Lexus Ct200h or Citroen Ds5 hybrid

Kalel

I trying to decide between a 2012 ct200h or a 2013 Ds5 hybrid.. The ds has me with the hp (200 combined) but is a diesel and the lexus with reliability (currently have a lexus is250 for last 3years and is been rock solid) I only do around 20km a day mostly city driving but don't want a full ev as yet. Any owners that can give their experiences day to day of either would be a great help. From what I've read I thinking the lexus had the better battery pack and can go further on that alone but the DS has a fantastic interior and looks a lovely place to be while stuck in traffic. Any help would be greatly appreciated

goz83

If you do such little mileage, why not go full EV?

Anyhow...I can't really comment on the cars you've listed other than to say that the Lexus is much easier on the eye and any Diesel should be crushed, not bought.

bp_me

It's usually said that the heat cycles are wrong for diesels to work as hybrids.

The CT200h is the same car as the Toyota auris though manages to burn more petrol for some reason.

q85dw7osi4lebg

I'm going to be really unhelpful and say that if I was only doing 5k a year I'd be buying something in the 1800 + tax bracket.

From the above two, the Lexus would be my preference. No need for the higher output in the Citroen if you are mainly doing city driving. Much better looking car with the usual reliability.

colm_mcm

The Lexus isn't really about running on the battery alone. You don't plug it in so the battery is really about getting better mpg. The engine will still fire up when you turn it on in the morning, and the battery charge has to come from somewhere (driving). It has an EV mode, but it's only a gimmick. If you're in a situation where running on battery alone is best (stop-start traffic for example) the car will already know that. Running the battery down to near empty just means you don't have the assist there later on when it would be of benefit. Treat it as a 'knocking down pedestrians/sneaking out of the house' mode (provided the engine is warmed up)

Patser

I'll give this reply a huge health warning - I'm currently selling my 2012 Ds5 hybrid.

But I had that same decision 2 years when I chose the Citroën. I've a longer daily drive than you, which contributed to choice but mainly it was that the Citroën was a much rarer, much nicer car to look at and be in. The Dsport spec I have really does have every creature comfort and a very solid high quality feel.

I've had no issues with it, although fuel consumption isn't astronomically low - I knew before that a regular diesel Ds5 will often outperform it - but made choice based an much better rear suspension that regular Ds5 (early years, from 2015 they improved it), and extra feature of 4wd and power.

CT200H I can't really comment on as an owner, just that when looking at it it lacked the wow factor of Citroën when I was comparing

NIMAN

Patser wrote: »

I'll give this reply a huge health warning - I'm currently selling my 2012 Ds5 hybrid.

But I had that same decision 2 years when I chose the Citroën. I've a longer daily drive than you, which contributed to choice but mainly it was that the Citroën was a much rarer, much nicer car to look at and be in. The Dsport spec I have really does have every creature comfort and a very solid high quality feel.

I've had no issues with it, although fuel consumption isn't astronomically low - I knew before that a regular diesel Ds5 will often outperform it - but made choice based an much better rear suspension that regular Ds5 (early years, from 2015 they improved it), and extra feature of 4wd and power.

CT200H I can't really comment on as an owner, just that when looking at it it lacked the wow factor of Citroën when I was comparing

So did you not like the DS5? Why so say health warning?

I had seen one in the flesh before when I was changing car last time round, and I was severely tempted. It's a gorgeous looking car, and the interior looks fantastic. But the reviews put me off, plus the thought of massive depreciation.

Patser

NIMAN wrote: »

So did you not like the DS5? Why so say health warning?

I had seen one in the flesh before when I was changing car last time round, and I was severely tempted. It's a gorgeous looking car, and the interior looks fantastic. But the reviews put me off, plus the thought of massive depreciation.

No I really like the DS5, I'm just forever looking to try the next thing. So right now I'm hunting an i3 (which given the OP's commute might suit him). I want to try all electric.

The health warning was more that I was going to be very positive about the car, but didn't want to come across as if trying to push my own.

