BMW in court over timing chain failures

homik

BMW could face upwards of 50 legal actions over an alleged defect that caused cars to suddenly lose power and stop.

Three of the cases were before Dublin District Court yesterday, which heard upwards of 50 more similar actions were in the offing. It is understood summonses in 20 of those cases have just been issued.

In the three cases before the court, BMW Automotive (Ireland) Ltd is accused of negligence by motorists who bought different models of 2008-reg BMWs, all of which are alleged to have experienced timing chain failures.

https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/courts/bmw-faces-raft-of-legal-cases-over-car-engine-defect-claim-36410267.html

biko

homik, don't news link dump
I added content from the article.
Now you need to provide the reason you posted/your own opinion.

homik

biko wrote: »

homik, don't news link dump
I added content from the article.
Now you need to provide the reason you posted/your own opinion.

I linked as it's relevant to many and the N47 failures were widely discussed here. I didn't know an explanation is needed. Please feel free to remove if it's against the forum rules.

John_Mc

Delighted to see this. Hope they have to divulge what information and statistics they have.

I had a N47 engine before and it was always at the back of my mind that the chain could go at any minute

AmberGold

Had one fail as well and due to the fact we had it serviced outside the official dealer network we were refused a repair.

Got the work done and the car was never right.

Big Nasty

I would have thought that all the cars that this was potentially going to happen to would have happened already? I.e. would you be safe enough buying a 20d from that era now?

homik

Big Nasty wrote: »

I would have thought that all the cars that this was potentially going to happen to would have happened already? I.e. would you be safe enough buying a 20d from that era now?

People suing could have had the engines wrecked years ago. It takes time before cases are heard in court.

Cee-Jay-Cee

Haven't BMW in the UK and elsewhere in Europe owned up to this already? Surely the fact that BMW in other countries have already admitted there is problem with the engine not mean they have little or no case here.

Big Nasty

homik wrote: »

People suing could have had the engines wrecked years ago. It takes time before cases are heard in court.

I know that yeah, sorry. I was more asking about the potential perils of buying a 20d now.

rex-x

Big Nasty wrote: »

I would have thought that all the cars that this was potentially going to happen to would have happened already? I.e. would you be safe enough buying a 20d from that era now?

The problem is there was a manufacturing issue with the crankshaft gear so even repaired cars are going to fail again, wouldn't be rushing out to buy one....

Big Nasty

rex-x wrote: »

The problem is there was a manufacturing issue with the crankshaft gear so even repaired cars are going to fail again, wouldn't be rushing out to buy one....

Yeah, I'll be changing next year and BOLO for a 530d Sport Touring. Not too many of them about though.

166man

Big Nasty wrote: »

Yeah, I'll be changing next year and BOLO for a 530d Sport Touring. Not too many of them about though.

The N57 had the same issues as well, it just sold in such small volumes. From late 2007 right through until 2014 you're at the risk of issues.

I don't know why people buy these cars knowing that theres a very strong chance it will fail once and fail again...

VeVeX

166man wrote: »

The N57 had the same issues as well, it just sold in such small volumes. From late 2007 right through until 2014 you're at the risk of issues.

I don't know why people buy these cars knowing that theres a very strong chance it will fail once and fail again...

You'd have to presume most buyers dont have the foggiest that there is an issue until it bites them in the ass. Car buyers do not research their purchases properly.

Big Nasty

166man wrote: »

The N57 had the same issues as well, it just sold in such small volumes. From late 2007 right through until 2014 you're at the risk of issues.

I don't know why people buy these cars knowing that theres a very strong chance it will fail once and fail again...

Yeah, maybe I should buy an Alfa then! :pac:

166man

VeVeX wrote: »

You'd have to presume most buyers dont have the foggiest that there is an issue until it bites them in the ass. Car buyers do not research their purchases properly.

Valid point.

Big Nasty wrote: »

Yeah, maybe I should buy an Alfa then! :pac:

Nah they wouldn't suit you. They have style and character.

Big Nasty

166man wrote: »

Nah they wouldn't suit you. They have style and character.

Got me there bro!

166man

Big Nasty wrote: »

Got me there bro!

Lol good to have a laugh in here dude!

Guy:Incognito

Is it any different to BXE conrods coming through the case or high rate failures on any other makes at the end of the day? Or is there something about the BMW case thatsets it apart?

Orderofchaos

Anyone have a guesstimate of actual failure rate? Mine is still on original chain with over 330000 km done and still no telltale rattle. New tensioner fitted by BMW during their brief "quality enhancement" about 2 years ago.

Wailin

Orderofchaos wrote: »

Anyone have a guesstimate of actual failure rate? Mine is still on original chain with over 330000 km done and still no telltale rattle. New tensioner fitted by BMW during their brief "quality enhancement" about 2 years ago.

What year is the car? Most prevalent in 08-11 models with N47 engine.

Orderofchaos

Wailin wrote: »

What year is the car? Most prevalent in 08-11 models with N47 engine.

08 520D N47 Manual. Has had a good few other things fail though.

Wailin

Orderofchaos wrote: »

08 520D N47 Manual. Has had a good few other things fail though.

Don't know but you might be lucky. 330000k and still going, if it hasn't gone by now you might be ok.

KFed

The article states they have sought discovery from bmw. This would be a court order to turn over documents, emails, memos, reports etc pertinent to the issue. Im no lawyer but failure to comply would then place them in contempt of court i imagine. Article says the judge is minded to grant discovery so id see that as a positive for the plaintiffs if it comes to pass, especially if bmw opposed it. While it may not show anything you would wonder why oppose something that would vindicate your position?

