List of Luas Cross City issues (exclude timetable and disruption issues) (No chat)

Victor

I'm compiling a list of Luas Cross City issues for submission to Luas / TII across a number of headings, including:
* Safety
* Ticketing
* Signage and Information
* Passenger comfort
* Service - the actual running of the trams

Examples of passenger comfort would be:
* Seats at new stops are too low for most people to use.
* Shelter is quite inadequate at most stops.
* Remove bird perches at stops (lamp posts, ledges, etc.), and under bridges. Remove build-ups of bird droppings.

We're all aware of the timetable and disruption issues. These are dependent on tram numbers, so I'm not sure if there is much we can do about that, unless someone has a special insight.

Jamie2k9

My issues yesterday:
* Lack of TMV at SSG southbound and leap readers on the new part of the platforms.
* Traffic lights need reviewing upper O'Connell & Dominic Junctions

BowSideChamp

The SSG stop is like Hillsborough. Remove the barriers at the stop. Total crush fest getting off the tram.

I also predict a cyclist will die on the tracks within the next 12months. Very dangerous.

Jamie2k9

BowSideChamp wrote: »

The SSG stop is like Hillsborough. Remove the barriers at the stop. Total crush fest getting off the tram.

I also predict a cyclist will die on the tracks within the next 12months. Very dangerous.

Removing the barriers will not make a blind bit of difference, at peak times people will be trying to get on with or without a barrier there. You will still have to get through a sea of people!

Cookie_Monster

Victor wrote: »

* Remove bird perches at stops (lamp posts, ledges, etc.), and under bridges. .

why would you remove things like this when they provide useful services, lights etc?
just add in anti-pigeon spikes where required

bobbysands81

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

Removing the barriers will not make a blind bit of difference, at peak times people will be trying to get on with or without a barrier there. You will still have to get through a sea of people!

It’s the LEAP card points that are the problem. People spilling off LUAS are trying to get to the LEAP card points. In doing so they are blocking people trying to move away from the tram and the people behind them get backed up and can’t move freely causing a blockage. The passengers who are trying to get on the LUAS then make the situation a real mess. The barriers do make it worse as they condense large crowds into a very small space.

Jamie2k9

bobbysands81 wrote: »

It’s the LEAP card points that are the problem. People spilling off LUAS are trying to get to the LEAP card points. In doing so they are blocking people trying to move away from the tram and the people behind them get backed up and can’t move freely causing a blockage. The passengers who are trying to get on the LUAS then make the situation a real mess. The barriers do make it worse as they condense large crowds into a very small space.

I have said they should of placed them against the barriers, they have done this on the new stations. Hopefully they do it when they install more at SSG.

Stephen15

Victor wrote: »

I'm compiling a list of Luas Cross City issues for submission to Luas / TII across a number of headings, including:
* Safety
* Ticketing
* Signage and Information
* Passenger comfort
* Service - the actual running of the trams

Examples of passenger comfort would be:
* Seats at new stops are too low for most people to use.
* Shelter is quite inadequate at most stops.
* Remove bird perches at stops (lamp posts, ledges, etc.), and under bridges. Remove build-ups of bird droppings.

We're all aware of the timetable and disruption issues. These are dependent on tram numbers, so I'm not sure if there is much we can do about that, unless someone has a special insight.

Safety issues as in passenger, pedestrian or cyclist safety issues.

Baby01032012

I use the red line and since the cross city went live I'm stuck at the abbey st o Connell st interchange for a redicilous amount of time. It's not working there with the sequence between red green and traffic.

Victor

Cookie_Monster wrote: »

why would you remove things like this when they provide useful services, lights etc?
just add in anti-pigeon spikes where required

Remove the perches, not the lights. In this image, the pigeons are using the spikes to secure their nest. The solution is to blank off the entire ledge.

Stephen15 wrote: »

Safety issues as in passenger, pedestrian or cyclist safety issues.

Yes.

Dravokivich

I think congestion issues need to be reviewed overall, not just taking the Cross City changes in isolation.

