Motorists to be informed why their insurance premiums change

Beta Ray Bill

Read the below this morning.

According to the article, as of next year we'll be told exactly why our insurance is going up or down.

I think it's a step in the right direction in terms of transparency on Insurance, but I feel we've still a long way to go.
Ideally we need a list of how much each person is paying for insurance and how much each claim costs an insurance company, only then will we have the full picture.

Honestly, I'm dreading next years insurance renewal.
I've a Bike and a Car and I'm guestimating it'll be just under €2,000, based on renewal costs over the last 3 years. :eek:

http://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/motorists-to-be-informed-why-their-insurance-premiums-change-819533.html

An annual database on motor insurance trends will be published by the Central Bank starting from next year, writes Political Correspondent Juno McEnroe.

Motorists to be informed why their insurance premiums change

The decision was taken by Cabinet yesterday and will see motorists informed why premiums go up or down. Consumer advocates and opposition TDs have been outraged over the sky-high rates being charged by insurance companies in recent years.

The European Commission last year even carried out raids on motor insurance companies in a bid to check if they were engaging in anti-competitive practices.

The Cost of Insurance Working Group recently presented its first report to the Government. The first steps towards the new group were set up by Housing Minister Eoghan Murphy, when he was junior minister for finance.

The Cabinet has examined the report and yesterday agreed that a National Claims Information Database will help facilitate a more in-depth analysis of annual trends in motor insurance claims.

This will help shed light on how claims costs are having an impact on premiums, and understanding the relationship between the price paid by a customer for motor insurance and the cost to insurance undertakings.

The Central Bank will publish an annual report on the data. However, a government spokesman could not say if this would include actual details or names of specific insurance companies and their rates being charged.

Nonetheless, it is hoped the data published will increase transparency on the relationship between insurance premiums and related costs, said the Government.

Drivers in recent years have been charged multiples of their premiums with insurers often claiming that the level and costs of accidents are contributing towards the sharp rises.

The government says the new database will identify current and emerging trends in the market, the factors that drive movements in the price of insurance and the number of claims annually.

The last government had blamed motor insurance rises on the frequency of claims by drivers, on the fact the amounts claimed had also risen and there had been a rise in legal costs. New material and figures that will be published in the database by the Central Bank will also provide statistical analyses of the costs associated with settling claims as well as, the Government said, an “understanding [of] the settlement channels used”.

Fianna Fáil’s Michael McGrath, who has been trying to drive reform of the sector, has previously said: “Seven out of every 10 claims are settled out of court by insurance companies, with no register or evidence as to consistency with regard to the settlement of those claims.”

cruizer101

Doesn't give any date, my renewal is in March hopefully be set up by then.
It's a step in the right direction at least. Talks of claims register also which is good

Beta Ray Bill

cruizer101 wrote: »

Talks of claims register also which is good

I think that's be good across the board, not just for motor insurance but for every type of Insurance offered in the country.

Sue Pa Key Pa

It can only be a good thing that motor insurance is under the microscope. However, this is not going to be the solution in isolation. Don't expect to be given a detailed explanation as to how your individual premium is calculated, it wouldn't be practical. I'd expect it more to be along the lines of "Our claims experience for your age demographic, vehicle class and location experienced a 9% rise in cost over last year and your premium will increase accordingly"

What will be of benefit to all is if they publish the headline figures such as legal fees paid, claims paid for each class of injury or damage, claims investigation costs.etc. If these associated costs are out in the public arena for discussion, I'm sure the demand for change will hopefully get things moving. Premiums will always reflect claims and the only way to bring down premiums is to reduce these costs or for the State to subsidise the cover.

NIMAN

Great news.

But I am sure they will still be able to find an excuse to explain why my insurance rises each and every year despite never claiming.

GhostyMcGhost

Got my renewal for Jan in

My NCB discount rate is being reduced from 55% to 52%

(No claims, and an extra year NCB)

Going to ring them and pull them up on that. Not impressed with Allianz

Beta Ray Bill

GhostyMcGhost wrote: »

Got my renewal for Jan in

My NCB discount rate is being reduced from 55% to 52%

(No claims, and an extra year NCB)

Going to ring them and pull them up on that. Not impressed with Allianz

Wtf?!
Seriously!?

They are reducing the NCB across the board so.
Anyone else with Allianz get a similar letter recently?

LirW

I'm just wondering if there will be a default letter with "Premium goes up X% for you this year because we had a high amount of claims, sorry for that".

Will there also be information why insurance costs what it costs when you want to take out a new policy for a new car?
I imagine that being an interesting one, especially when people buy older cars or are holding an EU license. I imagine in both cases using that as reason for astronomical insurance would kick up an insane fuss.

