amyg1982's Buying a Leaf

amyg1982

Hi All

Hope I am posting in the appropriate place.

Looking to buy a leaf.

Have 10000euro to spend.

Have a 82km round trip daily commute.
Trip Waterford to Cork maybe 3-4 times a year.
Trip Waterford to Dublin 2-3 times a year.

2 adults 3 kids. All booster seats.

I will be charging mostly at home.

My questions are

Which spec should I consider important.

Looks are not important to me. Functionality is.
I would like the car to be as economical as possible.
Charge in public as fast as possible when out on long journeys.
I would love to be able to listen to my phone through the car.
Is there anything else that would make my life better that I should consider.

I am also considering
NI/UK import
Considerations?
Is this worth the extra effort?
Pitfalls to consider?

I am looking at a 142 Visia model, locally, I believe this is lower spec, any advice?

Thanks so much

goz83

Maybe a mod will split this to its own thread

amyg1982 wrote: »

Hi All

Hope I am posting in the appropriate place.

Looking to buy a leaf.

Have 10000euro to spend.

SNIP

Which spec should I consider important.

SNIP

I am looking at a 142 Visia model, locally, I believe this is lower spec, any advice?

Thanks so much

You’re more or less in the right place. With 10k to drop, you can pick up a 14 Acenta in the UK. Avoid anything older, as you risk getting the older battery which is less efficient. Stay away from the visia, as it is really basic.

Try to get the 6.6 OBC which allows you to charge faster at home (with a 32Amp charge point and connection) and at slow chargers dotted around the country. You will be abke to use the Rapid chargers regardless for longer journeys. The UK cars also usually have the granny charger cable included, which is a must have in my opinion. They can cost a couple of hundred euro to buy.

For a home charger, budget up to €800

NIMAN

Yeah Visia is the very basic spec, but if you're not interested in fancy gadgets etc then it might do you.

Probably the main thing you need is a 6.6kw charger on board. This will allow you to charge faster

The Acenta spec will have better infotainment system, sat nav etc.

The Tekna spec has most things, Inc heated steering wheel, heated seats front and back, Bose sound system but don't worry about this, it's not great. Also has a very handy surround camera system that helps with parking.

I basically have same as yourself. 3 kids all in boosters
It's a tight squeeze but manageable. Its easier in the Leaf than my Golf.

I also went to the UK to buy. Much cheaper for me at the time.

EDIT: Goz got reply in before me.

ELM327

Visia doesnt even come with cruise control or - in most cases - navigation.
To be avoided in all costs.

If you're plannning to do <100km a day and charge at home, as above get the 2014+ model leaf (referred to as "gen 1.5" and noticeable by the eco button on the steering wheel and separate Heat and AC buttons") with the 6.6 charger (noticable by checking the dash display for estimate charge completion time. If there's two times shown the car has 6.6, if only one time shown, it doesnt)

cros13

Yeah... I'd agree stay away from Visia.

It lacks the heat pump of the other specs so turning on the cabin heating in the winter uses 2 - 4 times the power. Also many Visia spec Leafs in the UK lack rapid charging.
Both of those are deal breakers that make the car much less useful on a practical level.

amyg1982

Thanks so much everyone.

amyg1982

On another note.
Second cars has just bit the dust also.

So now we need two cars.

Second car is for himself. Want this to be a family car suitable for longer distances on occasion. Weekend trips etc.

Himself works farm relief, so needs to be able to navigate uneven terrain, "something to handle potholes" he tells me.
He also has the kids most of the time and does a lot of short school runs etc.

I want hybrid, ideally and have been looking at the outlander, however see it gets mixed reviews.

Anybody got any suggestions for us???

Want cars to be as economical to run as possible.

Currently spend a bomb on fuel, tax and repairs annually.

cros13

A 2nd hand outlander PHEV from the UK is a good option. A lot of them coming off lease.
Good towing vehicle too. EV range on it is about 35km real world so enough for the short runs which make up the bulk of most people's driving.

Around £13k in the UK for a decent one. If the car was kept charged on a regular basis don't worry about mileage (it's combustion engine wouldn't have run much).