I drive across Parnell St every evening and the light sequences aren't too bad. You progress at a steady rate. The issue with Dominick St junction is people rushing out of a car park further down beside Pennys. They break lights and clog up everywhere leading up to that junction, leading to other people doing the same in frustration.

BowSideChamp wrote: »

I also predict a cyclist will die on the tracks within the next 12months. Very dangerous.

They need to start being responsible for themselves. I'm also seeing more pedestrians not looking before they cross the road in the city these days and that's because they don't want to be responsible.

.G.

Sat on Dominic st yesterday for 15 minutes without moving. Everytime we got a green light Parnell st was already blocked with traffic already on it. In the end everyone just started to break the red light and treat the junction like a yield sign. That needs looking it, the green sequence is far too short.

Hugh Jampton

My list of Luas Cross City Issues:

Private Cars in the City Centre.

Jamie2k9

Baby01032012 wrote: »

I use the red line and since the cross city went live I'm stuck at the abbey st o Connell st interchange for a redicilous amount of time. It's not working there with the sequence between red green and traffic.

It's actually not any longer, I have timed it various times. There is always a minimum of 2 minutes wait and that could reach 3.5 if one tram is stopped there in advance and anther one is approaching but fails to get there on time to get clearance.

Overall the light need to give more priority but yet again DCC interfered.

MICKEYG

Update RTI with info on trains terminating at a stop. Annoying when you are collecting someone at a terminus like Sandyford and you can only see the times for trams continuing on to Brides glen.

Victor

Folks, this thread is about trying to fix things, not bitching and moaning.

Thank you to those that have contributed positively.

superg wrote: »

Sat on Dominic st yesterday for 15 minutes without moving. Everytime we got a green light Parnell st was already blocked with traffic already on it. In the end everyone just started to break the red light and treat the junction like a yield sign. That needs looking it, the green sequence is far too short.

Do you mean the bottom of Dominick Street was blocked?

bk

I think pedestrian crossing lights along the route need to be reviewed and sequences changed.

I've noticed at a number of junctions that the pedestrian crossing lights are red, even when the luas is crossing in parallel and when their is no reason why it couldn't be green for pedestrians and no reason why pedestrians couldn't continue to cross as the Luas also crosses.

It seems the pedestrian lights are timed to interact with only the traffic lights and not with the Luas lights. Makes no sense.

Jamie2k9

bk wrote: »

I think pedestrian crossing lights along the route need to be reviewed and sequences changed.

I've noticed at a number of junctions that the pedestrian crossing lights are red, even when the luas is crossing in parallel and when their is no reason why it couldn't be green for pedestrians and no reason why pedestrians couldn't continue to cross as the Luas also crosses.

It seems the pedestrian lights are timed to interact with only the traffic lights and not with the Luas lights. Makes no sense.

You won't be able to interact Luas system with traffic lights like you describe above.

devnull

Discussion related to general LUAS Cross City topics more suited to the other thread have been moved there and off topic posts have been removed, feel free to start a new topic if your post is not related to the topic at hand

- Moderator

Victor

bk wrote: »

I think pedestrian crossing lights along the route need to be reviewed and sequences changed.

I've noticed at a number of junctions that the pedestrian crossing lights are red, even when the luas is crossing in parallel and when their is no reason why it couldn't be green for pedestrians and no reason why pedestrians couldn't continue to cross as the Luas also crosses.

It seems the pedestrian lights are timed to interact with only the traffic lights and not with the Luas lights. Makes no sense.

I discussed this with RPA previously and they prefer it that way, as pedestrians were crossing the tramway when there was a green light on the non-Luas road.

bk

Victor wrote: »

I discussed this with RPA previously and they prefer it that way, as pedestrians were crossing the tramway when there was a green light on the non-Luas road.

That is pretty idiotic IMO. People will quickly realise it and start to ignore the lights and just cross, which teaches the wrong lesson.

I know it is what I now do at these junctions, just ignore these lights and cross, as do I see most people do.

A dangerous precedent to be setting and another example of the NTA's/DCC's poor consideration for pedestrians.

MrMorooka

The way 'Droichead Broome' is squeezed into two lines in the centre of LED displays on the front of the trams is completely illegible and looks horrible. They should just make it 'D. Broome' or something and use the full width.

