Gatlin under scrutiny again

Down South

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/12/18/exclusive-investigation-world-100m-champion-justin-gatlin-embroiled/

pconn062

Wow, I'm so shocked. Gatlin in a doping scandal.

El Caballo

http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/general/athletics/justin-gatlin-doping-drugs-coach-fired-allegations-investigation-telegraph-a8117706.html

He's fired Dennis Mitchell now. Tbh, I find his statement insulting that he is shocked that Mitchell could be doing this as anyone who has a keen interest in the sport knows what Mitchell is like. The guy who famously tested positive for testosterone and used the excuse of drinking and sex with his wife as the reason for testing positive.

I wish he'd just retire, I'm sick of all the bs and his inability to speak the truth. 2 failed tests and worked with the two of the proven dirtiest coaches in sprinting and he can still come out with the "I have never taken PEDS in my career" line:rolleyes:. A lot of people commented during the World Champs that Gaitlin got treated unfairly, my bollix:rolleyes:. I'd may have some shred of sympathy for him if he admitted his past problems rather than spitting in the face of fans with and insulting everyones intelligence with statements like this and his refusal to talk about past.

Chivito550

El Caballo wrote: »

http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/general/athletics/justin-gatlin-doping-drugs-coach-fired-allegations-investigation-telegraph-a8117706.html

He's fired Dennis Mitchell now. Tbh, I find his statement insulting that he is shocked that Mitchell could be doing this as anyone who has a keen interest in the sport knows what Mitchell is like. The guy who famously tested positive for testosterone and used the excuse of drinking and sex with his wife as the reason for testing positive.

I wish he'd just retire, I'm sick of all the bs and his inability to speak the truth. 2 failed tests and worked with the two of the proven dirtiest coaches in sprinting and he can still come out with the "I have never taken PEDS in my career" line:rolleyes:. A lot of people commented during the World Champs that Gaitlin got treated unfairly, my bollix:rolleyes:. I'd may have some shred of sympathy for him if he admitted his past problems rather than spitting in the face of fans with and insulting everyones intelligence with statements like this and his refusal to talk about past.

Well he did get treated unfairly. No other convicted drug cheats got booed. One person getting punished more than others for the same crime is by definition “unfair”.

skyblue46

Chivito550 wrote: »

Well he did get treated unfairly. No other convicted drug cheats got booed. One person getting punished more than others for the same crime is by definition “unfair”.

Listened to more on this tonight. Mitchell implicated many more runners but their names were redacted. The drug makers slightly change the make up of the formula to stay one step ahead of the testers. Sad to say but sport is riddled with it and scapegoating one athlete is unfair.

El Caballo

Chivito550 wrote: »

Well he did get treated unfairly. No other convicted drug cheats got booed. One person getting punished more than others for the same crime is by definition “unfair”.

skyblue46 wrote: »

Listened to more on this tonight. Mitchell implicated many more runners but their names were redacted. The drug makers slightly change the make up of the formula to stay one step ahead of the testers. Sad to say but sport is riddled with it and scapegoating one athlete is unfair.

I'll start this off with everyone's favourite go to guy, Lance Armstrong. It comes with the territory of winning and being high profile. Hell, Armstrong even admitted to it which Gaitlin hasn't despite the evidence being stronger against him. The bigger they are, the harder they fall. I never see Jan Ulrich mentioned despit him being second to Armstrong so many times. Justin Gaitlin has 5 Olympic medals and 8 World championship medals and has gained huge benefits in publicity and monetarily from that, the publicity works both ways though, if you're willing to live by the sword, you also have to be willing to die by it.

He's had his chances to own up and won't. I'm not sure you can call a two time proven drug cheat who has lied and cheated his way to millions upon millions of dollars a scapegoat. This is a guy who wants to get all the attention and respect of being the best in the World but thinks that his doping background warrants no attention. Life doesn't work like that, you can't just take take take.