Sue Pa Key Pa

GhostyMcGhost wrote: »

Got my renewal for Jan in

My NCB discount rate is being reduced from 55% to 52%

(No claims, and an extra year NCB)

Going to ring them and pull them up on that. Not impressed with Allianz

I never understand people's fixation with NCB. It is the amount you pay that is important. Would you rather get 60% off a €2,000 basic premium or 50% off a €1,000 basic premium? In fact, the higher percentage NCB you have, the bigger the premium increase you will have following a claim, unless it is fully protected

georgefalls

Dear Sir,
the reason your vehicle insurance quote has more than doubled, is because we know you will roll over and be severely shafted.

Beta Ray Bill

georgefalls wrote: »

Dear Sir,
the reason your vehicle insurance quote has more than doubled, is because we know you will roll over and be severely shafted.

2 years ago I would have agreed with you.

But now I'm at the point where I'm asking myself "Can I actually afford to insure 2 vehicles?"

LirW

grahambo wrote: »

2 years ago I would have agreed with you.

But now I'm at the point where I'm asking myself "Can I actually afford to insure 2 vehicles?"

Same situation, my renewal is most likely going to be pretty high and I'm tight on money at the moment, I'll probably find myself struggling insuring my car.

I always think "What could we do, why can this happen" when in reality we all have our hands tied.

Fanny Wank

I want to know why premiums more than halved between 2003 and 2007

MissShihTzu

I got mine through from Liberty. It's a 40% rise and I've full no claims! I have no idea why. I thought premiums were supposed to be going down?

corcaigh1

Sue Pa Key Pa wrote: »

It can only be a good thing that motor insurance is under the microscope. However, this is not going to be the solution in isolation. Don't expect to be given a detailed explanation as to how your individual premium is calculated, it wouldn't be practical. I'd expect it more to be along the lines of "Our claims experience for your age demographic, vehicle class and location experienced a 9% rise in cost over last year and your premium will increase accordingly"

What will be of benefit to all is if they publish the headline figures such as legal fees paid, claims paid for each class of injury or damage, claims investigation costs.etc. If these associated costs are out in the public arena for discussion, I'm sure the demand for change will hopefully get things moving. Premiums will always reflect claims and the only way to bring down premiums is to reduce these costs or for the State to subsidise the cover.

Exactly...this will make fudge all difference, insurance companies will just print whatever they feel will make it hard for the average joe to decipher...

lawred2

Meaningless

DaveyDave

So the number of claims are up...how many people have been paying out for insurance for 10-20 years and never claimed, so the insurer is essentially up thousands upon thousands of Euro just for one person. Everyone's quotes went up 200-300% in just 2 years across the board and even right now several people I know have to change each year because their current insurer throws out a 25-50% increase on their renewal and they just ring the next crowd and get a quote better than the first year.

MissShihTzu wrote: »

I got mine through from Liberty. It's a 40% rise and I've full no claims! I have no idea why. I thought premiums were supposed to be going down?

Wasn't it back in August or something that apparently the average quote went down 4% compared to the previous year?

Fann Linn

Anyone who rings up insurance companies already querying their quotes will know why the increase, ie
: Its the cost of claims.
:Your car is over 15 years old.
:You have 2/3/4 penalty points.
:You have a provisional licence.
And on and on and on.

Now you'll get all of the above in writing with your renewal.

the_syco

Fann Linn wrote: »

Anyone who rings up insurance companies already querying their quotes will know why the increase, ie
: Its the cost of claims.
:Your car is over 15 years old.
:You have 2/3/4 penalty points.
:You have a provisional licence.
And on and on and on.

Now you'll get all of the above in writing with your renewal.

I know people with no claims 5+ years, (non-boy racer) cars less than 6 years old, no points on full license, etc, having their insurance doubled. No reason given, other than the crap that the cost of claims have risen. Simply, people are being charged for the mistakes of others. It's a farce.

corcaigh1

Fann Linn wrote: »

Anyone who rings up insurance companies already querying their quotes will know why the increase, ie
: Its the cost of claims.
:Your car is over 15 years old.
:You have 2/3/4 penalty points.
:You have a provisional licence.
And on and on and on.

Now you'll get all of the above in writing with your renewal.

Its the cost of claims = Nonsense
Your car is over 15 years old. = Nonsense

LirW

Isn't it the insurance company's job to manage their claim outgoing by properly checking how genuine cases are? Maybe stop awarding ridiculous sums for "soft tissue injuries".

Sue Pa Key Pa

LirW wrote: »

Isn't it the insurance company's job to manage their claim outgoing by properly checking how genuine cases are? Maybe stop awarding ridiculous sums for "soft tissue injuries".

A claimant who provides medical confirmation that they have soft tissue damage is LEGALLY entitled to the ridiculous levels of compensation paid in Ireland compared to other countries. Insurers cannot decide to stop paying these amounts on a whim

LirW

Then clamp down on the sums that get paid out for that. I appreciate the legal obligation, that's what insurance is for but it's too easy to get paid crazy stuff for banging your knee. I'm also aware that the legal profession gets a huge chunk out of it if the case goes to court. But this is where it is flawed and it basically brings plenty of people in financial predicament because many aren't in the position to pay 2 - 3k in Third party insurance and it holds back young drivers to get on the road, which encourages uninsured driving. Especially when you live rural.