Of course, I would be in favour of repealing the OLA entirely and removing Irish from public transport, but that's a separate issue

.G.

Victor wrote: »

Folks, this thread is about trying to fix things, not bitching and moaning.

Thank you to those that have contributed positively.

Do you mean the bottom of Dominick Street was blocked?

Yeah traffic on Dominic st couldn't get off it onto Parnell st. The green sequence is too long for Parnell St in relation to the very short green for Dominic st. Probably more of an issue due to extra Christmas private car traffic.

Zipppy

Jamie2k9 wrote:

You won't be able to interact Luas system with traffic lights like you describe above.

Why do you think this?

vrusinov

bk wrote: »

I've noticed at a number of junctions that the pedestrian crossing lights are red, even when the luas is crossing in parallel and when their is no reason why it couldn't be green for pedestrians and no reason why pedestrians couldn't continue to cross as the Luas also crosses.

This is also the case for many pedestrian traffic lights without luas all across the city.

Phil.x

Victor wrote: »

I'm compiling a list of Luas Cross City issues for submission to Luas / TII across a number of headings, including:
* Safety
* Ticketing
* Signage and Information
* Passenger comfort
* Service - the actual running of the trams

Examples of passenger comfort would be:
* Seats at new stops are too low for most people to use.
* Shelter is quite inadequate at most stops.
* Remove bird perches at stops (lamp posts, ledges, etc.), and under bridges. Remove build-ups of bird droppings.

We're all aware of the timetable and disruption issues. These are dependent on tram numbers, so I'm not sure if there is much we can do about that, unless someone has a special insight.

You really have nothing to complain about bar this, Service - the actual running of the trams.

Seriously some people.

Arcade_Tryer

Dravokivich wrote: »

They need to start being responsible for themselves.

They are. It was the planners of the Luas project who acted irresponsibly in failing to provide adequate infrastructure for cycling.

Also, it's hard for cyclists to be responsible around Luas tracks when motorists are breathing down their necks, honking horns and cutting them off.

AngryLips

Regarding the lack of frequency: why can't they just move trams over from the red line to compensate?

Stephen15

AngryLips wrote: »

Regarding the lack of frequency: why can't they just move trams over from the red line to compensate?

Because that would result in a lack of frequency on the red line

AngryLips

Stephen15 wrote: »

Because that would result in a lack of frequency on the red line

Maybe someone else can confirm but I don’t think the utilization on red line was without any slack

goingnowhere

AngryLips wrote: »

Regarding the lack of frequency: why can't they just move trams over from the red line to compensate?

At least 5 have been moved over

trellheim

It has been said already but a cyclist will be killed very likely on the inner core within 12 months because of LUAS and the tramlines. the manner of the death may not be via LUAS ( maybe a bus, may be a car ) but that will be what the root cause was.

TheQuietFella

Stephen15 wrote: »

Safety issues as in passenger, pedestrian or cyclist safety issues.

These people don't give a hoot! Personal safety is always someone else's problem.

devnull

Posts relating to the LUAS fleet in general is not really related to this topic so has been moved to a new thread
https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057823351

- Moderator

flaneur

My issues:

1. Leap Card readers: More of them needed! A few scattered around the tram stops is totally insufficient at busy stops.
2. Stop design at busy stops - notably Jervis. They're unpleasant to wait and and need to be reviewed.

Stephen15

flaneur wrote: »

My issues:

1. Leap Card readers: More of them needed! A few scattered around the tram stops is totally insufficient at busy stops.
2. Stop design at busy stops - notably Jervis. They're unpleasant to wait and and need to be reviewed.

What do you suggest could be done to improve stop design. It's all well and good criticise flaws without suggesting a viable solution to those flaws.

Hugh Jampton

trellheim wrote: »

It has been said already but a cyclist will be killed very likely on the inner core within 12 months because of LUAS and the tramlines. the manner of the death may not be via LUAS ( maybe a bus, may be a car ) but that will be what the root cause was.

