Batman

BuilderPlumber

Was watching the early Batman films 2 weeks ago and Batman and Batman Returns are very enjoyable and are the perfect way to spend a couple of hours. Batman Forever is less enjoyable and Batman and Robin while not as bad as it is often described is definitely the worst Batman film so far.

But which is the best? Batman (1989), Batman Returns or the Christopher Nolan Dark Knight trilogy. I think it is a toss between these. The two Tim Burton films have the feel of the early Bond films while Nolan's films have the feel of the Daniel Craig Bond films. I feel the original 2 Batman films combined the serious and fun elements very well whereas Nolan's films were of a much more serious tone whereas Joel Schumacker went too much for the tone of the old 1960s Adam West Batman.

micks_address

BuilderPlumber wrote: »

Was watching the early Batman films 2 weeks ago and Batman and Batman Returns are very enjoyable and are the perfect way to spend a couple of hours. Batman Forever is less enjoyable and Batman and Robin while not as bad as it is often described is definitely the worst Batman film so far.

But which is the best? Batman (1989), Batman Returns or the Christopher Nolan Dark Knight trilogy. I think it is a toss between these. The two Tim Burton films have the feel of the early Bond films while Nolan's films have the feel of the Daniel Craig Bond films. I feel the original 2 Batman films combined the serious and fun elements very well whereas Nolan's films were of a much more serious tone whereas Joel Schumacker went too much for the tone of the old 1960s Adam West Batman.

The dark Knight is easily my favourite. Batman begins is solid and rises slightly disappointing for me.

blue note

The dark knight is my favourite film, but it never feels like a comic book film to me. It just feels like an action film with batman as the hero.

So if I'm in the mood for a comic book film I'll go for batman returns first. Then batman. If I'm in the mood for action it would be the dark knight.

The rest of them I could take or leave really. The other two Nolans are decent. Batman forever is grand. And batman and robin is as bad as they say. It's one of the worst films I've seen.

BuilderPlumber

blue note wrote: »

The dark knight is my favourite film, but it never feels like a comic book film to me. It just feels like an action film with batman as the hero.

So if I'm in the mood for a comic book film I'll go for batman returns first. Then batman. If I'm in the mood for action it would be the dark knight.

The rest of them I could take or leave really. The other two Nolans are decent. Batman forever is grand. And batman and robin is as bad as they say. It's one of the worst films I've seen.

I agree. The Dark Knight is excellent and yes it is more an action film than a comic book film. Heath Ledger did a great Joker and redefined the role associated so much with Jack Nicholson before who also did a great job in this role.

Batman Returns is a great film and Danny DeVito's Penguin is a great character. Not sure if I would feel sorry for him or not but Christopher Walken's Max Schreck is the main villain here I feel and was the force behind both Penguin and Catwoman.

Batman launched a great series of films and as with the Penguin and Catwoman in Returns, the Joker is likewise given an interesting backstory. Batman Forever is a good homage to the 1960s series and good fun but is not as good as its two predecessors. The other 2 Nolan films are decent for sure and we understand Batman and what motivates him from these.

The main problem with Batman and Robin is it was pretty poor but also had so much more potential. Mr Freeze could have been a great villain and if this was Batman Returns, he'd have been one. It attempted too much to be like the 1960s series and by the end of the film, you knew this interpretation of Batman was as far removed as possible from the Batman of the 1989 and 1992 films as well as the Nolan films.

Of course, there have been the more recent Batman films where he is combined with Superman and Wonderwoman. I feel that mixing the worlds of superheroes is not wise and dilutes the characters. Superman should never confront the Joker or the Penguin and Batman should leave Lex Luthor to Superman. Having Martha as their mothers' names should be the only connection!

IncognitoMan

The best film is The Dark Knight but Batman 89 and Returns feel more like comic-book batman whereas the Nolan films are great as more realistic/grittier takes.

Also Forever is every bit as bad as Batman & Robin. Unbelievably bad films. Although Forever does probably have the best soundtrack of any of them.

EPAndlee

The Dark Knight is my favourite. Was actually wondering the last time I watched a batman film, if they'd attempt another film with the likes of Riddler,Penguin,Ivy,Mr Freeze etc. One of the main reason reasons I enjoy Gotham so much is the amount of characters from the comics that appear on the show

BuilderPlumber

IncognitoMan wrote: »

The best film is The Dark Knight but Batman 89 and Returns feel more like comic-book batman whereas the Nolan films are great as more realistic/grittier takes.

