New driver - first car advice

AngryGoldfish

I began learning to drive around a year ago and passed my test two months ago. I'll have been a named driver on a family member's insurance come March next year and hope to buy my first car then. I've been largely doing my own research, but I've come to a bit of a dead-end—or a crossroads depending on which driving analogy you prefer—and thought I'd ask here for some advice.

At first I thought the best option would be to go down the same route my sister took—fork out €4-5k on a bog standard 2008-ish 1.0L Toyota Yaris. Then I learned about financing (PCP, leasing, etc) and thought I could actually afford a much newer car, something I never considered before. The five that ended up on my shortlist were the Hyundai i10, Volkswagen Up, Skoda Citigo, Kia Picanto (2017 update), and SEAT Mii. They're all pretty much the same, but if I could choose any of them based on features and styling I'd go with the Picanto; I really dig the way it looks. It's a bit out of my price range though as I'm hoping to keep no higher than €13,500. I liked them all for their conveniences (tight turning circle, cheaper insurance, availability, etc) and for the most part thought they all looked quite nice, especially the Picanto EX model.

But what if I were to look into older cars, maybe Diesels with more power? All of the ones I've listed are slow Petrol 1.0L engines. Would it be worth my while looking into older cars? And if so what? My father recommended a 1.4 diesel Mini Cooper from 2003. Insurance would likely be massive, and tax would be higher too, but it would be a significantly faster car and cheaper to buy outright. He suggested that if I could find one with a 2-year NCT date then I could simply upgrade every two years to a different car of similar ilk before the NCT date hit and never have to worry about paying a premium for the car to pass through the NCT.

The main benefits of this would be a faster car and less money outright. The main negative would be the insurance and tax. But there could also be more challenges with maintenance (even with selling it every two years). I don't even know what to look for in an older car as I've already spent weeks settling on the five mentioned above. So any advice would be awesome. I'm also undecided on whether financing is for me or not. I'm not a member of the Credit Union, but I'll sign up in case I want to go that route. PCP's look enticing, but again I'm undecided.

colm_mcm

Do you understand how PCP works?

AngryGoldfish

colm_mcm wrote: »

Do you understand how PCP works?

I think so. I would pay deposit on a used or new car (I've seen anywhere from 10-30%). I would then pay monthly payments on the car for three years, after which I would trade in my car at the value that was initially agreed upon. The price will factor in the depreciated value of the vehicle. If the price was €12,000 outright, I might pay a €4000 deposit plus 3 years of monthly payments that includes APR and the depreciated value. The agreed value of the car after the three years is then used as a deposit for the next car, is bought outright at whatever the final sum is, or is handed back in and you walk away with no further ties to the garage.

colm_mcm

Yeah, that's essentially it. I don't see how reckon you can suddenly afford it though. The real rub is that after the 3 years you need to either tie yourself in for another 3 years on another car, or find the money to pay it off (or walk away)

AngryGoldfish

colm_mcm wrote: »

Yeah, that's essentially it. I don't see how reckon you can suddenly afford it though. The real rub is that after the 3 years you need to either tie yourself in for another 3 years on another car, or find the money to pay it off (or walk away)

Yeah, that's the issue I have. It's both a blessing and a curse to tie myself down. The convenience of knowing I have a car for the next three years and beyond and, depending on the warranty, be supported for many faults, it's great. I could get a nice car I really like every three years. But the cost of it would be huge. If my circumstances changed, I would be screwed.

Cakerbaker

AngryGoldfish wrote: »

I think so. I would pay deposit on a used or new car (I've seen anywhere from 10-30%). I would then pay monthly payments on the car for three years, after which I would trade in my car at the value that was initially agreed upon. The price will factor in the depreciated value of the vehicle. If the price was €12,000 outright, I might pay a €4000 deposit plus 3 years of monthly payments that includes APR and the depreciated value. The agreed value of the car after the three years is then used as a deposit for the next car, is bought outright at whatever the final sum is, or is handed back in and you walk away with no further ties to the garage.

