Decision to make re. mother in law

LegacyUser

Hi everyone,
I posted here over a year ago about the problems I was experiencing with my mother-in-law who had been verbally and emotionally abusive to me over a long period of time (about 2 years). It was a sustained campaign of attacks on me and it took its toll, mentally and health-wise. She finally laid off less than a year ago out of nowhere and has been contacting my husband less than she had been.

I mentioned then the vulnerable state of her daughter who had/has an eating disorder and in the last 6 months or so this situation has escalated and she has been in and out of rehab. It is so desperately sad. She is a beautiful person but is not (I think) divulging the cause of her being in this situation - she and her sister are both on good terms with me now as they both came forth and apologised for alienating me and for listening to their mother about me.
I have kind of forgiven them both (I told them I had) but I let it all out in a phone call to the older (stronger sister) and she said she believed her mother had been abusive to me and was truly sorry that it happened.

Now, though, with their sister being in a really bad way for such a long time, the mother is apparently suffering. I dont know tbh. But she told my husband that she wants to make peace with me and has invited us both on an expensive holiday with her and the older sister. The younger one does not want to go and I definitely can't see her going.

The crucial thing is that the younger sister is angry with her mother, not because of me, but she seems to be blaming her for why she is traumatised, though she hasn't revealed what she might have done.

Am I right in thinking that the mother in law is using me to show that she is a better person or something in a bid to help her daughter, because nothing else has worked (including showering her with money and expensive gifts?). I of course do not want to go but am wondering about her motives. My husband understands if I dont go, and also, crucially, I dont want to do anything that would upset this younger daughter who I just want to help and see get better.

Neyite

Don't get sucked in. You'd be used as a flying monkey and it's the MIL's way of using you to send a baited message to your SIL's. Narcissists often make grand gestures or foist expensive gifts on their targets. This trip will come with a cost to you or the adult children involved.

Your husband understands if you don't want to go, so it's not like he's making you or going to be disappointed if you turn the 'gift' down. It sounds like they are all starting to get the measure of their mother, and you should probably defer to their experience.

If I were you and your husband, I'd be 'busy' and keep the contact superficial for your own piece of mind.

Emme

littlemisstestify wrote: »

Now, though, with their sister being in a really bad way for such a long time, the mother is apparently suffering. I dont know tbh. But she told my husband that she wants to make peace with me and has invited us both on an expensive holiday with her and the older sister. The younger one does not want to go and I definitely can't see her going.

Don't go on the holiday. This is a classic narcissistic tactic. Make an excuse that you have to see your own family, you're up to your tonsils at work, anything but don't go on that holiday. Is the mother-in-law paying? If so she's trying to buy your support. Regardless of whether you go or not she will probably abuse you again at some stage in the future.

littlemisstestify wrote: »

Am I right in thinking that the mother in law is using me to show that she is a better person or something in a bid to help her daughter, because nothing else has worked (including showering her with money and expensive gifts?). I of course do not want to go but am wondering about her motives. My husband understands if I dont go, and also, crucially, I dont want to do anything that would upset this younger daughter who I just want to help and see get better.

The mother-in-law is definitely using you but it is questionable whether she is a better person or not. Gifts from narcissists ALWAYS come with strings attached. ALWAYS. Don't go on that holiday.

I feel sorry for the younger daughter. The only thing that would help her is to get away from her mother completely.

Aspadeaspade

No way. Don't fall for this OP. Typical narcissist behaviour and you already sense it's with another motive in mind. As soon as you mentioned the mother and the youngest daughter's issue, I knew straight away the mother was most likely the number 1 cause of it. As unfortunate as the younger sister's plight is OP, she does have her own sister to help her as she seems to be also coming to terms with the mother being a toxic figure in their lives. By accepting her offer you'd basically be sending her a message that she can entice you and therefore continue to manipulate you and pull strings.. To familiarise yourself further with these type of mothers there is endless sources on the internet that can help you understand what makes these poor unfortunate souls tick. Focus instead on your own family and marriage OP, people like her can do endless damage unless you take their power away from them.. the can be disarmed by simply not reacting to their behaviour, either good or bad. Good luck!

Emme

Here's a link that might help the daughter:

http://www.willieverbegoodenough.com/

LegacyUser

Thanks everyone - I absolutely forgot a crucial thing to add in my post. I was only considering going if by seeing me forgive her mother, the younger daughter might be able to heal somewhat, but I can see now that it would not help, and if anything would make me look like a traitor and a fool. I am most definitely not going (this had been the only reason I had a doubt about it) and I have loads of excuses to give as she wanted to do this around the new year and so there is lots on and relaxing needed as well, not a "holiday".
Luckily enough my husband is seeing through it as well and we are not talking about it but the understanding is that its not happening
I may write an email to the older sister explaining that it isn't personal against her, just that it went too far with the mother, and no road back... or am I better off leaving it to my husband to explain it all?

