Advice please.

TheFarrier

Hi all
Looking for a bit of advice as to what my options are at home.
The aul lad at home gave up the cows maybe 16 years ago, kept a few suckers but we haven't had any cattle in over ten years now. Most of the farm let out, but we have about 20 acres around the house for the horses.
I'm living at home in my mid 20s, shoeing horses by trade but doing a fair bit of work on a neighbouring relations dairy farm to fill in the gaps in my own time, have been since I was about 12, so well capable around animals.
I've been toying with the idea of keeping a few cattle at home again. We have a three bay slatted shed and about 30 cubicles, but all I'm thinking of doing is buying a few calves and rearing them.
Only thing is I'm not sure what way I should go about.
Do I buy friesian bull calves from the farm I work on, do i buy angud or Hereford calves, do i buy weanlings??

The land we have at our own disposal could do with a bit of improving that isn't really in the budget just now, fencing and fertilizing and things, so would I be better utilizing the sheds we have and feeding them inside, plenty hay and haylage for the horses here so a bit of ration wouldn't be a huge outlay.

Whatever I do will be be very small scale for the foreseeable future maybe 5 animals max, but I'm just not sure what's my best option.


This is a bit rambling I know but tbh I'm not even sure what questions I should be asking.

All advice much appreciated

49801

Rear calves from dairy you help out on?
Be better if you could start reseeding though

Finish Screw cows on meal would be a start.

Get some soil samples done and start making choices then. Prob needs a fair bit of lime.

TheFarrier

Thanks for your reply
Reseeding really isn't an option an the moment. I know it's what should be done in an ideal world but there's no way I could afford that kind of outlay.
If I could get one field fenced and made into paddocks and fertilize the whole place I reckon I'd be doing fairly well.
Am I barking up the wrong tree altogether here until I can get reseeding or is there any viable opportunity to get a few cattle around the place??
Tbh it's not a thing I ever intend to do full time or anything like it, I just want to be able rear a few animals for my own enjoyment

jimini0

Have you a herd number?
I was looking to get away from my few sucklers so I did a small bit of looking into things.
Suck calves..
Rearing calves is tricky. Cheap to buy 150-300 for nice types and if kept alive will do well but if you have a sick one. Watch the euros disappear.
Weanling...
Buy above already reared 300-500. In spring and straight out to grass. A bit of meal and sell in October or November. If your lucky you might double your money.
Continental weanling..
Limousine, charolais, blue etc buy for 500-800 out to grass sell in October might make 200-300
Now these figures are rough i was just given those figures buy a mate who does it. It will give you a rough guide. Or somebody on here might have right sums to help.

Water John

The best return to improve ground is, lime. Old grass swards tend to have some clover. The cull cows, mentioned above, are a good call. Easy to manage and will put on weight, if you can get them at the right price and shape. Otherwise go with the yearlings.

TheFarrier

Thanks for your reply
I haven't a herd number but the aul lad does and seeing as the farm is in his name I'm covered there aren't I??

See the points you made are the kind of info I was after.
I suppose buying weanlings is the way to go, but givem tbe way things are at home i womder eould i be better buyong a few early bull calves from the farm I work on and while I have them inside and on milk replacer be spreading a bit of fert on a field in prep for them to go out on.

Or do I put a few pound into the land at home through the spring and summer and buy a few bullocks or something in the autumn and house them for the winter and finish them.

Peter90

5/6 heifers buy them spring, with the shed could pick them up when you want feb/mar/Apr. Buy from 6months to a year old. Keep for around 18 months, have them for sale of grass August time, handy system no point putting money in straight away in reseeding 20 acres would have serious heifers coming out of that if only with small numbers

jimini0

TheFarrier wrote: »

Thanks for your reply
I haven't a herd number but the aul lad does and seeing as the farm is in his name I'm covered there aren't I??

See the points you made are the kind of info I was after.
I suppose buying weanlings is the way to go, but givem tbe way things are at home i womder eould i be better buyong a few early bull calves from the farm I work on and while I have them inside and on milk replacer be spreading a bit of fert on a field in prep for them to go out on.

Or do I put a few pound into the land at home through the spring and summer and buy a few bullocks or something in the autumn and house them for the winter and finish them.

You may have excess grass with the calves. You could fertilise it and sell the grass to make a few extra quid to do a bit of fenceing and stuff like that.

Snowfire

Is there a need to call your father the “aul lad” I always cringe when I hear lads use it. I’m sure you have lots of respect for him, but I just think it sounds little disrespectful...?

greysides

Snowfire wrote: »

Is there a need to call your father the “aul lad” I always cringe when I hear lads use it. I’m sure you have lots of respect for him, but I just think it sounds little disrespectful...?

It's a common enough idiom. Usually no disrespectful connotations, IME.

Water John

The auld lad and the young garsun.

quietsailor

TheFarrier wrote: »

. We have a three bay slatted shed and about 30 cubicles,

The land we have at our own disposal could do with a bit of improving that isn't really in the budget just now, fencing and fertilizing and things, so .