Sue Pa Key Pa

LirW wrote: »

Then clamp down on the sums that get paid out for that. QUOTE]

The stupid sums that they get paid are laid out in the Book of Quantum. Insurers can only make the call to either accept the level assessed by the Injuries Board, try and negotiate a lower amount or take a gamble in court where you can be sure the award won't be lower than the Book of Quantum and then add in all the associated legal costs

EPAndlee

Is anyone else's premiums going down? My insurance has never gone up. Got about €150 back when I swapped cars mid policy this year

DaveyDave

LirW wrote: »

Then clamp down on the sums that get paid out for that. I appreciate the legal obligation, that's what insurance is for but it's too easy to get paid crazy stuff for banging your knee. I'm also aware that the legal profession gets a huge chunk out of it if the case goes to court. But this is where it is flawed and it basically brings plenty of people in financial predicament because many aren't in the position to pay 2 - 3k in Third party insurance and it holds back young drivers to get on the road, which encourages uninsured driving. Especially when you live rural.

I could he wrong but didn't Ireland actually increase the payout on whiplash in recent years? I think the UK is trying to cap theirs. I couldn't find any articles at the moment as I'm on mobile but I just read an article by Aviva saying the UK's much higher claims compared to the mainland Europe could be due to the lack of needing a lawyer for claims in the likes of France and Germany. It doesn't seem like there's a big claiming culture in other countries. They also seem to have a no BS approach to the medical claims?

Sue Pa Key Pa

DaveyDave wrote: »

I could he wrong but didn't Ireland actually increase the payout on whiplash in recent years? I think the UK is trying to cap theirs. I couldn't find any articles at the moment as I'm on mobile but I just read an article by Aviva saying the UK's much higher claims compared to the mainland Europe could be due to the lack of needing a lawyer for claims in the likes of France and Germany. It doesn't seem like there's a big claiming culture in other countries. They also seem to have a no BS approach to the medical claims?

You're correct. In the UK, they are heading down the unlimited treatment route for whiplash rather than paying cash. Not something which would interest a scammer to pursue

LirW

DaveyDave wrote: »

I could he wrong but didn't Ireland actually increase the payout on whiplash in recent years? I think the UK is trying to cap theirs. I couldn't find any articles at the moment as I'm on mobile but I just read an article by Aviva saying the UK's much higher claims compared to the mainland Europe could be due to the lack of needing a lawyer for claims in the likes of France and Germany. It doesn't seem like there's a big claiming culture in other countries. They also seem to have a no BS approach to the medical claims?

I just know it from my old policy, which was a Third party: If you damage a car, the insurance will pay the claimant after the garage sent the repair bill for the damage (they have a No BS approach to clamp down on more repair that doesn't have anything to do with the accident). That is very straight forward and easy.
If you're suffering from a minor soft tissue injury you wouldn't bother claiming for that, I'm talking for example a banged knee that leaves you sore for a few days.
If you're suffering from major injuries, that's another thing and can be certainly a pain. You have to go to court for that because the insurance only pays if the claimant wins the case. My father was involved in a terrible accident (other party was a drunk driver) where his best friend died. He had to spend several weeks in hospital and had to go through a humiliating court case where the other party accused him of walking at the side of the road drunk (he was sober for over a decade). He eventually won but the payout was pretty little afaik.

boardsuser1

My quotes in recent years are as follows:

2015 €550
2016 €750
2017 €900*


I changed car 3 weeks after the policy renewal and had to pay an extra €140 + €30 admin fee, so i am paying more than double that of the 2015 rate, yet i haven't asked them to pay a red cent for anything, have a full NCB the works.

If AXA come back in April for my renewal with a less than impressive figure i won't be extending that relationship into an 11th year.

I'm with them longer than i'm with my wife :rolleyes:

the_syco

Sue Pa Key Pa wrote: »

A claimant who provides medical confirmation that they have soft tissue damage is LEGALLY entitled to the ridiculous levels of compensation paid in Ireland compared to other countries. Insurers cannot decide to stop paying these amounts on a whim

Actually, they can. Instead of paying out to the individual, money goes straight to the hospital. I think this is what they are doing it in the UK to cut costs of claims, as the scammers no longer get "free money".

Sue Pa Key Pa

the_syco wrote: »

Actually, they can. Instead of paying out to the individual, money goes straight to the hospital. I think this is what they are doing it in the UK to cut costs of claims, as the scammers no longer get "free money".

Actually, they can't.

Your suggestion has merit but it is not a decision an insurer can make. It would take a change in the law and there is a whole group of people who wouldn't be happy with that