Again, thanks to all you people who have such good sense. Wish I had been born with more of it.

zoobizoo

Suggest that she uses the money for therapy for the daughter with the eating disorder.

Sardonicat

Don't go into the whys and wherefores for not going. Stick to being " too busy, inconvenient time, yadah yadah. .."
While it's great that you are getting along with the sisters and the older one has apologised, it might be better to keep things at a polite arms length until you can establish how genuine they are being. There's rarely just one toxic family member. The level of toxicity displayed by your MIL requires a complex family dynamic to maintain it. Be very careful with both of your SILs until you are absolutely certain they are finally emerging from the poisonous Web spun by their mother and not just trying to suck you back into their dysfunctional family dance.
Protect yourself and keep strong boundaries.

Big Bag of Chips

Your sister-in-law's issues are a lot more complicated than you seem to realise. If it could simply be cured by everyone "hugging it out" then it would be easily sorted. Your mother-in-law has always been a difficult woman. You only know her a few years, and she didn't turn from a perfectly reasonable, welcoming and loving woman into an absolute dangerous and nasty weapon over night on your arrival.

Her own family have had a lifetime of dealing with her nastiness and manipulation. A holiday isn't going to cure anything. Especially not one where the mother is in complete control having funded it in it's entirety.

You don't have to be friends with any of these people. They are in your life by pure chance. If you weren't married to your husband you certainly would not have any of these people in your social circle. So stop forcing it. You can be a polite and civil acquaintance without the need to all be bezzies and ringing and texting each other. You've made your peace with them all, it would seem. So now just back off and be polite when you see them.

The medical professionals will know an awful lot more than you think about your sister-in-law and her family dynamics. It's their job to listen to people and read between the lines.

Ursus Horribilis

I think the least you have to do with this situation, the better. Family dynamics can be pretty odd - blood being thicker than water and all of that. Even by sending an email to the older sister, you're running the risk of getting pulled back into the drama. Being polite but keeping your distance is the way to go here .

WIZWEB

Narcissists are fairly predicatable. They work off a schema of love-bombing, devaluing and eventual discard. A cycle beginning at any of the three stages but always following that route in order. Most common though the first experience is love-bombing to butter up the future victim. You're currently in the 'love-bombing' stage since your previous discard after devaluing you. This because the Narc MIL currently perceives you as having high emotional 'fuel' value. Narcs thrive on this unhealthy drama filled attachment. This as long as it's packed with emotions. It's about garnering maximum ATTENTION. You've already proved yourself as a potent source of Narcissistic supply! They thrive on ATTENTION and seek out whoever will supply it best to them. Empaths first in line which you've shown you are with your consideration for her daughters needs. Interestingly Narcs lack empathy themselves. Whether your ATTENTION is negative or positive doesn't matter as long as they get it in abundance. Like Dracula these emotional vampires always come back for another feed until they either control or destroy you.

Her ill daughter offers poor fuel value now while in recovery concentrating on herself. So mammy needs new easy accessible functional sources. It's probably no coincidence that while you got a break (being discarded is a holiday!) from this drama during that time the daughter was most likely being victimized into her current predicament. No Contact (cuts off all ATTENTION fuel) is the best solution for dealing with Narcs. However in family circumstances like this a technique called 'grey-rock' (minimum contact like birthdays, Xmas etc) can be utilised for self protection. Google any terms I use here that you are unfamiliar with for further clarification.

Others can be used as 'flying-monkeys' by the Narc to bring you under control through triangulation. Your partners siblings previous distancing may also have been dictated by the Matri-Narc. Remember they've been trained to conform to meeting her emotional needs since birth. Curious, how does your husband position in all this? His thoughts and feelings specifically around his mother and her actions should be revealing. Also how he acts in her presence. Was/is his father compliant (enabling) to meet The Narcs needs or did/does he portray Narcissistic traits? Unfortunately the Hydra (Narc) often has many heads attached to support its dysfunctional worldview.

OP to be a child of a narcissist is often an extremely emotionally traumatic situation whatever their age. Similar outcome for partners, extended family and close friends. This experience is maintained as long as there remains contact with this abuser. It's a spectrum so the damage done will be relative to how Narcissistic their abuser is combined with how long their influence.

Unless chosen as a golden child (some develop into Narcs) the toxic parenting of the victim/s will often create dysfunctional identities. Usually scapegoats (enablers) or sometimes even narcissists. Commonly a selection of either among sibling groups. Unless addressed victims will conform to these roles for life. You'll probably notice these traits among certain family members. However there is little psychiatric evidence in support of narcissists ever reforming. Fortunately some of their children are highly resilient. Survivors can recover through No Contact and therapy if necessitated. Remember the Narc sees these/you/everyone as possessions to utilize or discard at will.

