Private sector to public

yop

Folks
Have a predicament.

Local job in the public sector has come up. Its in the same area where I have worked for 22 years.
Work in a senior level, good salary, health cover paid for, pension of 5% from company. Have to commute 3 days per week, takes 2.5 hour (170km) roundtrip.
Work 2 days from home. Some weeks I have to go up more.
Been travelling to work now for 7 years on this road.
Cost of travel on those 3 days is circa 50-60 euro on fuel.
Days on the road are generally leaving the hour around 6am, arriving back around 7-7.30 pm

Two small kids in school.

New role is more junior, salary is 28k less per year.
It will have the public pension, which I can't figure out.
What else it offers I can't understand either.
From looking at the pay grades in the role the closes I can get to is around 15k less than what I am on now after 6 years.


Can I afford to do with the monitory loss, well its the cost of the mortgage every month AFTER i deduct the money I am saving on fuel.
Time wise yes I will certainly save 5-7 hours per week on travel, that is a day in essence.

I'm trying to see if anyone can find some reason why I should take the role, I'm struggling to find it tbh or that there maybe something I'm missing

Many thanks

gerrybbadd

yop wrote: »

Folks
Have a predicament.

Local job in the public sector has come up. Its in the same area where I have worked for 22 years.
Work in a senior level, good salary, health cover paid for, pension of 5% from company. Have to commute 3 days per week, takes 2.5 hour (170km) roundtrip.
Work 2 days from home. Some weeks I have to go up more.
Been travelling to work now for 7 years on this road.
Cost of travel on those 3 days is circa 50-60 euro on fuel.
Days on the road are generally leaving the hour around 6am, arriving back around 7-7.30 pm

Two small kids in school.

New role is more junior, salary is 28k less per year.
It will have the public pension, which I can't figure out.
What else it offers I can't understand either.
From looking at the pay grades in the role the closes I can get to is around 15k less than what I am on now after 6 years.


Can I afford to do with the monitory loss, well its the cost of the mortgage every month AFTER i deduct the money I am saving on fuel.
Time wise yes I will certainly save 5-7 hours per week on travel, that is a day in essence.

I'm trying to see if anyone can find some reason why I should take the role, I'm struggling to find it tbh or that there maybe something I'm missing

Many thanks

While you may save a day on travel, you are working from home 2 days a week. Depending on the Dept you are looking at in the Public Service, there may be promotional opportunities.

However, it seems that your current position is far superior. The public service pension in reality is not great for new entrants. It would be supplemented with the Dept of Social Protection Old Age pension.

Also, no health care in the public service. So you'd be down a fair whack in salary, and if you wanted to continue health care cover, down even more.

fits

Why is this a conundrum for you? What’s the difference in take home pay. You can use a calculator for the difference.

Not sure re public sector pension. They are usually years worked / 80 by either average or final take home pay. Defined benefit which is generous.

Dr. Kenneth Noisewater

The pension entitlements, while better than private sector, for new entrants aren't as gilt edged as you'd be led to believe. And as you can see, the pay isn't anything like what you're used to.

You'll lose the health insurance, but possibly gain flexi time depending on where you're getting the job.

Personally, I think it sounds like you have too much to lose, unless the money means less to you than the extra time you'll have for work/life balance.

ThunbergsAreGo

What are the differences in holidays?

Does the Public Sector have flexi?

treade1

You need to also factor in the pension levy deduction which can be more than 10% for middle income earners. Eg. a public servant earning €50000 has a gross income of €45000 after the pension levy is deducted.
New entrants to the public service will have to work until they are 70 and are subjected to the career average pension as opposed to the final salary pension of pre 2013 entrants.
A public servant in the higher tax bracket, has deductions totaling 58% on their income taxed at the higher rate, when superannuation, pension levy, PRSI, USC and PAYE are all deducted.
You probably should stay where you are considering you will probably get nowhere near the 40 years service required to get a full pension but will suffer all the deductions regardless. It isn't possible to opt out.

Riskymove

fits wrote: »

Not sure re public sector pension. They are usually years worked / 80 by either average or final take home pay. Defined benefit which is generous.

not anymore

You'd be on the new single pension scheme

What age are you
What, if any, pension plan are you paying into and does your employer contribute
Would you fancy yourself to progress?
If you could give an idea of the grade/salary points it would be helpful but understand if not
Flexi days equal an extra 1.5 days a month off, remember

Do you enjoy your current role and what chance of good progression, are family friendly policies like short working year attractive to you and not possible where you are, etc

Riskymove

Riskymove wrote: »

not anymore

You'd be on the new single pension scheme

The pension scheme is still defined benefit and generous

Just not worked out on final salary, rather average salary. That's why the poster's age and the level at which they are entering are significant here.

If you go in at a decent salary with a good shot of hitting 30 years or more then it's a good pension still- not cheap including levies etc but still not a shabby effort.