Kalel

Thanks for all the replies.. 
I know I'm not the usual Hybrid purchaser as I don't really care about fuel Consumption etc ,its just I do such low millage and a lot of that been stop start, all cars since 2008 seem to be Diesel's (not good for my type of journeys) or have 1.1l Petrol engines  plus I just really like the look of both of these cars especially the interiors.
InstaSte
I understand where you are coming from and normally would 100% agree with you. I have been paying over 1k in Motor Tax on nearly all my cars in recent years and the wife's is 1200 a year at the moment. Just thinking it would be nice for once to pay only €180-€200 a year for a while even though I will be paying more for the car itself, madness I know but I am prone to a bit of insanity now and again.
@Patser
[font=Open Sans, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Thanks for that. Is yours the White one on DD. I'm trying my best not to buy the DS5 as I have always moaned about Diesels but Everytime I see the Interior I just want it more plus the added fact of 200bhp also helps for few times year I will be able to appreciate it.[/font]
[font=Open Sans, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Think Its time to just get the funds ready and get my arse in both cars to see which puts the bigger smile on my face.[/font]

Patser

Yep, mines the white one. Often have it in Dublin city while working if you want to sit in it. That was the decider for me too

mordeith

Jumping on this thread as well. I've been looking at the ct200 but reviews I've seen say the suspension is rock hard? Anyone any personal experience?

zilog_jones

If you're looking for more power, wouldn't the Lexus IS300h be a fairer comparison? It's a bit bigger than the DS5, though saying that the CT is quite a lot smaller.

Bigus

mordeith wrote: »

Jumping on this thread as well. I've been looking at the ct200 but reviews I've seen say the suspension is rock hard? Anyone any personal experience?

No it's fine on irish roads. I've driven a few ct 200 s on different size wheels and would not call the ride harsh at all, maybe the silence otherwise is confusing, users.

There's a lot of sh1talk about stuff from people don't understand or have haven't experienced hybrids for themselves .

mordeith

Bigus wrote: »

No it's fine on irish roads. I've driven a few ct 200 s on different size wheels and would not call the ride harsh at all, maybe the silence otherwise is confusing, users.

There's a lot of sh1talk about stuff from people don't understand or have haven't experienced hybrids for themselves .

Thanks for that. We already have a Leaf so the silence would be nothing new. I'd be coming from a 08 a4 which I can drive for hours without getting tired. I'd just be wary of something smaller being a bit more wearing during long drives. Maybe I'm over thinking it!

Kalel

zilog_jones wrote: »

If you're looking for more power, wouldn't the Lexus IS300h be a fairer comparison? It's a bit bigger than the DS5, though saying that the CT is quite a lot smaller.

Yes it would and would be my first choice if they were 5-6k cheaper but alas they are out of my price range at the moment.

waynegalway

Perhaps not much help, but here’s my tuppence!

I don’t know much about either car, but I’d be reluctant to get any sort of diesel car right now. There seems to be the beginnings of a backlash against diesels, and resale value down the line could be really bad (unless you plan to run it into the ground). Plus, there seems to be more things to go wrong in diesels (various bits and bobs aimed at lowering emissions, mainly).

About a year ago, I had personal experience of a garage that gets you to sign a waiver if you’re buying a diesel car, to say that you understand the implications of how a diesel particulate filter works. Essentially, a diesel car is not really suitable unless you’re doing a long run in it at least once a week. If you’re only doing short runs, in city driving, then a diesel may not suit you. You may already know about this, but just thought I’d share.

If I had to chose between those two, I’d go for the Lexus on the basis that it’s mostly a petrol car, and the reputation of the brand.

A couple of other comments: don’t discount the smaller engined petrol cars out there. The ICE car in my family is a 1 litre Octavia, and it moves way better than the engine size would have you think. Plus, it does 50mpg. Last comment: based on your daily trip, you really should have a look at a pure EV before making a decision. Very relaxing, comfortable and surprisingly fast to drive.

NIMAN

As I was posting about loving the look of the DS5, I popped on to Cars Ireland to check out those for sale.

Sweet Jebus, why are they so expensive? 45K for a new one. Any wonder there's so few on the roads. Surely anyone with that sort of money to spend on a car wouldn't be looking at a Citroën?

@waynegalway, think you're right, doubt will begin to creep into buyers minds about diesel purchases. It already has in mine. I plan to change the main car soon, a 1.6 diesel golf and I am worried about buying another diesel. I am 50/50 as to whether to get petrol this time round.

