Can bouncers take an ID

Jamansie123

Can a bouncer take an ID if they think it is fake?

Atlantic Dawn

I'd say technically no but then if they have it and pass it on to Gardaí they would be doing the state some service so to speak.

Jamansie123

So if someone was refused entry and ID was taken could they request it back and go somewhere else?

Jamansie123

So if someone was refused entry and ID was taken could they request it back and go somewhere else?

jimmycrackcorm

If it's real ID then that's theft.
If not then we'll never hear about it after...

happywithlife

Only a spoiled pr@t would demand their fake ID back with backtalk to a bouncer about their "rights"
go home. Go to school. Get a job if you're not in school. *would be my response to someone if they asked me themselves.
I'd sincerely hope the fake ID is kept and handed over the garda - surely it's evidence of a crime ?


Mod

Pls moderate your posting style here

evolving_doors

happywithlife wrote: »

Only a spoiled pr@t would demand their fake ID back with backtalk to a bouncer about their "rights"
go home. Go to school. Get a job if you're not in school. *would be my response to someone if they asked me themselves.
I'd sincerely hope the fake ID is kept and handed over the garda - surely it's evidence of a crime ?

Who said it was fake?

Could a bouncer take a passport?

happywithlife

evolving_doors wrote: »

Who said it was fake?

Could a bouncer take a passport?

I'm saying if it were fake
Tbh the brevity of detail in op smacked to me at least of a youngster having their fake ID taken away. Maybe not. I'd have expected a full story if op was in the right

hullaballoo

Moderator: @happywithlife have a look at the forum charter before posting here again. This is a forum for discussion of the law.

lifeandtimes

If they think it's fake or know it's fake are two different things.

Bouncers aremaren't rds and can't make assumptions and take the law into their own hands i.e. confiscating IDs they assume to be fake.

If however the ID is made of cardboard etc the cam take it too the guards, throw it away etc and the owner can do little about it.

If the ID is genuine and they just assume it too be fake then them taking it is theft and as such should be reported to the guards

prinzeugen

When I worked in an off licence, we were instructed by the local Garda, to keep any fake or altered ID (Irish issued only. We could not keep an altered UK licence for example).

We used to get photocopied licences, out of date passports (refuse service but let them take the passport away), the "national ID cards" you could by online etc.

The most common at the time one was altered licences. The idiots would change the DOB and picture but not the licence issue dates. Passed your test at 14 did you? Don't think so. We kept them and they would be collected by the cops.

If the person had an issue with us keeping the ID we told them to call the Garda. If I remember, only one person was foolish enough to give them a call!

prinzeugen

Just thought of an example of when we could not take a fake.

As I said, we could not keep anything that was "issued" outside Ireland.

I remember one lad with a UK driving licence. Being from the UK originally myself, I could see it was fake. (Looked genuine at first but spotted 2 big giveaways that I won't post in case anyone gets ideas!!).

Refused service and sent on his way.

pillphil

Just as an aside, what if the id clearly didn't belong to the person presenting it?

prinzeugen

pillphil wrote: »

Just as an aside, what if the id clearly didn't belong to the person presenting it?

We would have kept it and told the person to contact the Garda if they wanted us to give it back to them.

They never did though....

Peregrinus

Even a fake ID belongs to somebody, and depriving them of it can be theft.

However if it really is fake they might be unlikely to complain to the guards.

prinzeugen

Peregrinus wrote: »

Even a fake ID belongs to somebody, and depriving them of it can be theft.

However if it really is fake they might be unlikely to complain to the guards.

But the penalty for staff allowing underage persons in or worse selling alcohol to underage persons is stiffer than a theft charge.

As we have both said.. If there is any issue, call the Garda.

Peregrinus

prinzeugen wrote: »

But the penalty for staff allowing underage persons in or worse selling alcohol to underage persons is stiffer than a theft charge.

True. But it's not a simple binary; you can refuse to serve/admit someone, while at the same time not confiscating their dodgy ID. That way you avoid both risks.

Samuel T. Cogley

I'd say it's not theft.

4.—(1) Subject to section 5 , a person is guilty of theft if he or she dishonestly appropriates property without the consent of its owner and with the intention of depriving its owner of it.

There's no dishonesty here - the bouncer is confiscating it to pass it on (presumably). Furthermore the person can get it back from the guards if they wish.

Edit:

5) In this section—


“appropriates”, in relation to property, means usurps or adversely interferes with the proprietary rights of the owner of the property;


“depriving” means temporarily or permanently depriving.

Peregrinus

The bouncer wouldn't be acting dishonestly if he honestly believed he had a right to take possession of the ID against the wishes of the owner.

But on what basis would he honestly believe that? He knows that he himself certainly does not own the ID, and he has (let's assume) no reason to doubt that the person who has presented it is he true owner. So what does he imagine gives him the right to take it away?

Samuel T. Cogley

Peregrinus wrote: »

The bouncer wouldn't be acting dishonestly if he honestly believed he had a right to take possession of the ID against the wishes of the owner.

But on what basis would he honestly believe that? He knows that he himself certainly does not own the ID, and he has (let's assume) no reason to doubt that the person who has presented it is he true owner. So what does he imagine gives him the right to take it away?

I certainly take your point, but why take the ID if they think it's theft is the other side of the same argument (IMHO).

Consonata

What if the ID was broken by the bouncer, i.e snapped. This has happened to me recently

Del2005

Peregrinus wrote: »

Even a fake ID belongs to somebody, and depriving them of it can be theft.

However if it really is fake they might be unlikely to complain to the guards.

Don't passports belong to the Minster or the department for Foreign Affairs? Are licences similarly owned by the issuing authority? If so they are being returned to the owner when they are collected by the Gardai.

Samuel T. Cogley

Consonata wrote: »

What if the ID was broken by the bouncer, i.e snapped. This has happened to me recently

Arrest him for criminal damage (Joking).