Gumbo

28k drop in salary will be similar to a 40 drop in salary to your current set up.
Pension deduction, then the levy.
Pension will be similar to current set up as public servants pensions are reduced by the OAP anount.

treade1

treade1 wrote: »

You need to also factor in the pension levy deduction which can be more than 10% for middle income earners. Eg. a public servant earning €50000 has a gross income of €45000 after the pension levy is deducted.
New entrants to the public service will have to work until they are 70

It's nowhere near 10% gross for total pension deduction at the 50k mark tbh. Closer to 7% depending on other deductions

And you don't have to work til you're seventy. That's the upper age not the lower.

draiochtanois

This post has been deleted.

ANXIOUS

draiochtanois wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

I'm faced with something something constantly not with private v public, just lower level move outside of a major city.

It's constantly been to stay in the major city, because I felt if I took another job I'd be resigning myself to the fact my career has peaked. I'm not somebody who loves work, but I do get great satisfaction out of being paid well, understanding my area to be considered an expert and promotions.

It's a constant battle with spending more time at home but I think with your work from home set up and as your kids get older it'll become less of a burden but it may be too late at that stage to switch back.

One point relevant to the op, be prepared to shut off your initiative if you go public. Based on 6/7 friends there it's not looked for or welcomed.

Ragnar Lothbrok

"Public Service" has a HUGE variety of work, so unless you can be more specific about the job you are thinking of taking, it's quite difficult to advise you.

I've been a civil servant, in both the UK and here in Ireland, for most of my working life and have done a fairly wide variety of jobs in different Govt Depts. In general I've enjoyed them all, but there can be a massive difference in workloads, stress, abuse, etc depending on which Dept you are based in.

My children are grown up now, but when they were younger, I have been in situations where I've been extremely grateful for the flexi time, special leave arrangements etc that Govt Depts can offer. As you have young children, this is a serious consideration to take into account.

I've still got about 15 years until I can retire, and to be honest, the pension isn't my main concern - the (virtual) fact that I will never have to face redundancy is very reassuring, as I still have a mortgage to pay. You're far more likely to face redundancy in a private industry job.

I have worked for a couple of years in private industry when I first moved to Ireland almost 30 years ago, and I can say without shadow of a doubt that I have much preferred my time in the civil service.

You're facing a frighteningly big drop in salary, but then again you say you can afford it, and there will probably be plenty of opportunities for you to gain promotion. You'll also be virtually guaranteed a yearly increment (not worth much, but it all adds up) along with the re-introduction of salary increases that have now been agreed to for the next couple of years (again, little increases, but better than nothing).

So, in general, taking into account your desire to have more time at home and less travel, coupled with the fact that you seem to be OK with the salary drop, I'd recommend taking the new job, with a massive BUT - it depends on which area of the Public Service you're going for.

Good Luck!

gerrybbadd

[Deleted User] wrote: »

What age are you
What, if any, pension plan are you paying into and does your employer contribute
Would you fancy yourself to progress?
If you could give an idea of the grade/salary points it would be helpful but understand if not
Flexi days equal an extra 1.5 days a month off, remember

Do you enjoy your current role and what chance of good progression, are family friendly policies like short working year attractive to you and not possible where you are, etc

Let's not forget that the flexi days @1.5 have to be worked the month before. They aren't just given for free. So it means you work an extra 11 hrs and something mins over the course of the prior month

juncert

treade1 wrote: »

You need to also factor in the pension levy deduction which can be more than 10% for middle income earners. Eg. a public servant earning €50000 has a gross income of €45000 after the pension levy is deducted.
New entrants to the public service will have to work until they are 70 and are subjected to the career average pension as opposed to the final salary pension of pre 2013 entrants.
A public servant in the higher tax bracket, has deductions totaling 58% on their income taxed at the higher rate, when superannuation, pension levy, PRSI, USC and PAYE are all deducted.
You probably should stay where you are considering you will probably get nowhere near the 40 years service required to get a full pension but will suffer all the deductions regardless. It isn't possible to opt out.

You don't have to work until your 70 the recent change means you can if you want to, work until 70. You can retire at old age pension year set by state depending on when you were born eg 67,68 same as private sector.

yop

All,
Thanks for the feedback, there are two mindsets there that I am flip flopping from on a daily basis!

Currently I'm a project manager with 22 yrs IT experience, over a team of 26 but dealing with work for about 250. Its a senior role.
Company pay 5% and I pay 3%.

Holidays currently 23, I THINK its the same. I can buy days in the company if needed. Work day isn't 9-5 but that comes with the role.
After the cost of fuel taken out its a drop of around 1100 euro per month.
The role is again in IT but its junior.
The ONLY hope I have is that I can get in and move to another role/department and a more senior role with the experience I have. But then again I'm not sure if that even counts?

Appreciate all the advice .

Don't move on the assumption you'll be able to switch roles, duties or location quickly. It can come up that way but if I'm honest you'd best prepare for two years minimum served in the role offered.

At that stage, internal and interdepartmental roles offer decent avenues for promotion or variety.

To the poster whose six or seven mates told them that initiative wasn't wanted, I'd say that it is both wanted and needed but people that join thinking they will change the realities of the public service can be the greatest pain in the hoop for everyone around them.