When you ask about failure rate, you would expect that fact to be at the centre of discovery. Bmw may know the actual and or expected failure rate but obviously they wouldnt be broadcasting it if they did and it proved a fault with the alleged issue.

I guess the legal strategy is to take the strongest cases en masse, where the owners had a failure and were left with substantial repairs. The article states One owner had a chain go in his x5 and incurred repairs of 8,700. Multiply that by 50 cases in the article and thats almost 0.5million in repairs at issue in the case. Add in legal costs and the claims in the pipeline the article refers to also, its not loose change.

And theyre this batch of cases. Id imagine a recall campaign for all 120d, 320d, 520d n 47 engines with a particular build date would be a lot of cars and a lot of cost. Maybe someone investigated the failures, identified a fault and ran the numbers and decided it would be cheaper not to recall affected cars. Maybe no such fault exists and no such analysis occurred. But i guess discovery would shed some light on who knew what and when on the bmw side.

Someone posted above that purchasers dont research car buys. But to be fair, a lot of owners bought these cars new in 2008. A 320d or 520d with the latest and greatest n47 engine wasnt cheap. Bmw is a premium brand. They surely had a reasonable expectation that if it was a chain rather than belt driven engine that the chain would last.

If the chain wasnt specified to be inspected or replaced periodically and the owners kept the car serviced in line with the recommended intervals, the owners are hardly at fault if the underlying fault causing the failure is a design or manufacturing defect.

Its a serious issue though. 8,700 to repair an x5. But that man had a car fail at speed on the motorway. Not sure what he had left in terms of braking and steering. What if he was approaching a bad bend on an n road at 80kph, it let go and he had a head on or other fatal incident. Who knew what and when is surely relevant from a safety perspective. Not sure why theres no e.u. regulator from a safety perspective able to get to the bottom of an alleged issue like this and investigate and have powers to order a recall, impose fines etc.

For v.w. a us or californian environmental regulator broke that emissions scandal. A german manufacturer of diesel engines pulled up by a u.s. regulator primarily concerned with domestic big 3 petrol centric manufacturers.

I dont think the little old consumer is front and centre of any manufacturer or regulator concerns, hence these owners have had to turn to the courts....

Leonard Hofstadter

166man wrote: »

The N57 had the same issues as well, it just sold in such small volumes. From late 2007 right through until 2014 you're at the risk of issues.

I don't know why people buy these cars knowing that theres a very strong chance it will fail once and fail again...

N57s have the same timing chaine and are essentially the same engine as the N47 (just with two extra cylinders) but they don't suffer unless they've been seriously abused or if you completely ignore the service intervals (as in go say 30,000-40,000 miles without changing the oil in them).

The oil capacity in them is 9 litres whereas the N47s only take 5.2 litres so they can even handle BMW's stupidly long variable service intervals.

Also, the N57 is a straight six so is much smoother running than the four cylinder N47 and therefore the timing chain has a much easier life.

N57s are fine to buy used. I wouldn't touch an N47 if you paid me though unless I knew the timing chain had been done fairly recently in it.

JohnBoy26

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

Is it any different to BXE conrods coming through the case or high rate failures on any other makes at the end of the day? Or is there something about the BMW case thatsets it apart?

The bxe issue is easily preventable. The timing chain issue on the bmws unfortunately is not, mainly because there is no easy access to the chain.

KNS

Sorry for the hijack! In the market for an estate so BMW touring is on the list. So what you’re saying is anything up to 2014 (diesel) has the potential for this failure?

KFed

I think the n47 engine in 2007+2008 was most affected. They changed something then but i believe there have still been failurea on more recent years.

In 2014 a new engine, b47 variant, was introduced and i believe it is a new design and does not have the problem at all. However, that wohkd be a 2014 build date so if buying a 2014plate car yoh wohkd need tk check if it has an n47 or b47 engine...

Someone can tell you where to find that. Not sure if part of the vin or elsewhere but i wouldnt be taking a dealers word for it.

Afaik, b47 has a higher power output also, 190 v 184 on the n47.

nogoodnamesleft

KFed wrote: »

I think the n47 engine in 2007+2008 was most affected. They changed something then but i believe there have still been failurea on more recent years.

In 2014 a new engine, b47 variant, was introduced and i believe it is a new design and does not have the problem at all. However, that wohkd be a 2014 build date so if buying a 2014plate car yoh wohkd need tk check if it has an n47 or b47 engine...

Someone can tell you where to find that. Not sure if part of the vin or elsewhere but i wouldnt be taking a dealers word for it.

Afaik, b47 has a higher power output also, 190 v 184 on the n47.

The B47 engine was introduced in Sept 2014 and AFAIK is used in the current 1 series, 3 series etc. There is speculation that the timing chain issues may not have been totally resolve according to when BMW said it was in March 2011.

t=105799https://www.honestjohn.co.uk/forum/post/index.htm?t=105799

Easiest way to tell the difference between the B47 and N47 engine is by looking at the engine cover.


B47



N47

When I was researching for when I bought my current 520d I made sure I got the B47 variant. I still think the 20k miles service interval is crazy long and I will be reverting to getting the spanners out for 10k mile oil and filter changes when the BMW service plan expires. Dont get me started on why the thought in their infinite wisdom to remove the dipstick instead you have to use iDrive to determine the oil level :rolleyes:.