Planning required to developed attic?

eamon11

hello, thinking of buying a house with extension at back. Checked planning and no planning permission got as extension just under 40m2 ground floor area. However, he put a large A roof on extension to tie in with original house. He developed the attic space of this extension but did not use it. Can I now legally use it or must I apply for permission for this?

Thanks in advance.

sydthebeat

You must apply for permission

average_runner

eamon11 wrote: »

hello, thinking of buying a house with extension at back. Checked planning and no planning permission got as extension just under 40m2 ground floor area. However, he put a large A roof on extension to tie in with original house. He developed the attic space of this extension but did not use it. Can I now legally use it or must I apply for permission for this?

Thanks in advance.

Depends on what you want to use it for?
We developed ours into a play room but only reason we had to get planning permission for it was because we had to change the roof design.

If your going for bedroom you should look at fire doors etc. We have them for the play room

BryanF

average_runner wrote: »

Depends on what you want to use it for?
We developed ours into a play room but only reason we had to get planning permission for it was because we had to change the roof design.

If your going for bedroom you should look at fire doors etc. We have them for the play room

OP do not take this advice. Not only is planning required but as this is a first floor extension building regs apply - pay particular attention to Part B (fire)

Calahonda52

Might even be a three storey!
http://www.housing.gov.ie/sites/default/files/migrated-files/en/Publications/DevelopmentandHousing/BuildingStandards/FileDownLoad,1657,en.pdf

maryk123

We had our attic converted this year and were told if we put windows in the front we needed planning so put them in the back. Job done.

average_runner

maryk123 wrote: »

We had our attic converted this year and were told if we put windows in the front we needed planning so put them in the back. Job done.

You wouldn't of got permission for the front so saved yourself some money

BryanF

average_runner wrote: »

You wouldn't of got permission for the front so saved yourself some money

Says who?

I’ve done it

Gumbo

average_runner wrote: »

You wouldn't of got permission for the front so saved yourself some money

I’ve gotten permission for them at the front a few times. My neighbor also done it.

gooner99

So is it okay to convert the attic space in the original house to create more living space without planning, but it is not allowed to do so in the 40sqm planning exempt extension?

sydthebeat

gooner99 wrote: »

So is it okay to convert the attic space in the original house to create more living space without planning, but it is not allowed to do so in the 40sqm planning exempt extension?

That would be an ecumenical matter

Quazzie

gooner99 wrote: »

So is it okay to convert the attic space in the original house to create more living space without planning, but it is not allowed to do so in the 40sqm planning exempt extension?

Well technically you're building a two story extension, which means the <40sqM downstairs when combined with the floor area upstairs would bring it over the planning exemption rules. Basically by using the attic it needs to be smaller overall and it also needs to take many other regulations into account as mentioned above.

gooner99

Quazzie wrote: »

Well technically you're building a two story extension, which means the <40sqM downstairs when combined with the floor area upstairs would bring it over the planning exemption rules. Basically by using the attic it needs to be smaller overall and it also needs to take many other regulations into account as mentioned above.

But if you were to build a planning excempt 40sqm single story extension, is it possible to convert the attic space of said extension at a later date without planning, as would be the case with the original house?

Gumbo

gooner99 wrote: »

But if you were to build a planning excempt 40sqm single story extension, is it possible to convert the attic space of said extension at a later date without planning, as would be the case with the original house?

The roof space of an exempted single storey extension would not facilitate an attic conversion.

The roof space of a single storey extension will be nothing more than a storage shelf of sorts.

gooner99

kceire wrote: »

The roof space of an exempted single storey extension would not facilitate an attic conversion.

The roof space of a single storey extension will be nothing more than a storage shelf of sorts.

Wouldn't this depend on the width of the extension and roof pitch. If a conversion was possible in the existing house, wouldn't it be possible that it could be in the extension also?

sydthebeat

gooner99 wrote: »

Wouldn't this depend on the width of the extension and roof pitch. If a conversion was possible in the existing house, wouldn't it be possible that it could be in the extension also?

read the regulations, it refers to floor area being increased

so if the house floor area has already increased by 40 sq m, then any other floor area increase will require planning permission.

its also a very contentious issue whether or not an attic conversion to habitable requires planning permission.

in my opinion it does require planning permission as its is not covered under any of the exempted development class, and its only arguable under section 4 1 h.
However in my opinion section 4.1.h doesnt specifically allow for a floor area increase.

