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Transfer stocks to spouse to save on CGT - which broker?

  • 27-12-2017 8:31pm
    #1
    Registered Users Posts: 158 ✭✭ vrusinov


    I have Morgan Stanley account which my employer opened for me. It holds a number of shares of said employer, which I want to sell. Selling them puts me on hook for hefty capital gains tax payment.

    Now, being married finally pays off as it seems like I can transfer some shares to my spouse tax-free so that we could use hers 1270 CGT credit as well.

    But which broker do we use for missus account?
    - Morgan Stanley is in US so a bit PITA to deal with.
    - Degiro looked very promising until we've learned they do not accept gift stock transfers.
    - Everyone else seems to be way too expensive with huge annual fees - we'd like to keep this account open in case we need to do similar thing again.


Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 435 ✭✭ Gordon Gekko


    vrusinov wrote: »
    I have Morgan Stanley account which my employer opened for me. It holds a number of shares of said employer, which I want to sell. Selling them puts me on hook for hefty capital gains tax payment.

    Now, being married finally pays off as it seems like I can transfer some shares to my spouse tax-free so that we could use hers 1270 CGT credit as well.

    But which broker do we use for missus account?
    - Morgan Stanley is in US so a bit PITA to deal with.
    - Degiro looked very promising until we've learned they do not accept gift stock transfers.
    - Everyone else seems to be way too expensive with huge annual fees - we'd like to keep this account open in case we need to do similar thing again.

    I've wondered about this before - could you simply transfer the beneficial ownership to your wife - by way of something as simple as a letter perhaps? - retaining legal ownership in your name? Revenue would presumably only care about the beneficial i.e. economic interest/entitlements in the shares, rather than legal ownership (which is just a name on the share register with no economic rights to the shares).


  • Registered Users Posts: 785 ✭✭✭ Zenify


    I'm not 100% sure on this but this is what I'm thinking. The 'tax free' husband to wife is in relation to capital acquisitions tax and doesnt refer to your capital gain. When you calculate a capital gain it uses the term "Disposal" of the asset. I assume by you transfering to your wife you are still "dispossing" the asset and still liable for CGT. As i said not fully sure.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,666 ✭✭✭ exaisle


    Zenify wrote: »
    I'm not 100% sure on this but this is what I'm thinking. The 'tax free' husband to wife is in relation to capital acquisitions tax and doesnt refer to your capital gain. When you calculate a capital gain it uses the term "Disposal" of the asset. I assume by you transfering to your wife you are still "dispossing" the asset and still liable for CGT. As i said not fully sure.

    See here:

    https://www.revenue.ie/en/life-events-and-personal-circumstances/marital-status/marriage-and-civil-partnerships/transferring-assets-between-spouses-or-civil-partners.aspx


  • Registered Users Posts: 158 ✭✭ vrusinov


    I've wondered about this before - could you simply transfer the beneficial ownership to your wife - by way of something as simple as a letter perhaps?

    Hmm, interesting idea. Since we only need to satisfy Revenue, I guess I'll try to ask them after the holiday season.


  • Registered Users Posts: 256 ✭✭ Crybabygeeks


    Apologies for bumping an old thread but in the exact same situation myself at the moment. Would like to gift shares to husband to use his 1270 allowance before year-end.

    What did you do in the end OP?


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 657 Shauny2010


    I would ring revenue first. I can't see how transferring the name on the shares would make any difference. You need to argue that the shares were always jointly owned otherwise it could be seen as tax evasion.
    Revenue here are usually very obliging when it comes to join/married couples Tax obligations, so you could get to leave the shares in your own name.


  • Registered Users Posts: 26 pol12


    Shauny2010 wrote: »
    I would ring revenue first. I can't see how transferring the name on the shares would make any difference. You need to argue that the shares were always jointly owned otherwise it could be seen as tax evasion.
    Revenue here are usually very obliging when it comes to join/married couples Tax obligations, so you could get to leave the shares in your own name.
    I did this with Davy stockbrokers. Transferred from a sole account to a joint account with a letter and proof of identity confirming we are married.


  • Registered Users Posts: 158 ✭✭ vrusinov


    I was a bit short on time and came to conclusion that it was not worth the effort.


  • Registered Users Posts: 256 ✭✭ Crybabygeeks


    pol12 wrote: »
    Shauny2010 wrote: »
    I would ring revenue first. I can't see how transferring the name on the shares would make any difference. You need to argue that the shares were always jointly owned otherwise it could be seen as tax evasion.
    Revenue here are usually very obliging when it comes to join/married couples Tax obligations, so you could get to leave the shares in your own name.
    I did this with Davy stockbrokers. Transferred from a sole account to a joint account with a letter and proof of identity confirming we are married.

    My shares are in Morgan Stanley so unsure as to how this would happen but could figure it out. I shudder at all things tax related 🀣


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