The agreed value of the car is what you owe at the end. It’s any excess value on top of that that you could use as a new deposit. So for example the agreed value is €6000. If after 3 years they offer you €6000 for the car you have no deposit. If they offer you €8000 you have a €2000 deposit for a new car.

AngryGoldfish

Cakerbaker wrote: »

The agreed value of the car is what you owe at the end. It’s any excess value on top of that that you could use as a new deposit. So for example the agreed value is €6000. If after 3 years they offer you €6000 for the car you have no deposit. If they offer you €8000 you have a €2000 deposit for a new car.

OK, getcha.

AngryGoldfish

This question may be impossible to answer here, but I'll try anyway. Does anyone have any idea whether the 1.2L diesel 75BHP engine that's found in cars like the VW Polo and SEAT Ibiza is going to be substantially more expensive to insure over a 1.0L petrol 75BHP engine that's found in cars like the VW Up and SEAT Mii? This is for a driver who's been on insurance for a year with no claims. Is insurance quoted purely on engine size and (mostly) ignores other factors such as acceleration, top speed, horsepower, torque, etc? The SEAT Mii with a 1.0L petrol 75BHP engine actually might be a little faster than the 1.2L diesel, but will the diesel be more expensive? I'll ask the same regarding turbos. Will a 1.0L with a turbo be less expensive to insure than a 1.4L that's actually slightly slower?

You can get a newer, more powerful and bigger car for your budget, so I'd have another look on the sites before going much further down the PCP route.

As for insurance, it's a complete crapshoot. I got quotes for 4-5k for "powerful" cars and then for the likes of a Panda or an Astra it was around 3k. In the end I got a 1.8 diesel Focus and got insured for well under 2k. Most companies wouldn't quote me at all on that either, so ya just gotta put in a day checking around.

Another thing to consider (and I'm gonna be a killjoy here) is that it's your first car, and prangs may be more likely in the first while you're driving. If I'd done to a brand-new car what I did to my 8 year old car I'm pretty sure I would have cried. :P

AngryGoldfish

Deleted User wrote: »

You can get a newer, more powerful and bigger car for your budget, so I'd have another look on the sites before going much further down the PCP route.

As for insurance, it's a complete crapshoot. I got quotes for 4-5k for "powerful" cars and then for the likes of a Panda or an Astra it was around 3k. In the end I got a 1.8 diesel Focus and got insured for well under 2k. Most companies wouldn't quote me at all on that either, so ya just gotta put in a day checking around.

Another thing to consider (and I'm gonna be a killjoy here) is that it's your first car, and prangs may be more likely in the first while you're driving. If I'd done to a brand-new car what I did to my 8 year old car I'm pretty sure I would have cried. :P

I'm going off the idea of a PCP. Instead I'd like to stick to around €10k as a budget with wiggle room if absolutely necessary (I'd have to borrow money from a family member or, if they'll let me, borrow from Credit Union).

€2k on insurance is a lot. That's not much less than what I was quoted as a new driver. I've considered BoxyMo, but I don't trust them; the reviews are terrible.

And yeah, I've thought about what will happen to the car as I drive it, and I'm torn. On the one hand I know I'm a safe driver and feel that if I'm going to scratch and dent it all up, should I really be driving in the first place? Also, I'm 29, have a disability and can only work sparingly (so won't be commuting to work every day), I'm not a socialite, and I'm not too fussed about driving for fun. I'd like to do a little bit of it, but it's not my main concern. I just need to be able to get from point A to point B in comfort and a little style. I can't avoid others bumping into me all the time, but I'm confident I won't be making any silly mistakes myself.

U_Fig

AngryGoldfish wrote: »

I'm going off the idea of a PCP. Instead I'd like to stick to around €10k as a budget with wiggle room if absolutely necessary (I'd have to borrow money from a family member or, if they'll let me, borrow from Credit Union).

€2k on insurance is a lot. That's not much less than what I was quoted as a new driver. I've considered BoxyMo, but I don't trust them; the reviews are terrible.