Also Forever is every bit as bad as Batman & Robin. Unbelievably bad films. Although Forever does probably have the best soundtrack of any of them.

The Dark Knight, the other Nolan films, Batman and Returns are all great and enjoyable. Nolan puts a more realistic take while the two Burton films do the comic book style well but keeps the feel dark and gritty too.

Forever is ok but not near as good as its predecessors. The Riddler was too comedic and while Jim Carrey gave a good performance, one could not help feel we were getting a sort of a poor man's Joker. He was not near as menacing as The Joker or The Penguin but he was preferable to what they did with Mr Freeze and Bane in the next film. Two Face was decent but the Nolan treatment was much better.

Two Face is how Forever could be described. One part seemed to look back to the older 2 and one to the next. Robin was a pure reincarnation of the one from the 1960s. I think that Tim Burton being producer helped keep something good in it while his total absence in B&R meant that film went totally for the tame and safe.

B&R is often called one of the worst films of all time. It certainly is the worst Batman film and while I can name 100s of worse films, it still is a big letdown even for fans of Forever let alone the Burton and Nolan classics. Thankfully, Nolan did Bane properly.

Batman v Superman is a weird film. I am not really a fan of mixing superheroes and found it strange seeing Batman v Lex Luthor. Still, it is way better than B&R anyway.

BuilderPlumber

EPAndlee wrote: »

The Dark Knight is my favourite. Was actually wondering the last time I watched a batman film, if they'd attempt another film with the likes of Riddler,Penguin,Ivy,Mr Freeze etc. One of the main reason reasons I enjoy Gotham so much is the amount of characters from the comics that appear on the show

I feel that Mr Freeze, Ivy and the Riddler deserve a better, darker treatment. Penguin was done great, as were The Joker, Bane, Two Face and others. Max Schreck was a great original villain as was Carl Grishom. Catwoman was done great but is she a Batman ally or enemy? Both and uncertain which it would seem both in Returns and in the old series and comics.

Looking at the old TV series' villains, would they be worth reviving? Or are they just minor villains. Some of the less remembered Batman villains include King Tut (a historian who transforms into a villainous Pharaoh), Shame (A cowboy: Shane), Egghead, The Mad Hatter (a sort of a Joker/Riddler clone), and the Penguin's girlfriend Martha Queen of Diamonds. There were one or two more but they were all in relatively few episodes. The Joker, The Penguin, The Riddler, Catwoman and Mr Freeze tended to be the main ones.

IncognitoMan

Yeah I'd love Matt Reeves's upcoming films to use some of the other villains. Deathstroke seems to be a big possibility.

I can't get on board with forever even being considered ok though. I re-watched it maybe about a year ago and couldn't believe how bad it is now to me as an adult. I remembered it being ok from when I was younger but by Christ was I wrong. There's glimpses of stuff that might have been interesting but they are few and very far between.

From that opening where we get Alfred asking Batman if he wants a sandwich as he's getting into the Batmobile and he replies "I'll get drive through" you know you are in for a **** show.

Like, scenes like these are in a real film... not a parody

The music in it is phenomenal though.

Chris_Heilong

For me the Nolan films never really felt like batman, it was more like good action films following Bruce Wayne with a pinch of batman thrown in, the Burton films were more like batman films however they were far too dorkey. I still think the Barman in Batman vs Superman was the best and I would love to see him in a solo film so for me the best batman film has not yet been made.

BuilderPlumber

IncognitoMan wrote: »

Yeah I'd love Matt Reeves's upcoming films to use some of the other villains. Deathstroke seems to be a big possibility.

I can't get on board with forever even being considered ok though. I re-watched it maybe about a year ago and couldn't believe how bad it is now to me as an adult. I remembered it being ok from when I was younger but by Christ was I wrong. There's glimpses of stuff that might have been interesting but they are few and very far between.

From that opening where we get Alfred asking Batman if he wants a sandwich as he's getting into the Batmobile and he replies "I'll get drive through" you know you are in for a **** show.

Like, scenes like these are in a real film... not a parody

The music in it is phenomenal though.

Batman Forever to me is always there in the middle. The great Batman and Batman Returns and the awful Batman and Robin are polar opposites and Forever is the bridge between them. There is good action but a lot of over the top theatrics especially around The Riddler.

