always a pain struggling into the hall with a buggy or shopping and struggling with light switches and security panels.

Also having to flick on the switch every time you walk through the hall going to the toilet, etc. was a pain.

So everyone in the family now loves this and it has been a big success and made it much easier.

BTW of course you could also just have the lights on all the time at a low level using something like the sunset routine if you prefer that to motion sensors.

davidod1

Thanks Shlippery. Yes it looks like BKs suggestion is the best option alright. Because of the price of the Philips bulbs I was wondering about some of the alternatives; Osram and Innr seem to be compatible. Also thinking that the Ambience bulbs would be fine. I don't think I would benefit from the coloured ones in the hall and corridor.

bk

davidod1 wrote: »

Thanks Shlippery. Yes it looks like BKs suggestion is the best option alright. Because of the price of the Philips bulbs I was wondering about some of the alternatives; Osram and Innr seem to be compatible. Also thinking that the Ambience bulbs would be fine. I don't think I would benefit from the coloured ones in the hall and corridor.

A couple of options:

Hue is often reduced during sales. The perfect time to buy would have been over the last few weeks, there were lots of sales. If you aren't in a rush to do this, you could wait to the next sales. Amazon Prime Day sales in the summer would be the next major one. Though worth keeping an eye out throughout the year. You can use camelcamelcamel or this forum to do that.

Another option is the Ikea smart bulbs, which are very similar to Hue. Though not as mature. In particular I'm not sure if you could link two motion sensors in the hall to all the lights like you can in Hue, it is an "advanced" lab feature in Hue.

You can also possibly link the Ikea bulbs with the Hue hub. Though there are some gotchas with this. Actually the bulbs in my hall are the cheapest Ikea ones hooked up to the Hue bridge and using Hue motion sensors.

And as you say their are the Innr, bulbs, etc. Though I haven't tried them, so I can't vouch for them.

Actually now that I think of it, you mentioned your fittings are E14, I think only Hue makes bulbs with this fitting. So the above might not be an option unless you are willing to change fittings.

I use white only in the hall, so I agree that or white Ambiance is probably fine in the hall. For the living room at least White Ambiance or even Colour.

davidod1

Loads of great info BK - thanks. No not in a rush, but still might pursue it soon than later.
I like the fittings for my hall lights and really want to change them. I did consider getting some E14 to E27 adaptors. My only concern was the increased height of the bulb. I do think that two sensors will be a requirement given bedrooms and a stairs at that end of the corridor. So Hue it is - just a matter of waiting for the best price. I'll put it in to CamelCamelCamel.

bk

Actually I just checked and it turns out Ikea do have E14's, €15 for their equivalent of White Ambiance.

Might work with Hue. Depends on the age of the firmware on the bulb. If it is an older firmware then you need the Ikea hub to update it, before you can pair the bulb with the Hue bridge. If it is a newer firmware then it might pair with Hue out of the box.

No guarantees though.

davidod1

Huge difference in price. I might check and see if there has been any success in pairing them with the Hue system. Thanks for the suggestion.

wexfordman2

davidod1 wrote: »

OK, Hue sounds interesting. The two two-gang switches; could I change those switches to singles and permanently wire the second (gang) to on. Not sure about connecting the PIR though. I assume it would require both live and neutral; not easy given that all the wires are in plaster.

Is there a neutral at the switch, if so you could look at an inline zigbee switch or maybe sonoff ?

davidod1

No neutral; only the live.

bk

davidod1 wrote: »

Huge difference in price. I might check and see if there has been any success in pairing them with the Hue system. Thanks for the suggestion.

You could pick up a Hue bridge and one bulb to try it out. If it works and you are happy with it, then buy more of those bulbs and the Hue motion sensors.

BTW look at for the bridges second hand on ebay/adverts. A lot of people end up getting multiple Hue bridges as part of bundle deals and then selling them.

Though factor in that you might have to get the Ikea hub if the firmware is wrong. It costs €32

wexfordman2

davidod1 wrote: »

No neutral; only the live.

Think some of them work without a neutral but they would be dimmers, so you would need dimmable LEDs with them

davidod1

Think I'll do as BK suggests and pick up a Hub; looking out for one EBay. Maybe by the time that comes through; the latest firmware bulbs might be in stock in IKEA and I can try a bulb.