These three are good options:

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201707247674547
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201712051837456
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201711030914353

~€1600 in VRT due on a 50,000 mi example at registration (reduced by €5k due to the VRT credit). So all in including getting it back to Ireland would be under €15k

Good compliment to a Leaf.

amyg1982

Thanks so much Cros13

So is millage irrelevant in PHEV ands EVs????

Is there a how to buy from the UK guide in here?

I'll have to go searching... lol

cros13

Mileage is a lot less relevant provided it's done on electric power. The electric motors are practically zero maintenance and wear very slowly by comparison to a combustion engine.

The issue with some of the PHEVs is that the previous owner may have just got the car for the 0% benefit in kind that was offered on these vehicles from 2013-2016 in the UK, never charged the car and ran it on entirely on petrol.

Probably the only way to tell is to look at the recorded average MPG or L/100km. Provided the stats haven't been reset, If the numbers look very good for an SUV then it's been used properly, if they look bad avoid that car.

Given how long the PHEV has been out I'd also avoid very high mileage but for 2014s anything below 70,000km would be OK.

A few good Leafs too:

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201711281630720
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/classified/advert/201712071878762

No VRT on import for those.

amyg1982

Cros13 thanks again

What would be a good recorded MPG average to consider then would you think?

cros13

amyg1982 wrote: »

Cros13 thanks again

What would be a good recorded MPG average to consider then would you think?

An ideal vehicle would have 99.9mpg displayed (where the meter maxes out). But anything with an average over 50 would tell you that it was charged at least a couple of times since the last reset of the counters.

amyg1982

Ok thats fantastic

Thanks a mill cros13

amyg1982

One last question is there any particular model I should consider in the outlander?

cros13

amyg1982 wrote: »

One last question is there any particular model I should consider in the outlander?

Depends on what you can afford. If you want a good one landed for ~€15k inc VRT you'll be restricted to the GX3h trim.

The GX4h is well worth it if you can swing the extra money. It adds leather seats, reversing camera, mobile app (so if you are taking a walk on a cold winters evening you can remotely set the cabin to pre-heat when you are on the way back), sunroof and sat nav.
Not sure if the 3h has no electric heater, which would mean it needs the combustion engine fired up to heat the cabin. I think the GX3h+ addresses this issue.

goz83

amyg1982 wrote: »

One last question is there any particular model I should consider in the outlander?

Ideally the GX4H model. It has the 360 cameras and leather seats and sat nav and all the bells.

amyg1982

WOW OK thanks a mill. I am doing up the sums like crazy here.

waynegalway

Have a look at my write-up about choosing a LEAF and the questions I asked at the early stages. Hopefully it'll be helpful for you:

https://waynegibbons.wordpress.com/electric-vehicle-qa/

Wayne

Shefwedfan

Might be worth having a chat with Phil at electric autos in kildare, he brings in both Leaf and Outlander, he is a gent and I have bought 2 cars off him this year....excellent guy

Check with him and see what he can offer

ELM327

Second recommendation for Phil as a past customer.

amyg1982

I have heard so much about Phil in electric autos. He seems more expensive then going up north for example. Ill have to consider my options might be worth giving him the business if the difference isn't huge.

Wayne fantastic read thanks a mill. Lays all the info out great.

Shefwedfan

amyg1982 wrote: »

I have heard so much about Phil in electric autos. He seems more expensive then going up north for example. Ill have to consider my options might be worth giving him the business if the difference isn't huge.

Wayne fantastic read thanks a mill. Lays all the info out great.

It's a recommendation, as mentioned I have bought 2 cars this year (eGolf and Leaf).

In regards to cost, not sure about North but he saves you the hassle of flights/accomodation/history checks/time etc when bringing in from UK....

If I took all of the above into consideration, especially time...I just need more time:p...... I don't think I would have got better deals....

unkel

amyg1982 wrote: »

He seems more expensive then going up north for example.