I'll be the first to admit the sport has a problem as a whole and one which will probably never be fixed, doping is as old as sport itself from tribes taking magic mushrooms or chewing on coca leaves to gain an advantage to athletes taking rat poison and moonshine in the very first Olympic marathon. But liars who can't own up to their mistakes have what's coming to them in my opinion. The pressures and temptation must be huge in Pro sports and some may falter but to deny against all the proof shows an extreme lack of character and that person can be played as a victim is a farce imo. You can only blame the system so much before you have to realise that people have free will to choose and Gaitlin has had more opportunities than anyone to admit to his mistakes or lack of as it would be more apparent with every new denial.

Chivito550

El Caballo wrote: »

I'll start this off with everyone's favourite go to guy, Lance Armstrong. It comes with the territory of winning and being high profile. Hell, Armstrong even admitted to it which Gaitlin hasn't despite the evidence being stronger against him. The bigger they are, the harder they fall. I never see Jan Ulrich mentioned despit him being second to Armstrong so many times. Justin Gaitlin has 5 Olympic medals and 8 World championship medals and has gained huge benefits in publicity and monetarily from that, the publicity works both ways though, if you're willing to live by the sword, you also have to be willing to die by it.

He's had his chances to own up and won't. I'm not sure you can call a two time proven drug cheat who has lied and cheated his way to millions upon millions of dollars a scapegoat. This is a guy who wants to get all the attention and respect of being the best in the World but thinks that his doping background warrants no attention. Life doesn't work like that, you can't just take take take.

I'll be the first to admit the sport has a problem as a whole and one which will probably never be fixed, doping is as old as sport itself from tribes taking magic mushrooms or chewing on coca leaves to gain an advantage to athletes taking rat poison and moonshine in the very first Olympic marathon. But liars who can't own up to their mistakes have what's coming to them in my opinion. The pressures and temptation must be huge in Pro sports and some may falter but to deny against all the proof shows an extreme lack of character and that person can be played as a victim is a farce imo. You can only blame the system so much before you have to realise that people have free will to choose and Gaitlin has had more opportunities than anyone to admit to his mistakes or lack of as it would be more apparent with every new denial.

Didn’t Gatlin apologise for his past recently. He didn’t go into specifics but pretty sure he apologised.

I don’t like Gatlin, but he’s not Armstrong. Lance is not equal to Ulrich. Did Ulrich make people’s lives absolute hell? Did he call his masseuse a whore in public? Did he hide behind a disease anytime he was questioned? The least of Armstrong’s crimes IMO is the actual doping.

El Caballo

Chivito550 wrote: »

Didn’t Gatlin apologise for his past recently. He didn’t go into specifics but pretty sure he apologised.

I don’t like Gatlin, but he’s not Armstrong. Lance is not equal to Ulrich. Did Ulrich make people’s lives absolute hell? Did he call his masseuse a whore in public? Did he hide behind a disease anytime he was questioned? The least of Armstrong’s crimes IMO is the actual doping.

He apologised for the controversy which means nothing and still says he was sabotaged for the positive test. All the evidence over his career says otherwise yet he refuses to be honest or even talk about that.

My point was that this isn't a trial for a crime, he's already been banned for that and no one would say his ban was unfair, if anything he was lucky. Like Armstrong, he's getting the reaction because of his character and profile. I'm not saying he is as bad as Armstrong but the situation is similar.

Chivito550

El Caballo wrote: »

He apologised for the controversy which means nothing and still says he was sabotaged for the positive test. All the evidence over his career says otherwise yet he refuses to be honest or even talk about that.

My point was that this isn't a trial for a crime, he's already been banned for that and no one would say his ban was unfair, if anything he was lucky. Like Armstrong, he's getting the reaction because of his character and profile. I'm not saying he is as bad as Armstrong but the situation is similar.

Gatlin didn’t get booed in London 2012. The booing only started after Steve Cram built up the Good v Evil rubbish in leadup to Beijing 2015. This booing only has gathered legs since Gatlin became a threat to Bolt. It has got little to do with his character.

I’ve seen Gatlin up close countless times. He’s actually not a bad guy really. He’s extremely gracious and polite with his competitors and the media (except when doping is brought up and his demeanor changes).