I do think over the next year or two, we'll see government hit diesel with increasing taxes, both in motor tax and duty in fuel.

zilog_jones

NIMAN wrote: »

Sweet Jebus, why are they so expensive? 45K for a new one. Any wonder there's so few on the roads. Surely anyone with that sort of money to spend on a car wouldn't be looking at a Citroën?

It's a DS, not a Citroen. It's their premium marque.

NIMAN

zilog_jones wrote: »

It's a DS, not a Citroen. It's their premium marque.

Does it not have a Citroën badge on it?

Patser

NIMAN wrote: »

Does it not have a Citroën badge on it?

It was a Citroën DS with a Citroën badge until 2015 when DS was spun off as its own stand alone brand, premium badge similar to Audi for VW. Ds5 was facelifted and all Citroën badges gone.

goz83

zilog_jones wrote: »

It's a DS, not a Citroen. It's their premium marque.

It’s a citroen. They can put whatever badge they want on it.

Patser

goz83 wrote: »

It’s a citroen. They can put whatever badge they want on it.

It's mostly Peugeot underneath

grogi

Patser wrote: »

It's mostly Peugeot underneath

And ct200h shares a lot with Toyota Auris underneath... ;]

zilog_jones

goz83 wrote: »

It’s a citroen. They can put whatever badge they want on it.

Do you feel the same about Lexus, Audi or Alfa Romeo? They're not doing anything new here

Also: The Citroen C6 was good enough for the President of France (now has a DS7)

NIMAN

zilog_jones wrote: »

Do you feel the same about Lexus, Audi or Alfa Romeo? They're not doing anything new here

Also: The Citroen C6 was good enough for the President of France (now has a DS7)

But in all the car search engines, they are listed under Citroen.;)

Lexus, Audi and Alfa are listed as individual car manufacturers. Not as Toyota, VW and Fiat.

Shefwedfan

Based on your mileage I would go Lexus, they have the premium feel on them compared to Toyota. I know all the parts are Toyota but they are way better on the interior, also cheap to service as it is a Toyota.

Citroen I have no idea about but you don’t need diesel. Have you sat into either yet? How is the Citroen inside?

Really a full electric would be best option but in your price range you are probably looking at Leaf or Zoe. Not really a comparison to a Lexus

Patser

NIMAN wrote: »

But in all the car search engines, they are listed under Citroen.;)

Lexus, Audi and Alfa are listed as individual car manufacturers. Not as Toyota, VW and Fiat.

Carzone, Cars Ireland, Auto trader UK all have DS as a brand selection???

They were just the first 3, and probably best known, I checked.

grogi

Patser wrote: »

Carzone, Cars Ireland, Auto trader UK all have DS as a brand selection???

They were just the first 3, and probably best known, I checked.

And where do they list Ruf cars?

Kalel

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Based on your mileage I would go Lexus, they have the premium feel on them compared to Toyota. I know all the parts are Toyota but they are way better on the interior, also cheap to service as it is a Toyota.

Citroen I have no idea about but you don’t need diesel. Have you sat into either yet? How is the Citroen inside?

Really a full electric would be best option but in your price range you are probably looking at Leaf or Zoe. Not really a comparison to a Lexus

I agree and was totally sold on the Lexus (Love the reliability of my Current IS250) and was all set to go and find a nicely spec'd one (Pop up screen etc) even though was slightly bummed by the low HP (137) coming from a 208HP IS250 but was willing to live with it, and then came across the DS5 Hybrid which has a fantastic Interior and also offered 200HP hence the Post. Finances will be in place this week and I think I might have found someone to buy my IS privately so hopefully will be shopping by the weekend. Will take both for a decent spin and see from there.

Patser

grogi wrote: »

And where do they list Ruf cars?

Ruf?

pah

Kalel wrote: »

I agree and was totally sold on the Lexus (Love the reliability of my Current IS250) and was all set to go and find a nicely spec'd one (Pop up screen etc) even though was slightly bummed by the low HP (137) coming from a 208HP IS250 but was willing to live with it, and then came across the DS5 Hybrid which has a fantastic Interior and also offered 200HP hence the Post. Finances will be in place this week and I think I might have found someone to buy my IS privately so hopefully will be shopping by the weekend. Will take both for a decent spin and see from there.