If you commit in the long term, that first two years learning the ropes, the environment and culture etc will stand you to good stead, I'd just advise against going in with either of the above attitudes.

StupidLikeAFox

yop wrote: »

Currently I'm a project manager with 22 yrs IT experience, over a team of 26 but dealing with work for about 250.

That's pretty impressive. Surely there is an Option C or Option D here?

yop

StupidLikeAFox wrote: »

That's pretty impressive. Surely there is an Option C or Option D here?

Options are here unfortunately where I live, I spent 2 years building my house and then 10 more fininishing off around the site etc, so a move out of here isn't going to happen with all families around us.

Might just have to sit tight and see what happens. I can't go back to the 3 days I was commuting to Dublin, heading for mind 40's and thats not a way to live.

Other option I am looking at is going back to working remotely with occasional site visits, I've worked now for 3 companies doing it that way, mainly as a developer but thats ok if it offers a good package.

Or just win the Lotto

beauf

Sounds like you simply want a change of routine from the rat race.

Making such a huge drop in salary and seniority, which you might not get back for a very long time seems a backward step.
If I was you I'd try to move in the private sector, or change your current work/life balance. Maybe stay over one night. Try a 4 day week for a while, take parental leave.
you are giving up too much for what you are getting in return.

You don't seem to have any reason to need the stability of the PS.

TaurenDruid

yop wrote: »

The role is again in IT but its junior.
The ONLY hope I have is that I can get in and move to another role/department and a more senior role with the experience I have. But then again I'm not sure if that even counts?

Appreciate all the advice .

Do not base your decision on your experience and ability being a factor in being able to move to another role/department. It doesn't count. Right now, there's a small-to-medium public service body advertising a Head of ICT role. You need a degree, relevant experience at an appropriate level, etc... and it's a HEO level role, entry on the first point of the scale. ("We want an experienced person. Who will work really cheaply." One of these things is not like the other...)

JoeyJJ

yop wrote: »

All,
Thanks for the feedback, there are two mindsets there that I am flip flopping from on a daily basis!

Currently I'm a project manager with 22 yrs IT experience, over a team of 26 but dealing with work for about 250. Its a senior role.
Company pay 5% and I pay 3%.

Holidays currently 23, I THINK its the same. I can buy days in the company if needed. Work day isn't 9-5 but that comes with the role.
After the cost of fuel taken out its a drop of around 1100 euro per month.
The role is again in IT but its junior.
The ONLY hope I have is that I can get in and move to another role/department and a more senior role with the experience I have. But then again I'm not sure if that even counts?

Appreciate all the advice .

Aside from money, do you think you will enjoy the public sector project management? I work in IT PM too and work for a small enough company I hear lots of people even moving to big organisations in private sector getting straddled with Bureaucracy, would public sector be the same ? The pace would be different also I would imagine. More than money are you happy to move to this environment. Not saying its worse for alot it is more suitable however could be a big change.

beauf

JoeyJJ wrote: »

....
Aside from money, do you think you will enjoy the public sector project management? I work in IT PM too and work for a small enough company I hear lots of people even moving to big organisations in private sector getting straddled with Bureaucracy, would public sector be the same ?...

Private sector is trying to get 4 people to pick the same movie to go see. Public sector is like trying to do the same with 20. At least 5 of whom have no intention going to the cinema, but just want to argue about it, but you can't not ask them.

TaurenDruid

beauf wrote: »

Private sector is trying to get 4 people to pick the same movie to go see. Public sector is like trying to do the same with 20. At least 5 of whom have no intention going to the cinema, but just want to argue about it, but you can't not ask them.

Which (going off-topic) is suggesting that somehow the private sector is more efficient than the public sector? Cos no, it isn't. Certainly that's not the experience of friends working in IT in the private sector, or my experience in dealing with both the public and private sector, where there's every bit as much bureaucracy, politics and inefficiency as the public - just with bonuses and the threat of redundancy (so, swings and roundabouts).

beauf

I'm saying nothing about efficiency. Just that there are usually far more stake holders and committees on IT Projects than in the Private sector. The private sector less complex in that regard. That a committee might be more efficient, than a dis-organised single entity or the reverse is a whole different argument. One facet of might be union engagement.Also the perspective of someone working somewhere for 20~40yrs can be entirely different to someone who is used to moving every 2yrs.

I'm just saying it can be quite different culture and environment. But it depends on the personalities of the people you end up working with, regardless of sector.

JoeyJJ

Yeah and I would echo that there are people robbing a living in lazy private sector corporations, its baffling how lazy and no confrontational managers in private sector can be leaving people who don't have the skills to do a good job to do **** all. I know a good few in public sector non management who are very diligent hard workers.

testaccount123

Why not just get another role in the private sector? There is plenty of work out there with remote working options.

gazzer

Where in the country will this public sector role be? Just be warned that trying to move up the ladder can be difficult depending on where you are based. For instance I am on an internal panel for the last 14 months and am next in line for a promotion on that panel. Only 4 months of the panel left. However if I was in Dublin I would have had the promotion by now. So it is something to consider.