Thanks to all for the advice and suggestions.

wexfordman2

davidod1 wrote: »

Think I'll do as BK suggests and pick up a Hub; looking out for one EBay. Maybe by the time that comes through; the latest firmware bulbs might be in stock in IKEA and I can try a bulb.

Thanks to all for the advice and suggestions.

Was in Harvey Norma's today and the had a hue starter pack I think for 99 euro which had two colour bulbs, a hub and a switch, not a bad process, nearly bought it myself but held my nerve :-)

Edit, sorry think it was 199 , not 99,

davidod1

Well; right or wrong I had a look on EBay and came across a few new Hubs as BK suggested. Bought one for €37. I'll sus out the PIR and maybe other controls and of course I'll try an IKEA bulb and see what happens.

Again thanks to all who came up with great help and advice. Looking forward to getting going at it and hopefully it'll benefit all in the house.

davidod1

UPDATE:

I haven't yet been able to get my proposed lighting up and running as yet. I have a Philips Hub (new model) but I don't have any bulbs. I was hoping to get some of the IKEA Trådfri but they are out of stock of the SES type. Unfortunately all my fittings are SES.

Obviously at this stage I have no experience of the Philips app so I would like to know if my proposals are feasible using that app or another compatible app.

I have attached an updated drawing of my proposal. You will see from it that I am hoping to be able to split the lights in to two groups for nighttime use and to control as a single group for regular hours. I would like to have the two lights at the bedroom end PIR activated at a very low brightness during sleeping hours, but the lights at the hall end may be brighter.

During regular hours; when daylight fades; I would like all four (both groups) to come on when activated by PIR at the normal or preset brightness.

With the Philips app well matured by now I would hope that this should be all be feasible. Hopefully someone will be able to confirm for me.

Thanks for any help received.

bk

So no guarantees, what you are trying to do is a little advanced, but yes I think it can be done with s special routine from Philips Hue Labs.

So What I think you are aiming for is something like.
- Two groups of lights: Front Hall, back hall
- All lights come on full brightness at sunset and stay on until say 11pm (just example) and then go off
- After 11, if the front hall lights detect movement, then they come on full brightness and if the back hall lights detect movement they come on dimmed.

Those that sound like it?

If yes, then do something like:
- Front Hall group, those two lights and one motion sensor
- Back hall group, those two lights and another motion sensor
- A separate sunset routine for each group that turns on the lights at sunset and off at 11pm
- The "Don Not Disturb" scene from the Hue Labs on each of these groups.
- Then a motion sensor routine on each of these groups, one that triggers full brightness on that group when motion detected and the other that triggers dimmed when motion detected.

It will take a lot of patient to set up, but yes, I think it is doable.

bk

Acttualy change that a bit.

All lights in one room called Hall.
Sunset routine that turns on all lights at sunset and back off at 11pm
Front sensor set up to a scene that includes just the two lights in the front of that hall and turns them on at full brightness
Back hall sensor set up to a scene that just the two lights in the back of that hall and turns them on at dimmed
The "Do Not Disturb" routine from Hue Labs to make sure that the motion sensors don't over-ride the sunset routine until after 11.

A bit easier that way I think.

davidod1

bk wrote: »

- All lights come on full brightness at sunset and stay on until say 11pm (just example) and then go off
- After 11, if the front hall lights detect movement, then they come on full brightness and if the back hall lights detect movement they come on dimmed.

Thanks BK for putting all that thought in to it. Although I don't think it will make much of a difference; I don't necessarily want the lights to stay on from sunset until 11 pm. I would prefer them to be PIR activated. The rest of your assessment is bang-on.

So it looks that with a bit of experimentation it should be possible. So next up is two PIRs and the IKEA bulbs when they come back in to stock. I assume it would be better to stick with the Philps PIRs rather than the IKEA ones?

bk

Ah, in that case it is a lot simpler. Forget about the sunset routine and "Do Not Disturb" thing.

The motion sensors have an option to trigger only if the light level is below a certain level. So if the motion sensor detects movement and it is bright, then the lights won't come on. But if it is dark they will.

Definitely get the Hue sensors. The Ikea ones don't work with the Hue bridge.

davidod1

Thanks for all that help BK. For the nest step I'll need to wait until the IKEA bulbs are in stock but in the mean time I'll look for a deal on the PIRs.