Batman and Robin is definitely the worst DVD I own. It came as part of a set with the other 3 so 2 great films and 1 ok one was worth the price. While I feel Forever is ok and has its good points, B&R is probably the worst film from a great franchise (Bond film Die Another Day is a masterpiece in comparison). B&R is not the worst film of all time (100s of karate films like Karate Kid 3, plus The Delta Force, the Police Academy sequels, Jaws the Revenge and all them low budget Vietnam films with a biased view would be that AND vying for no one position!) but may well be the film that had most promise and was the worst letdown from what could have been to what we got (its 1997 companion The Postman would be in a similar ranking).

IncognitoMan

Hey, I ain't defending Batman & Robin here Just I think the gap between the two films is pretty small. Like a 3/10 film and 2/10 film.

Yeah I seen that Batman anthology blu ray in the shops but I couldn't bring myself to pay for the latter 2 films.

BuilderPlumber

BuilderPlumber wrote: »

Thankfully, Nolan did Bane properly.

No, sorry but Nolan's Bame was just a mumbling henchman. Where were the brains behind the brawn. Bane is far more interesting and indepth than anything in Nolan's vision

conorhal

IncognitoMan wrote: »

Hey, I ain't defending Batman & Robin here Just I think the gap between the two films is pretty small. Like a 3/10 film and 2/10 film.

Yeah I seen that Batman anthology blu ray in the shops but I couldn't bring myself to pay for the latter 2 films.

It's a terrible film, but a great movie to incorporate a drinking game! A far more entertaining drunk watch then 'The Room' IMO.

Lorelli!

Batman was one of the first films I saw in the cinema so always loved it and Batman returns. I loved Michelle Pfeifers Catwoman. The Dark Knight was great and I can't deny Heath Ledger was great in it but I dont know why I could never take to him as an actor. Probably something to do with that film 10 Things I Hate About You.

So funny when they slag off the Prince Batman soundtrack in Shaun of Dead..

BuilderPlumber

Lorelli! wrote: »

Batman was one of the first films I saw in the cinema so always loved it and Batman returns. I loved Michelle Pfeifers Catwoman. The Dark Knight was great and I can't deny Heath Ledger was great in it but I dont know why I could never take to him as an actor. Probably something to do with that film 10 Things I Hate About You.

So funny when they slag off the Prince Batman soundtrack in Shaun of Dead..

Batman was a phenomenon in the cinema back in 1989. I remember going to it and the queues were massive unlike anything else. Definitely the film of that summer and year. I remember the excitement and it was called Batmania. Fans of Batman, James Bond and action films all loved it and I remember going to see it twice. Books, games, T-Shirts, toys and the Prince soundtrack album all came out and a sequel was inevitable.

It caught the imagination of the world and changed the concept of Batman away from Adam West's portrayal and back to the comics with a nod to James Bond too. The batmobile of course was more like the Goldfinger car than the Adam West one. Batman Returns was just as good and was also a massive success. Batman on the big screen was established and despite the poor Batman & Robin and a gap of 8 years, would remain so.

BuilderPlumber

IncognitoMan wrote: »

Hey, I ain't defending Batman & Robin here Just I think the gap between the two films is pretty small. Like a 3/10 film and 2/10 film.

Yeah I seen that Batman anthology blu ray in the shops but I couldn't bring myself to pay for the latter 2 films.

Batman Forever tends to divide people. I rather like it but it is a big letdown compared to the earlier 2. I think this TV box plot was stupid and the Riddler was over the top. The action was good and Two Face was done well. Robin's backstory was too. There was enough early on to remind one of the earlier two but towards the end, the excesses of B&R were hinted at.

If they just had Two Face in it and no Riddler, I feel Forever would have been much better. The Riddler was clearly done as a copy of Jack Nicholson's Joker. They could have done the same with The Penguin and didn't which made Returns a great and different film. The Riddler was too over the top and actually took away from Two Face's menace.

Lorelli!

BuilderPlumber wrote: »

Batman was a phenomenon in the cinema back in 1989. I remember going to it and the queues were massive unlike anything else. Definitely the film of that summer and year. I remember the excitement and it was called Batmania. Fans of Batman, James Bond and action films all loved it and I remember going to see it twice. Books, games, T-Shirts, toys and the Prince soundtrack album all came out and a sequel was inevitable.

It caught the imagination of the world and changed the concept of Batman away from Adam West's portrayal and back to the comics with a nod to James Bond too. The batmobile of course was more like the Goldfinger car than the Adam West one. Batman Returns was just as good and was also a massive success. Batman on the big screen was established and despite the poor Batman & Robin and a gap of 8 years, would remain so.