Ideally he should be banned for life, like all others with serious doping convictions, but the fact is he is not, and he shouldn’t be made a scapegoat. Amantle Montsho got clapped in London, same for many others.

El Caballo

Chivito550 wrote: »

Gatlin didn’t get booed in London 2012. The booing only started after Steve Cram built up the Good v Evil rubbish in leadup to Beijing 2015. This booing only has gathered legs since Gatlin became a threat to Bolt. It has got little to do with his character.

I’ve seen Gatlin up close countless times. He’s actually not a bad guy really. He’s extremely gracious and polite with his competitors and the media (except when doping is brought up and his demeanor changes).

Ideally he should be banned for life, like all others with serious doping convictions, but the fact is he is not, and he shouldn’t be made a scapegoat. Amantle Montsho got clapped in London, same for many others.

I said because of his profile and character. Winning draws attention. It's the last time I'll say it as I already feel like I'm on a loop. You said it yourself "except when doping is brought up"

Look, actions speak louder than words. Gaitlin wrote a letter of apology to the IAAF when returning from his second ban saying sorry for the controversy and that he would go out to kids and athletes alike and spread the word on antidoping and the pitfalls of getting caught up with the wrong people. What does he do when he is eligible to compete again? Hires a convicted drug cheat who was also involved in the BALCO scandal and one his buddies from the days of training under another Scandal ridden coach in Trevor Graham.

He says all of this but then associates himself with the dirtiest coaches in all of track and field. So far, Gaitlin has been involved with Victor Conte, Dennis Mitchell, Trevor Graham and Angel Hereida in his career. All of whom were major players in the Balco scandal and beyond. These are his actions and say much more about him than his words. I find it incredulous that anyone who has a rap sheet like Gaitlin can be considered a scapegoat.

Gaitlin ran faster at 33 than he had when we know he taking drugs during his prime. You might blame Steve Cram for pointing it out but the fact is that everyone who watched athletics intently was already thinking what Cram was saying. Here you have a guy with two previous doping convictions running faster at age 33 than he did at 24. That is why it all came to a head in 2015, people started thinking he's doping again.

average_runner

Chivito550 wrote: »

Gatlin didn’t get booed in London 2012. The booing only started after Steve Cram built up the Good v Evil rubbish in leadup to Beijing 2015. This booing only has gathered legs since Gatlin became a threat to Bolt. It has got little to do with his character.

I’ve seen Gatlin up close countless times. He’s actually not a bad guy really. He’s extremely gracious and polite with his competitors and the media (except when doping is brought up and his demeanor changes).

Ideally he should be banned for life, like all others with serious doping convictions, but the fact is he is not, and he shouldn’t be made a scapegoat. Amantle Montsho got clapped in London, same for many others.

Problem is Gatlin is famous and Amantle Montsho is a nobody to the average punter at the olympics. They probably didn't hear of her before.

Maybe Gatlin is getting treated a bit harsh but that's his own fault, he made those decisions and not the fans.

El Caballo

This story also has huge implications outside of just Gaitlin as well. Dennis Mitchell was the head of the USATF 4x100m relay squad for the Olympics and World Championships for 3 years. How a governing body could justify hiring a convicted drug cheat as a national head coach is beyond me and they'll have a lot of questions to answer to as well.

Tombo2001

Chivito550 wrote: »

Well he did get treated unfairly. No other convicted drug cheats got booed. One person getting punished more than others for the same crime is by definition “unfair”.

He was booed because he won.

Dwain Chambers was never accepted back into the fold by the UK media or audiences. However they never had the dilemna of seeing him win an world 100 metres.

The whole of Russian athletics has been banned. I dont have any sympathy for Justin Gatlin, just because he is being treated relatively harshly to other proven cheats. Most athletics fans would prefer if he had never competed again after his drugs ban.