Lumen

gooner99 wrote: »

Wouldn't this depend on the width of the extension and roof pitch. If a conversion was possible in the existing house, wouldn't it be possible that it could be in the extension also?

I think that in theory an extension (regardless of stories) can have walls built up to the eaves level of the attached house, which might be 5m or so high. And then there can be a pitched roof on top as long as it's under the ridge line of the house.

As soon as you add another floor you're going to hit the 20sqm-above-ground-level restriction (for detached property, for terraced or semi it's 12sqm).

But presumably 20sqm FF over 40sqm GF is possible in theory with sufficient height as long as you meet all the regs for the FF.

gooner99

Thanks. It seems as if there is a bit of a grey area with regards attic conversion without planning whether it be to the exiting house attic or any extension attic. Having said that I'd imagine most attic conversions in the country have been done with the assumption that it is not required.

Gumbo

Lumen wrote: »

But presumably 20sqm FF over 40sqm GF is possible in theory with sufficient height as long as you meet all the regs for the FF.

I don’t think that’s correct.
The 20 has to be subtracted from the 40.

gooner99 wrote: »

Thanks. It seems as if there is a bit of a grey area with regards attic conversion without planning whether it be to the exiting house attic or any extension attic. Having said that I'd imagine most attic conversions in the country have been done with the assumption that it is not required.

No your still mixing up attics and first floor roof spaces. Different spaces.

Lumen

kceire wrote: »

I don’t think that’s correct.
The 20 has to be subtracted from the 40.

Yeah, OK. The guidance I read on a CC website was unclear but the legislation is better.

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/2001/si/600/made/en/print#part2

S.I. No. 600/2001 - Planning and Development Regulations, 2001 wrote:

Part 1

Exempted Development — General

CLASS 1

Description of Development

Development within the curtilage of a house

Conditions and Limitations

The extension of a house, by the construction or erection of an extension (including a conservatory) to the rear of the house or by the conversion for use as part of the house of any garage, store, shed or other similar structure attached to the rear or to the side of the house.

1. (a) Where the house has not been extended previously, the floor area of any such extension shall not exceed 40 square metres.

(b) Subject to paragraph (a), where the house is terraced or semi-detached, the floor area of any extension above ground level shall not exceed 12 square metres.

(c) Subject to paragraph (a), where the house is detached, the floor area of any extension above ground level shall not exceed 20 square metres.

2. (a) Where the house has been extended previously, the floor area of any such extension, taken together with the floor area of any previous extension or extensions constructed or erected after 1 October 1964, including those for which planning permission has been obtained, shall not exceed 40 square metres.

(b) Subject to paragraph (a), where the house is terraced or semi-detached and has been extended previously, the floor area of any extension above ground level taken together with the floor area of any previous extension or extensions above ground level constructed or erected after 1 October 1964, including those for which planning permission has been obtained, shall not exceed 12 square metres.

(c) Subject to paragraph (a), where the house is detached and has been extended previously, the floor area of any extension above ground level, taken together with the floor area of any previous extension or extensions above ground level constructed or erected after 1 October 1964, including those for which planning permission has been obtained, shall not exceed 20 square metres.

3. Any above ground floor extension shall be a distance of not less than 2 metres from any party boundary.

4. (a) Where the rear wall of the house does not include a gable, the height of the walls of any such extension shall not exceed the height of the rear wall of the house.

(b) Where the rear wall of the house includes a gable, the height of the walls of any such extension shall not exceed the height of the side walls of the house.

(c) The height of the highest part of the roof of any such extension shall not exceed, in the case of a flat roofed extension, the height of the eaves or parapet, as may be appropriate, or, in any other case, shall not exceed the height of the highest part of the roof of the dwelling.

5. The construction or erection of any such extension to the rear of the house shall not reduce the area of private open space, reserved exclusively for the use of the occupants of the house, to the rear of the house to less than 25 square metres.

6. (a) Any window proposed at ground level in any such extension shall not be less than 1 metre from the boundary it faces.

(b) Any window proposed above ground level in any such extension shall not be less than 11 metres from the boundary it faces.

(c) Where the house is detached and the floor area of the extension above ground level exceeds 12 square metres, any window proposed at above ground level shall not be less than 11 metres from the boundary it faces.

7. The roof of any extension shall not be used as a balcony or roof garden.