How did this work out for you OP?

wolf9

Just wondering If I was to buy a second hand ct200h hybrid would it be essential to bring to lexus dealership to service or could u bring to a Toyota dealer or any dealer, as the closest lexus dealership is 2.5 hours away, I'm in Kerry

Bigus

wolf9 wrote: »

Just wondering If I was to buy a second hand ct200h hybrid would it be essential to bring to lexus dealership to service or could u bring to a Toyota dealer or any dealer, as the closest lexus dealership is 2.5 hours away, I'm in Kerry

Any mechanic will be able,to do the work on it, which will really only be oil and filters .......and brakes last multiple times longer than standard cars, so be wary of over selling of pads and discs.

zilog_jones

wolf9 wrote: »

Just wondering If I was to buy a second hand ct200h hybrid would it be essential to bring to lexus dealership to service or could u bring to a Toyota dealer or any dealer, as the closest lexus dealership is 2.5 hours away, I'm in Kerry

You can extend the hybrid system warranty up to 10 years if you get the Hybrid Health Check done every year (€50). I can't imagine it would be a problem going to a Toyota dealer for this, but you'd be best off asking them yourself.

Beyond that, it's all pretty standard servicing. I just did the oil and filters in my Prius a few weeks ago for the first time (serviced in dealer until the 5 year warranty was up), and it was pretty standard stuff. Some independent mechanics may be reluctant to touch a hybrid though.

The only real non-standard service items are the inverter coolant (160k km/10 years or something like that - there is a separate cooling system for the engine), and cleaning out the battery fans every now and then. Toyota say the transmission fluid doesn't need changing, but some people do this anyway.

Kalel

Only getting around to buying one next week.. Have decided to go for a 2014 ct200h which I will hopefully have in my possession come Friday.. I got side tracked by an is300h that came down in price quite a bit but turned out there was reasons why it was cheaper than similar spec'd models. The interior was in crap order, was like it was used to house farm animals..

pah wrote: »

How did this work out for you OP?

Oafley Jones

zilog_jones wrote: »

You can extend the hybrid system warranty up to 10 years if you get the Hybrid Health Check done every year (€50). I can't imagine it would be a problem going to a Toyota dealer for this, but you'd be best off asking them yourself.

Beyond that, it's all pretty standard servicing. I just did the oil and filters in my Prius a few weeks ago for the first time (serviced in dealer until the 5 year warranty was up), and it was pretty standard stuff. Some independent mechanics may be reluctant to touch a hybrid though.

The only real non-standard service items are the inverter coolant (160k km/10 years or something like that - there is a separate cooling system for the engine), and cleaning out the battery fans every now and then. Toyota say the transmission fluid doesn't need changing, but some people do this anyway.

When I had my IS250 only Lexus qualified mechanics (in Toyota/Lexus) garages were allowed work on Lexus. I'd imagine that's still the case. That's not to say that a Toyota only dealer wouldn't have a Lexus trained mechanic.

Bigus

Oafley Jones wrote: »

When I had my IS250 only Lexus qualified mechanics (in Toyota/Lexus) garages were allowed work on Lexus. I'd imagine that's still the case. That's not to say that a Toyota only dealer wouldn't have a Lexus trained mechanic.

That was marketing bull, nothing to do with technicalities.

Oafley Jones

Bigus wrote: »

That was marketing bull, nothing to do with technicalities.

Maybe it is part of the marketing and I can't imagine what difference there is between a CT and a Hybrid auris, but it was/is? a requirement. For my last service I was collected by a young Toyota mechanic. I asked him how my car was. He said "fine" although he wasn't allowed go near it as he wasn't one of the lads who had qualified on Lexus.

obi604

Kalel wrote: »

Only getting around to buying one next week.. Have decided to go for a 2014 ct200h which I will hopefully have in my possession come Friday.. I got side tracked by an is300h that came down in price quite a bit but turned out there was reasons why it was cheaper than similar spec'd models. The interior was in crap order, was like it was used to house farm animals..

Well, did you buy the CT200h?

If so, How is it ?