Chivito550

El Caballo wrote: »

I said because of his profile and character. Winning draws attention. It's the last time I'll say it as I already feel like I'm on a loop. You said it yourself "except when doping is brought up"

Look, actions speak louder than words. Gaitlin wrote a letter of apology to the IAAF when returning from his second ban saying sorry for the controversy and that he would go out to kids and athletes alike and spread the word on antidoping and the pitfalls of getting caught up with the wrong people. What does he do when he is eligible to compete again? Hires a convicted drug cheat who was also involved in the BALCO scandal and one his buddies from the days of training under another Scandal ridden coach in Trevor Graham.

He says all of this but then associates himself with the dirtiest coaches in all of track and field. So far, Gaitlin has been involved with Victor Conte, Dennis Mitchell, Trevor Graham and Angel Hereida in his career. All of whom were major players in the Balco scandal and beyond. These are his actions and say much more about him than his words. I find it incredulous that anyone who has a rap sheet like Gaitlin can be considered a scapegoat.

Gaitlin ran faster at 33 than he had when we know he taking drugs during his prime. You might blame Steve Cram for pointing it out but the fact is that everyone who watched athletics intently was already thinking what Cram was saying. Here you have a guy with two previous doping convictions running faster at age 33 than he did at 24. That is why it all came to a head in 2015, people started thinking he's doping again.

A lot of what you say is correct, and I certainly do not tolerate his past crimes or his actions.

I’m just pointing out the hypocrisy among the British public in relation to him. When others get clapped despite being just as brazen in their return then that shows ignorance among the public.

Just a few things to point out though. Gatlin’s first ban was due to medication relating to ADHD. He really should never have been banned for that and shouldn’t be called a two time drug cheat. Usually for a second offense you are banned for life, yet Gatlin wasn’t. That speaks volumes for the fact they got it wrong for his first ban.

A second thing is he had 4 years out from the sport in his mid to late 20s, so he hasn’t gathered the wear and tear of other athletes his age. In athletics terms aged 33, he was really a 29 year old.

Another important factor is that Gatlin has the most brilliant technique of any male sprinter on the circuit. As a sprinter I find myself watching videos of his sprint form. When you’ve got such brilliant form (which doping won’t necessarily improve IMO) it stands to reason that he’ll run well, and has an advantage over those who’s form is less smooth.

Again, no excuses for his second doping offense and in a perfect world, he and others with the same offense, should be gone for good, but it is important to look into the facts rather than just following the GB media.

El Caballo

Chivito550 wrote: »

A lot of what you say is correct, and I certainly do not tolerate his past crimes or his actions.

I’m just pointing out the hypocrisy among the British public in relation to him. When others get clapped despite being just as brazen in their return then that shows ignorance among the public.

Just a few things to point out though. Gatlin’s first ban was due to medication relating to ADHD. He really should never have been banned for that and shouldn’t be called a two time drug cheat. Usually for a second offense you are banned for life, yet Gatlin wasn’t. That speaks volumes for the fact they got it wrong for his first ban.

A second thing is he had 4 years out from the sport in his mid to late 20s, so he hasn’t gathered the wear and tear of other athletes his age. In athletics terms aged 33, he was really a 29 year old.

Another important factor is that Gatlin has the most brilliant technique of any male sprinter on the circuit. As a sprinter I find myself watching videos of his sprint form. When you’ve got such brilliant form (which doping won’t necessarily improve IMO) it stands to reason that he’ll run well, and has an advantage over those who’s form is less smooth.

Again, no excuses for his second doping offense and in a perfect world, he and others with the same offense, should be gone for good, but it is important to look into the facts rather than just following the GB media.

I know the facts. His first ban was still deserved, Many people here were critical of Maria Sharapova testing positive a couple of years ago when a previously legal supplement was banned and she was popped in the first month. Any athlete should be aware of these things and in Gaitlins case, he should know that ritalin is an amphetamine(it's basically speed) and is banned without a TUE. He failed the stupidity test and fair enough, that was taken into consideration for both his bans but that doesn't mean he shouldn't have got sanctioned. Maybe if he actually talked about these things when questioned instead of getting aggressive, the media and people in general would have a different perspective but he does himself no favours.