All advice much appreciated

Is contract feeding of another farmers cattle possible? You might not need to make any changes for a few years and build up savings that way, then go about farm improvements

CloughCasey1

TheFarrier wrote: »

Thanks for your reply
I haven't a herd number but the aul lad does and seeing as the farm is in his name I'm covered there aren't I??

See the points you made are the kind of info I was after.
I suppose buying weanlings is the way to go, but givem tbe way things are at home i womder eould i be better buyong a few early bull calves from the farm I work on and while I have them inside and on milk replacer be spreading a bit of fert on a field in prep for them to go out on.

Or do I put a few pound into the land at home through the spring and summer and buy a few bullocks or something in the autumn and house them for the winter and finish them.

Do a deal on rearing a few bull calves with the heifers on the farm you are working on. Try and get calves over next few weeks. Transfer them to yer herd in March as reared runners and they will hit the ground running. Dont go spending big money on cattle starting off.

Who2

theres 20 acres around the house thats been used for grazing horses the last 16 years. i doubt its in the best of shape to get the most out of it. youve loads of shed space and rough grazing so if it was me id be buying the cull cows from the lad you work with. youve passed all time limits already with them, so you can open the gate and nearly walk away. theyll be as quiet as youll get and shouldnt cost a bomb. calves are a hard learning curve if they start to go wrong and need looking after. throw a couple of auld culls out with the horses and dont worry too much about them, when they are fit they are fit.

TheFarrier

Thanks for all yer advice, great variety of opinions here, which is what I was after.
Ye have given me a lot to think about, thanks all of ye

Base price

I agree with Who2, horses are hard on ground - I should know I have kept them for years along with sucklers. Cattle do compliment grassland where horses are kept (along with proper grassland management) as they will graze the sour grass that horses don't and visa versa.
Ex dairy cows are (generally) docile to handle and will ease you into keeping livestock. Mastitis prevention is key to success during the Summer months but can be easy managed with regular applications of Stockholm tar which is easy enough to do in the field while the cow is offered a handful of meal/nuts in a bucket.

TheFarrier

Base price wrote: »

I agree with Who2, horses are hard on ground - I should know I have kept them for years along with sucklers. Cattle do compliment grassland where horses are kept (along with proper grassland management) as they will graze the sour grass that horses don't and visa versa.
Ex dairy cows are (generally) docile to handle and will ease you into keeping livestock. Mastitis prevention is key to success during the Summer months but can be easy managed with regular applications of Stockholm tar which is easy enough to do in the field while the cow is offered a handful of meal/nuts in a bucket.

Don't i know, the aul lad is gone must breeding them and they are gathering in numbers here. When ye say to buy cull cows, is that in order to fatten them for slaughter??

Base price

TheFarrier wrote: »

Don't i know, the aul lad is gone must breeding them and they are gathering in numbers here. When ye say to buy cull cows, is that in order to fatten them for slaughter??

Yep. You stated that you occasionally worked for a relation that is a dairy farmer. You are in a unique position in that you could buy - select/choose the best/most mobile/fittest of their cull cows.

TheFarrier

Base price wrote: »

Yep. You stated that you occasionally worked for a relation that is a dairy farmer. You are in a unique position in that you could buy - select/choose the best/most mobile/fittest of their cull cows.

I asked this man for his opinion a few weeks ago and he made out my easiest way in was buying a few of his bull calves once they start calving after Christmas. What's your opinion on this?? I must say it to him about the cull cows. See what he has to say about that.

MIKEKC

jimini0 wrote: »

Have you a herd number?
I was looking to get away from my few sucklers so I did a small bit of looking into things.
Suck calves..
Rearing calves is tricky. Cheap to buy 150-300 for nice types and if kept alive will do well but if you have a sick one. Watch the euros disappear.
Weanling...
Buy above already reared 300-500. In spring and straight out to grass. A bit of meal and sell in October or November. If your lucky you might double your money.
Continental weanling..
Limousine, charolais, blue etc buy for 500-800 out to grass sell in October might make 200-300
Now these figures are rough i was just given those figures buy a mate who does it. It will give you a rough guide. Or somebody on here might have right sums

Make 200-300 from summer grazing? Would want to be adding up expences

Base price

TheFarrier wrote: »

I asked this man for his opinion a few weeks ago and he made out my easiest way in was buying a few of his bull calves once they start calving after Christmas. What's your opinion on this?? I must say it to him about the cull cows. See what he has to say about that.

TBPH if I was in your position I would be hoovering up his dairy bull calves if I could get them sub €50/€60/hd presuming that they are FR's (cross breds also but I would pick the better types sub €20/hd) but that is because I have years of experience rearing suck calves.
If you have no experience of rearing sucks and if he is prepared to offer advice/assistance then I would try rearing 5 or 6.
Milk replacer is going to cost approx .28c/ltr for 9 day old calves (calves cannot be legally moved/transported off farm within 100km until they are at least 9 days old) to approx 21 days old will require 4 litres per day divided over two feeds. You need to add in the cost of calf crunch, straw for bedding and straw or hay for feeding, ESB costs for heating water to mix the milk replacer, brsv/pi3 vaccinations and preventative cocci treatments like bovicox.

jimini0

Make 200-300 from summer grazing? Would want to be adding up expences[/quote]

Well as I said those are rough figures.