I was only 6 so I can't remember all the hype surrounding it but I do have a small memory of sitting in the cinema. My mother took me, my friend and my brother and his friend.

My friend and I wanted to be Vicki Vale

ondafly

Anyone else remember the shop in Stephens green shopping center in 1989/90 ? It sold all the batman match etc. Great movies - the first two.

ondafly

ondafly wrote: »

Anyone else remember the shop in Stephens green shopping center in 1989/90 ? It sold all the batman match etc. Great movies - the first two.

Had to google to check !

http://www.rte.ie/archives/2014/1006/650329-batmania-comes-to-dublin/

dublinman1990

ondafly wrote: »

Had to google to check !

http://www.rte.ie/archives/2014/1006/650329-batmania-comes-to-dublin/

Thanks so much for sharing that link. I enjoyed that video about the Batmania shop.

dublinman1990

dublinman1990 wrote: »

Thanks so much for sharing that link. I enjoyed that video about the Batmania shop.

Ha that Joker kid sounded like Hamil, years before the animated series

BuilderPlumber

ondafly wrote: »

Anyone else remember the shop in Stephens green shopping center in 1989/90 ? It sold all the batman match etc. Great movies - the first two.

I remember reading about that shop and watching the programme about it. Batmania was everywhere that summer and autumn.

HandsomeBob

[Deleted User] wrote: »

No, sorry but Nolan's Bame was just a mumbling henchman. Where were the brains behind the brawn. Bane is far more interesting and indepth than anything in Nolan's vision

He was fine until he became the afterthought. Bane did show a level of brain and method behind his actions only to be revealed as a lackey to the true brains.

I still remember when the first promo image of Hardy as Bane was released and the shot at the end of the teaser with an exhausted Batman backing up from the relentless Bane. Both had me so excited to think Nolan had gotten it spot on.

Anyway, both Burton's and Nolan's work hold a special place for me, couldn't honestly separate them.

BuilderPlumber

HandsomeBob wrote: »

He was fine until he became the afterthought. Bane did show a level of brain and method behind his actions only to be revealed as a lackey to the true brains.

I still remember when the first promo image of Hardy as Bane was released and the shot at the end of the teaser with an exhausted Batman backing up from the relentless Bane. Both had me so excited to think Nolan had gotten it spot on.

Anyway, both Burton's and Nolan's work hold a special place for me, couldn't honestly separate them.

Burton's and Nolan's Batman were perfect for their time and were very inventive. I rate the films, the villains and the best Batman/Bruce Wayne as follows:

Best film: a tossup between the 2 Burton and 3 Nolan ones.
Worst film: Batman and Robin.
Best villain: The Joker or the Penguin.
Worst villain: The Riddler.
Best Batman/Bruce: Michael Keaton.
Worst Batman/Bruce: George Clooney not because he was poor in the role (he wasn't) but had the poorest material to work with.
Weirdest film: Batman v Superman.
Best Bruce/Batman love interest: Vicki Vale.
Best complicated character: Catwoman/Selina Kyle or Harvey Dent/Two Face.

HandsomeBob

I know I'm on my own on this one but I always found Clooney more bearable than Kilmer in the role.

People talk about RDJ being born to play Tony Stark but Clooney was made for Bruce Wayne. Even amongst the horrendousness of B&R there's still a likeable turn from Clooney who genuinely exuded the belief that he was both mentor (Robin) and son (Alfred) to those around him, all the while living up to the facade of the care free billionaire playboy. Clooney deserved a better film than he got by a mile.

I never found anything in particular about Val's performance that said Bruce or Batman to me.

BuilderPlumber

HandsomeBob wrote: »

I know I'm on my own on this one but I always found Clooney more bearable than Kilmer in the role.

People talk about RDJ being born to play Tony Stark but Clooney was made for Bruce Wayne. Even amongst the horrendousness of B&R there's still a likeable turn from Clooney who genuinely exuded the belief that he was both mentor (Robin) and son (Alfred) to those around him, all the while living up to the facade of the care free billionaire playboy. Clooney deserved a better film than he got by a mile.

I never found anything in particular about Val's performance that said Bruce or Batman to me.

I agree George Clooney was good in the role and deserved a much better film. There are likeable aspects of B&R and GC's Bruce is very much part of it. The film is poor but is not as bad as many say. It is still Batman and while it is Batman at his poorest, it still has some good action and stories. I for one would rather watch B&R over truly awful stuff like The Karate Kid Part 3, 50 Shades of Grey, 50 Shades Darker and anything with Chuck Norris in it.