The damage to their children is inflicted when they are most vulnerable during their early developmental years. Such vile lived emotional and psychological experiences cause personal internal destruction for many. If the MIL's daughter is blaming her for her self destructiveness then I would believe her in this case. She will have access to psychotherapy which might validate this belief. One of the key psychological tenets of eating disorders is a way to enact some personal control. You can bet that as a scapegoat to her mother she was never allowed personal autonomy in her early years. Perhaps even now if in close contact. It's great that she is expressing some empowerment by refusing to 'holiday' with her mother. She must enact her own recovery with the assistance of professionals of course. Perhaps you could guide her to read up on Narcissistic Personality Disorder (NPD) and if this resonates she could discuss it further in therapy. Something to read up on yourself to maintain your own self preservation when dealing with the MIL.

Emme

WIZWEB wrote: »

OP to be a child of a narcissist is often an extremely emotionally traumatic situation whatever their age. Similar outcome for partners, extended family and close friends. This experience is maintained as long as there remains contact with this abuser. It's a spectrum so the damage done will be relative to how Narcissistic their abuser is combined with how long their influence.

The whole post shows an excellent understanding of the narcissists and the narcissistic family. The exerpt above is a good insight on the younger sister's plight. She is obviously very traumatised. Did you grow up with narcissists WIZWEB? I would be very surprised if you didn't. I did and am still trying to deal with narcissists in the immediate and extended family. I too had an eating disorder when I was younger. Going away or going no contact was not an option for me due to other family members ongoing illnesses caused by constantly dealing with the narcissist. Many people with narcissistic families or spouses develop autoimmune illnesses such as Hashimotos, Lupus and Fibromyalgia.

I agree that the OP should have as little contact with the MIL as possible and keep her dealings with the rest of the family cordial but don't get involved with anything where possible. However she should help the younger sister if asked. That girl needs all the support she can get and should ideally get as far away from the family as possible.

Ghekko

Ursus Horribilis wrote: »

I think the least you have to do with this situation, the better. Family dynamics can be pretty odd - blood being thicker than water and all of that. Even by sending an email to the older sister, you're running the risk of getting pulled back into the drama. Being polite but keeping your distance is the way to go here .

Great advice. Do not say you are too busy for the holiday or that it's not good timing as that gives the impression you may be up for it at another date. Just let your Dh say a simple no - no explanation needed. The younger sister needs to want to get help, it's up to her to disclose her issues to a therapist, and I'd say the best therapy would be for her to distance herself from her mother as you and your Dh have done.

WIZWEB

Emme wrote: »

The whole post shows an excellent understanding of the narcissists and the narcissistic family. The exerpt above is a good insight on the younger sister's plight. She is obviously very traumatised. Did you grow up with narcissists WIZWEB? I would be very surprised if you didn't. I did and am still trying to deal with narcissists in the immediate and extended family....

Thank you Emme. Well done on achieving awareness and hopefully escape. You've encouraged me to put together another long response. Might be useful to the OP and other survivors if I don't put them in a coma first ha....

I get what you're saying Emme about the OP being there for the narcissists daughter. It's certainly great to have support when validating and recovering from this insanity. Especially considering the publics general unawareness or lack of interest unless narcissism directly affects them. However I fear that the OP will be dragged further into this drama unless very careful. As an adult the daughter must proactively initiate full No Contact for any real chance of personal recovery. No exceptions and no excuses. Later after recovery minimum contact can occur if it suits. I would be very supportive of this theme but if she's living with the mother with no intention of leaving or maintaining regular contact my support will be measured. Self-care first and always.

I've certainly had my dealings with toxic narcissists both personally and professionally over the years. My most recent experience was a four year relationship with a particularly malignant overt somatic one. Although of course never diagnosed. The vast majority never will be as they see themselves as perfect while we, their victims end up in therapy. He vehemently embraced all nine criteria of the psychiatric DSM manual for formulating an evaluation. A strong adherence to only five of these is enough for therapists to give such a label.

As you'll understand it was one huge emotional rollarcoaster ride! Though the icing on the cake is that just as the last devaluing stage predictibly began I initiatated MY planned final discard. I took back my power from this control freak. We can only imagine the blind fury and rage he now has towards me. Abandonement being their biggest fear. Though it took me two years of educating myself on Narcissistic Personality Disorder and working on myself to reach this level of personal empowerment. As well as the literature there are some great YouTube videos for survivors. One channel has nearly half a million subscribers so I feel we're dealing with a epidemic.