Of course he is. He will need to import the car, incur expenses and it's his business, so he needs to be compensated for his time and added value. You wouldn't work for nothing yourself now, would you?

I've bought a part from Phil myself. Not only did he give it to me for a great price (better than the main UK suppliers of EV parts), but he also provided me with an excellent service. Highly recommended and it is good to support a small Irish business.

waynegalway

amyg1982 wrote: »

I have heard so much about Phil in electric autos. He seems more expensive then going up north for example. Ill have to consider my options might be worth giving him the business if the difference isn't huge.

Wayne fantastic read thanks a mill. Lays all the info out great.

Thanks.

I looked into going to the UK myself to pick up a LEAF, and by the time I factored in flight and ferry, it wan't much cheaper than buying off an importer here. It all depends on how you value your time, and the exchange rate of course!

At the time (about 2 months ago) I spotted a nice 2015 LEAF near Liverpool for £9,500 sterling. Adding in flight, ferry and exchange rate, it would have cost me about €12,500. I then would have had to pay for a charging unit (the UK cars only come with a granny cable, usually) and so I would have been up on around €13,500 all in. To be fair, it had lower mileage than LEAFs over here for about the same price, so it's up to you how you value your time and how important mileage is to you.

goz83

waynegalway wrote: »

Thanks.

I looked into going to the UK myself to pick up a LEAF, and by the time I factored in flight and ferry, it wan't much cheaper than buying off an importer here. It all depends on how you value your time, and the exchange rate of course!

At the time (about 2 months ago) I spotted a nice 2015 LEAF near Liverpool for £9,500 sterling. Adding in flight, ferry and exchange rate, it would have cost me about €12,500. I then would have had to pay for a charging unit (the UK cars only come with a granny cable, usually) and so I would have been up on around €13,500 all in. To be fair, it had lower mileage than LEAFs over here for about the same price, so it's up to you how you value your time and how important mileage is to you.

The UK models usually have both charging cables. But it’s important to make sure.

If you can put in the time then you can save a few quid. Could save a few quid if buying 2 cars, but would have to be well organised and would alsmost certainly require an overnight stay. Buy 1 car in the morning and drive west to the next car. Buy and drive in convoy to ferry. Could even reduce the anxiety; as the outlander can tow the leaf if you were unfortunate enough to run out of power.

unkel

goz83 wrote: »

the outlander can tow the leaf if you were unfortunate enough to run out of power.

Would that be legal with a normal driving license? I used to know the rules when I was a regular on the motors forum, but I forgot them

ELM327

Once the DGVW combined of the outlander and the trailer+leaf didnt exceed 3.5 tonnes then it's fine on a normal licence.

DGVW of the outlander is 2340kg so that leaves 1200kg.
Don't know what a trailer DGVW is but I bet a car trailer probably exceeds 1200kg so you'd probably need a BE license. And they are a lot stricter on that in the UK than here.

unkel

ELM327 wrote: »

so that leaves 1200kg.

That doesn't leaf enough for the Nissan

amyg1982

unkel wrote: »

Of course he is. He will need to import the car, incur expenses and it's his business, so he needs to be compensated for his time and added value. You wouldn't work for nothing yourself now, would you?


I absolutely agree Phil should be paid for his time and expenses.

Thanks everyone. I'll be back in now doubt with questions.

I doubt ill go to UK but might consider heading up north.

goz83

amyg1982 wrote: »

I absolutely agree Phil should be paid for his time and expenses.

Thanks everyone. I'll be back in now doubt with questions.

I doubt ill go to UK but might consider heading up north.

The choice up north will be very limited, but you might get lucky.

The UK might seem daunting, but it's actually a great experience and doesn't require a lot of planning.

You find and pay a car.
get it history checked.
pay a deposit.
Arrange flight and Ferry.
Arrange insurance transfer to new car.
Register for Ecotricity (or other electric provider) and download their APP.
Fly over, collect car and full V5C.
Drive your planned route leaving lots of time for any delays.
When back home, arrange inspection. Pay no VRT on Leaf.