Gaitlin was not 29 in athletic terms in 2015. Yes wear and tear adds up but your body simply doesn't stop and wait while you are on a ban. In an event like the sprints, age deteriorates your ability for explosive power and recovery rapidly once you hit you hit your late 20's no matter what you do. He was running faster at 33 than when he was on testosterone for sure at age 25. Of course people are going to be sceptical and for good reason when someone runs faster than their doped up times. You have a reference nevermind taking into consideration that the guy is then approaching his mid 30's. His form may play a part in him being a great sprinter(no one can deny his talent) but it's irrelevant when it comes to doping.

At the end of day, he is only a victim of his own decisions and although he has the right to compete, he doesn't have the right to be liked or respected. I mean come on, he's just after saying that he is shocked that Dennis Mitchell has any involvement in doping:pac:. Whatever about Gaitlin, I hope USATF don't get off scott free in all this as they always do when scandals like this break.

Joe_ Public

“I am not using and have never used Peds.”

The first line of Gatlins statement. He’s lost it right there, nothing he can say is of any value after that. I have grave misgivings about these kind of sting operations, but he’s just digging a big hole for himself here. And on what basis is he threatening to sue anyway? The quotes I saw don’t say anything about him taking drugs, unless I’ve missed others.

walshb

He is a one times drugs cheat. Clean now and clean the past few years..

His convictions have been well exaggerated, making him out to be a far bigger "cheat" than he really was.

average_runner

walshb wrote: »

He is a one times drugs cheat. Clean now and clean the past few years..

His convictions have been well exaggerated, making him out to be a far bigger "cheat" than he really was.

There is only type of a cheater and that's a cheater. That's what he is.

Pherekydes

https://www.3wiresports.com/articles/2017/12/19/gwbc8ncpoh3iyb0xlw1p7zfo1qa09x

El Caballo

Pherekydes wrote: »

https://www.3wiresports.com/articles/2017/12/19/gwbc8ncpoh3iyb0xlw1p7zfo1qa09x

He says that Mitchell hasn't had any athletes test positive. That is untrue as Femi Ogunode tested positive for clenbuterol and was banned for two years while under Mitchell.

Then there's this quote:

Meanwhile, the Telegraph story hinges on the notion that Wagner is Gatlin’s agent. Which he is not. Which if the Telegraph had done some elemental reporting would have been easily documented. Is this a case where it's worth asking that familiar question: why let the facts get in the way of the story?

The problem with this is that Gaitlin has admitted that Wagner was an agent of his this month:

When the undercover reporters met the sports star at the beginning of December, the sprinter said Wagner has been his “race track” agent for around five years, alongside Nehemiah.

Gatlin said that Wagner arranged deals and travel and was paid a percentage of his earnings. “His connections run deep, deeper than he allows us to know,” the sprinter said.

The claim that Wagner had not represented Gailtin is bust.

And then there's this:

For nearly 10 years, Gatlin has made a very public point of being a stand-up guy, seeking to be an example of how it can be done clean. They teach us in journalism school to be skeptical of everyone and everything, and in elite sport there's ever the chance of something amiss. But this is a guy who had to work his way back from a four-year suspension during which, at maybe his lowest point, he — the 100-meter gold medalist at the 2004 Olympics — taught sprinting to 8-year-olds in Atlanta, just to make some money. Does it make logical sense that, having once had his station in life so reduced, he would now run the risk of trying to beat USADA or, for that matter, anyone in the testing game?

He hired Dennis Mitchell, a convicted drug cheat to coach him. A man that the author of this article defended heavily when the USATF hired Mitchell to be a sprint coach as well.

And here's the thing, Alan Abrahamson's wifes salary is paid by the IOC. She is a lawyer for CAS.

Gaitlin has prior as does Mitchell and if something like this doesn't warrant scrutiny in athletics, then nothing does. I find it very difficult to believe that someone like Mitchell can get involved in something like this to help out a guy to get a Hollywood job.