Unfortunately I had to teach my counsellor about this disorder but it was good to vent over a few sessions! However outside the opportunity to educate (rant) here I no longer allow my ex or narcissists in general to occupy much headspace. Ignorance towards them really is bliss. All avenues of communication have been blocked (by me) and I've maintained complete No Contact for almost four months now. They try to come back of course even months or years later when their replacement emotional fuel lines (current victims) dry up. However their always predictable behaviour has me prepared for the next 'love-bombing' stage. I was amazing Narcissistic Supply so I won't be allowed escape so easy! A codependent empathic people pleasing enabler always putting the needs of others before my own. He found the holy grail for a while until I stuck a stake in his heart!

I wouldn't categorize my parents as having this disorder. I certainly did question that possibility for a while. However dysfunctional parental caregiving combined with them not challenging long-term emotional, psychological and physical abuse from an older sibling set me up to be a future victim. It gave me a template for normalising and being attracted to Narcissistic behaviors. In fairness my parents are victims of their own upbringing. Even malignant narcissists are. A couple of siblings would have above average Narcissistic traits. Not at the level where it would be catergorised as a disorder. There's also an enabler sister in a relationship with a Parasitic narcissist type. I love holding him to account with my awareness! Hopefully my sister will eventually cop on to his pathetic manipulations and leave.

Actually during summer I was given the 'opportunity' to end a twenty year friendship with a covert narcissist. He discarded me He had gotten very insecure about my newfound self-esteem and personal boundary building. Real recovery is having these people out of your life while meeting your own needs.

If you've made it this far you'll understand that I'm no longer a victim but a survivor. Albeit one who needs to write shorter opinions

LegacyUser

WIZWEB wrote: »

<Snip>

Thank you! I read all of your posts but will have to parse them again for it all to sink in even more. My husband pandered to her for a long time and it took her abuse of me for a long, long time for him to see more of that side of her. We rarely talk about her and he rarely calls him or him, her. They still do have a good relationship though she essentially cuts him off regularly mostly in the past by using me, but then 12 months ago I revved up a gear, to help my husband in his life as he was damaged from it (long story but comes back to her and her parenting), and his life and mine have been transformed. His sisters can't believe the progress we made and hence the mother now has nothing to bitch about me for - she would just reveal herself to be ridiculous. This is partially why the sisters came to my side but also because they love their brother and believed me. At the same time I don't have too much contact with them, and taking yours and everyones advice here, I will keep them at a distance.

I am a seriously empathetic person and I have to shake some of that off to be tougher on the exterior without coming across as cold or distant. I don't have outwardly charm and relied on my natural niceness to carry me in relationships with people, but I have to disguise that niceness while keeping content, and be tougher but charming on the outside. That is what I will work on next year.

I can't help his younger sister really - she is already looking to have her own place away from her mother while at the same time going to rehab and working part-time- so she has been incredibly brave and the only way to help her is to reinforce her confidence and be there when she asks to talk to me. Every time she speaks to my husband she always asks for me, so I think she is registering the abuse I got from her mother with her own, and I think it just might have helped her finally confront her unhappiness. She has been suicidial though and so we are worried right now. My husband is really helping her though with good humour and checking she is ok, but the main concern I have, is that nobody is asking her what happened to her, why she is so down -- maybe they are too afraid to ask that question, but I only hope she can be open with medical professionals.

Big Bag of Chips

littlemisstestify wrote: »

the main concern I have, is that nobody is asking her what happened to her, why she is so down -- maybe they are too afraid to ask that question, but I only hope she can be open with medical professionals.

I think that's a question she needs to tease out with the medical professionals. And I can guarantee if she is seeing any sort of therapist this will be the main focus. I don't think it's up to her siblings, or you, to ask that question. You know her mother. She has treated you all appallingly. So you all have a rough idea of how she was treated. People will all react differently to similar situations. This sister-in-law responded to her mother by trying to assert her own control over something. Your husband is doing right by checking in with her and letting her know he is there if/when she needs to talk. But asking those types of questions and counselling her through the answers is outside of his, or your remit.

Your sister-in-law has very complex and deep-rooted problems. And however well meaning, untrained advice or counselling might only cause her further upset.

I hope you do take a very big step back from it all. You're still talking about "sides". There should be no side. You should continue to live your life in a way that suits you, and let others live their's. You need to care less about what these people think of you. In the grand scheme of things, they are not important in your life. You can live quite peacefully and happily without ever seeing or speaking to any of them ever again. I get on with my in-laws, but we're not friends. Months could go by without any contact with them. And if they were all to suddenly disappear from my life they wouldn't leave a hole!

Live your life for you. Let others do what they like.

LegacyUser

Thank you for this reply and advice also. I will absolutely take this on board and keep my distance except be a friend to the younger sister when she asks to speak to me when she calls, and will not interfere because as you said this is for professionals to deal with as it is utterly not something I can at all help with, however much I may want to.
I love your last advice about how I don't actually need them in my life at all, and you are sooo completely right here! thank you, I will keep this in mind all the time and it will help whenever I am tempted to worry about them!