So, not their own fault then, and acting as an ally of those who never wanted rail based PT in Dublin. Well done *claps*

Radio Gold

The Luas Cross city line has not appeared on Google Maps even though it went into service nearly 3 weeks ago, it only mentions the new stops on it.

flaneur

Stephen15 wrote: »

What do you suggest could be done to improve stop design. It's all well and good criticise flaws without suggesting a viable solution to those flaws.

I can criticise as an end user experiencing problems with the deign without putting forward anything, as I’m not an public transport designer or architect with expertise in people flows through spaces.

They could maybe use automatic announcements asking people to allow passengers to exit the tram before boarding for a start.

Then maybe ensure that there is some kind of marking on the pavement to encourage people to flow in a more optimized way.

The biggest issue is lack of card readers. They need lots of them at the busy stops.

Stephen15

Radio Gold wrote: »

The Luas Cross city line has not appeared on Google Maps even though it went into service nearly 3 weeks ago, it only mentions the new stops on it.

Yes I noticed that myself and thought it was a bit odd that they would put the new stops on it but not the new line. They should put the line on it a couple of months ago and then put the stops on it when it opened.

Also Google's transport map of Dublin only shows the two Luas lines no mention of DART or any other railways that are there. You'd expect better from a company which has Dublin as it's European HQ.

Stephen15

flaneur wrote: »

I can criticise as an end user experiencing problems with the deign without putting forward anything, as I’m not an public transport designer or architect with expertise in people flows through spaces.

They could maybe use automatic announcements asking people to allow passengers to exit the tram before boarding for a start.

Then maybe ensure that there is some kind of marking on the pavement to encourage people to flow in a more optimized way.

The biggest issue is lack of card readers. They need lots of them at the busy stops.

Yes I agree with about lack of card readers. I also think they should put some on board trams and if someone misses their stop as a result of not tagging off quickly enough that's their tough sh1t. A number of other cities have readers/validators on board trams.

As for automatic announcements I don't think they are a good idea especially at stops that are not used solely by Luas passengers such as Jervis and the new BXD as they only annoy people who not necessarily Luas passengers and they as a potential target market could be put off them. It would be similar to having annoucements at bus stops.

flaneur

You just need the internal announcement system to say : "Please allow passengers to exit the tram before attempting to board!!" Doesn't have to be a loud platform announcement and only needs to go on at peak crush times.

It's that or occasionally have platform attendants to control the flow a bit.

Stephen15

flaneur wrote: »

You just need the internal announcement system to say : "Please allow passengers to exit the tram before attempting to board!!" Doesn't have to be a loud platform announcement and only needs to go on at peak crush times.

It's that or occasionally have platform attendants to control the flow a bit.

The thing about annoucements is they only annoy people look at IE and their long winded annoucements on board and they will also have to be As Beárla agus As Gaelige making them even more long winded. The annoucements would likely fall on deaf ears as ignorant people will continue to be ignorant just like the people who continue to put their feet on seats on the DART despite the annoucements. As you can see we don't have the same public transport etiquette that they do in the UK.

Having platform attendants isin't a bad idea perhaps you could utilise revenue protection and the STT guards for it at peak hours. Also the railings at the SSG stop need to be removed.

Arcade_Tryer

Stephen15 wrote: »

The thing about annoucements is they only annoy people look at IE and their long winded annoucements on board and they will also have to be As Beárla agus As Gaelige

Stopping this nonsense would be a start to finding a solution. Those IE announcements are torturous.

TallGlass

trellheim wrote: »

It has been said already but a cyclist will be killed very likely on the inner core within 12 months because of LUAS and the tramlines. the manner of the death may not be via LUAS ( maybe a bus, may be a car ) but that will be what the root cause was.

If someone is going to be killed by the design, then I really do think that as an issue should take extreme priority over any other issue. There is nothing worse than time and time again, DCC only waking up at the wheel when someone is killed. Sad thing is it's usually a simple measures that is needed to put a stop to anyone been killed.

Be nice to see some proactive steps in this regard. No one should lose there life, what ever about delays or bad sequences, life takes priority in my books and if this is as serious as it sounds it should be addressed quickly.