TheFarrier

Base price wrote: »

TBPH if I was in your position I would be hoovering up his dairy bull calves if I could get them sub €50/€60/hd presuming that they are FR's (cross breds also but I would pick the better types sub €20/hd) but that is because I have years of experience rearing suck calves.
If you have no experience of rearing sucks and if he is prepared to offer advice/assistance then I would try rearing 5 or 6.
Milk replacer is going to cost approx .28c/ltr for 9 day old calves (calves cannot be legally moved/transported off farm within 100km until they are at least 9 days old) to approx 21 days old will require 4 litres per day divided over two feeds. You need to add in the cost of calf crunch, straw for bedding and straw or hay for feeding, ESB costs for heating water to mix the milk replacer, brsv/pi3 vaccinations and preventative cocci treatments like bovicox.

I've spent between 2 and 4 days a week on his farm for the last 10+ years so I'd be reasonably well versed in all parts of the his game, his place bounds mine so it's not far to have to shout when I need advice. Straw and hay is already here for the horses anyway. And my dad was milking for 25+ years before he gave it up. So I wouldn't be all on my own in any way either.
It's nearly all fr calves, the odd angus and Hereford cross but vast majority would be fr.
If he'll sell for 50 a hd(or better yet knock the price of them off my pay check) then I might chance 2 or 3 this spring. No great reason why I couldn't bring down a few cull cows too.
If I was to bring on a few bull calves how long would one be expecting to hold on to them?? See it's the beef side of things I really haven't a clue on as the boys next door don't keep anything that won't end up in the parlour

Base price

I would keep them until their are 14 mths presuming they are Feb/Mar born calves. Target p/t farmers looking for grazing stock - these type of stock are old enough to cover their lu units requirements under SFP.

TheFarrier

Good stuff. Thanks for taking the time to answer all my questions, I appreciate it immensely

Base price

TheFarrier wrote: »

Good stuff. Thanks for taking the time to answer all my questions, I appreciate it immensely

No prob. Other people on this forum may not agree with my advice and may have better suggestions.
That is the thing that I love about F&F, as we can all learn from one another.

Base price

Another thing to be aware off before you buy in any livestock and jimini0 referred to it in a previous post. You stated that your Dad hasn't kept cattle in the last 12 years therefore your Dad's herd number will have become dormant irrespective if he receives SFP. Your Dad will need to contact his local DVO https://www.agriculture.gov.ie/contact/regionalveterinaryoffices/ (before you buy stock) to get his herd number reactivated otherwise livestock cannot be moved into his herd number.

TheFarrier

Base price wrote: »

Another thing to be aware off before you buy in any livestock and jimini0 referred to it in a previous post. You stated that your Dad hasn't kept cattle in the last 12 years therefore your Dad's herd number will have become dormant irrespective if he receives SFP. Your Dad will need to contact his local DVO https://www.agriculture.gov.ie/contact/regionalveterinaryoffices/ (before you buy stock) to get his herd number reactivated otherwise livestock cannot be moved into his herd number.

Yep I've been made aware of this.
Thank you

Base price

If you do decide to rear a few dairy bull calves and keep them for the first Winter. I would advice that if your going to house them in the slatted unit that you bed one or two bays as a lying area for them. You can feed them off the other bays.
If you/your Dad have skipping of straw from the horse's stables than I would use that as a cheap form of bedding - it's all about recycling nowdays

TheFarrier

Base price wrote: »

If you do decide to rear a few dairy bull calves and keep them for the first Winter. I would advice that if your going to house them in the slatted unit that you bed one or two bays as a lying area for them. You can feed them off the other bays.
If you/your Dad have skipping of straw from the horse's stables than I would use that as a cheap form of bedding - it's all about recycling nowdays

There's a lean to between the slats and the silage pit I was gonna put a pen for them in there. Half the shed is stacked with round bales of hay and straw I was thinking the stack of bales would shelter the shed a bit and keep draught off their back without compromising ventilation.

Good idea or bad??

Base price

TheFarrier wrote: »

There's a lean to between the slats and the silage pit I was gonna put a pen for them in there. Half the shed is stacked with round bales of hay and straw I was thinking the stack of bales would shelter the shed a bit and keep draught off their back without compromising ventilation.

Good idea or bad??

Good idea. We use our slatted unit as an extra shed for rearing calves. We bed the slats and put a double stack of round bales of straw/hay along the feed passage to keep out draughts.

lab man

TheFarrier wrote:

Thanks for your reply Reseeding really isn't an option an the moment. I know it's what should be done in an ideal world but there's no way I could afford that kind of outlay. If I could get one field fenced and made into paddocks and fertilize the whole place I reckon I'd be doing fairly well. Am I barking up the wrong tree altogether here until I can get reseeding or is there any viable opportunity to get a few cattle around the place?? Tbh it's not a thing I ever intend to do full time or anything like it, I just want to be able rear a few animals for my own enjoyment

Get a loan of a chain harrow feck down the seed get slurry off the farm yer on 15 Jan blacken the field tho twill be fine I've resealed in every month except december