If I were looking at 2 cars, I would collect on the one trip if at all possible. I am envious tbh. :P

granturismo

cros13 wrote: »

A 2nd hand outlander PHEV from the UK is a good option. A lot of them coming off lease.
Good towing vehicle too. .

The max towing capacity is 1500Kg, which is a bit limiting for agricultural use.

amyg1982

Goz83 lol

I SEE ROADTRIP.

I have no funds. Heading into the golden loving hands (credit union).

I have done the maths because I am a budget nerd. And both cars would only cost me an extra 40euro a week over five years, then what I am currently spending on my cars. That's including running cost and purchase.

OK I am going to look into all above. Thanks so much for the step by step. I don't know what most of it means but that's the plan over the crimbo to figure it out.

How do I know I am not buying from a dodgy dealer??

Shefwedfan

amyg1982 wrote: »

Goz83 lol

I SEE ROADTRIP.

I have no funds. Heading into the golden loving hands (credit union).

I have done the maths because I am a budget nerd. And both cars would only cost me an extra 40euro a week over five years, then what I am currently spending on my cars. That's including running cost and purchase.

OK I am going to look into all above. Thanks so much for the step by step. I don't know what most of it means but that's the plan over the crimbo to figure it out.

How do I know I am not buying from a dodgy dealer??

Unless you stick to the larger dealers or main garage suppliers you won't know to be honest. A man in a van can set up as a car dealer in UK. So lots of them around.

You will pay extra for the larger dealers but you get piece of mind.

Also, if it is priced too low and looks a bargain it is probably because it is dodgy.....

ELM327

I'd stick to a EV importer here. There's two good ones, electric autos in Kildare, and eco-cars in westmeath.
You'll pay a premium over importing it yourself but it's a service removing the dodgy dealers in the UK for you and the hassle of importing. Plus they have contacts in the trade and often get EVs cheaper than - or even before they are at all - offered to the public

cros13

And another point is both those lads know how to spot a good PHEV/EV and have checked the battery etc.

TigerTim

ELM327 wrote: »

I'd stick to a EV importer here. There's two good ones, electric autos in Kildare, and eco-cars in westmeath.
You'll pay a premium over importing it yourself but it's a service removing the dodgy dealers in the UK for you and the hassle of importing. Plus they have contacts in the trade and often get EVs cheaper than - or even before they are at all - offered to the public

I'm also looking at the Outlander PHEV. Currently driving a 2.2 C-Crosser with over €1000 morot tax per year (I only can pay per quarter). Only doing mainly local mileage now but need a towcar for the summer months (1500kg capacity will be OK).I spoke to Sean in Eco-Cars yesterday. Found him quite good to discuss my options with on the phone. Not your usual pushy car salesman.

My tuppence worth,

T.

ELM327

True.
It's not always easy to convince the seller to let you plug in an OBD adapter to use something like leafspy. At least a 100% ev dealer will understand (I guess?)

ELM327

TigerTim wrote: »

I'm also looking at the Outlander PHEV. Currently driving a 2.2 C-Crosser with over €1000 morot tax per year (I only can pay per quarter). Only doing mainly local mileage now but need a towcar for the summer months (1500kg capacity will be OK).I spoke to Sean in Eco-Cars yesterday. Found him quite good to discuss my options with on the phone. Not your usual pushy car salesman.

My tuppence worth,

T.

I spoke to his wife before about an outlander before buying a leaf from electric autos. Both places were great, as you say, not pushy at all and full of advise. Much better than the main dealers that - judging by people I meet at chargers - dont even explain charging basics!

peposhi

cros13 wrote: »

And another point is both those lads know how to spot a good PHEV/EV and have checked the battery etc.

That’s the main thing!

Anyone who is not experienced in EV world leaves him/herself well exposed when doing all the work. Yes, it is generally cheaper to do so, but is it worth the risk?!?
I am looking to replace the Yaris now with an Outlander - guess what I’d do - trust Phil from Co. Kildare yet again as he knows what he is doing and is my back up if something goes wrong. The dealers are far less helpful compared to this lad and he’d always do the extra mile to ensure you are a happy customer...