And yeah, I've thought about what will happen to the car as I drive it, and I'm torn. On the one hand I know I'm a safe driver and feel that if I'm going to scratch and dent it all up, should I really be driving in the first place? Also, I'm 29, have a disability and can only work sparingly (so won't be commuting to work every day), I'm not a socialite, and I'm not too fussed about driving for fun. I'd like to do a little bit of it, but it's not my main concern. I just need to be able to get from point A to point B in comfort and a little style. I can't avoid others bumping into me all the time, but I'm confident I won't be making any silly mistakes myself.

the difference I got in insurance quotes for my 1.0 Opel Corsa towards a 1.4 golf was marginal when i started dricing 3 years ago, I would have expected a bigger difference. Insurance doesn't look purely at engine sizes, the only way to really know is to ring and get quotes.

like for example about a year ago I got quoted just under 1400 for a 192 BPH 1.8TSI Ibiza Cupra and got a a higher quote 1600 for a 1.4TSI 160 BHP golf, shop around also and don't be afraid to haggle down a bit if you get a quote cheaper at one ring the other back and tell them, they will in a lot of cases match or better it to get the business.

If you are not going to be driving that much and have little interest in driving for pleasure no point in my opinion in going and buying a really expensive car, got mid way up your budget, get a car in good condition and save the rest or put it into something else.

AngryGoldfish

U_Fig wrote: »

the difference I got in insurance quotes for my 1.0 Opel Corsa towards a 1.4 golf was marginal when i started dricing 3 years ago, I would have expected a bigger difference. Insurance doesn't look purely at engine sizes, the only way to really know is to ring and get quotes.

like for example about a year ago I got quoted just under 1400 for a 192 BPH 1.8TSI Ibiza Cupra and got a a higher quote 1600 for a 1.4TSI 160 BHP golf, shop around also and don't be afraid to haggle down a bit if you get a quote cheaper at one ring the other back and tell them, they will in a lot of cases match or better it to get the business.

If you are not going to be driving that much and have little interest in driving for pleasure no point in my opinion in going and buying a really expensive car, got mid way up your budget, get a car in good condition and save the rest or put it into something else.

I'm interested in driving for pleasure. I was more referring to driving for the thrill of it, as in taking corners at higher speeds, speeding off from stationary, that type of thing. It was more to say that I feel like I'm a safe driver and don't take unnecessary risks in order to have fun. I enjoy driving, but casually with a little bit of fun every now and again. The difference between driving my mother's clunky Citroen Picasso versus my old driving instructors' Vauxhall was night and day. I enjoyed cruising in her car.

Just to really hammer home the point, I was getting lower quotes on 160+bhp Saabs than on 1. nothing Pandas. :P

Find something you like is the main thing, should be plenty of room in your budget for what you want.

AngryGoldfish

Deleted User wrote: »

Just to really hammer home the point, I was getting lower quotes on 160+bhp Saabs than on 1. nothing Pandas. :P

Find something you like is the main thing, should be plenty of room in your budget for what you want.

Yeah, I'm going to try out as many cars as I can and not limit myself as much as I was initially going to do. I'll try out 1.4L engines (the 2014 facelift Toyota Yaris looks nice) and if I like it, check what the insurance is going to be for it.

I found a SEAT Mii 75bhp model that ticks most of the boxes for €6950. Low mileage for the year (2013), low road tax, sporty styling, I think that type of thing would be ideal. It's not cheap but it's not expensive either.

I also found a copper (love the colour) Fiesta EcoBoost for €8950, again with low mileage. The Fiesta would be awesome if I wanted more power and space. There are some bargain Mazda 2's up North as well, but they might be a hassle to repair if anything went wrong.

Starscream25

AngryGoldfish wrote: »

Yeah, I'm going to try out as many cars as I can and not limit myself as much as I was initially going to do. I'll try out 1.4L engines (the 2014 facelift Toyota Yaris looks nice) and if I like it, check what the insurance is going to be for it.

I found a SEAT Mii 75bhp model that ticks most of the boxes for €6950. Low mileage for the year (2013), low road tax, sporty styling, I think that type of thing would be ideal. It's not cheap but it's not expensive either.

I also found a copper (love the colour) Fiesta EcoBoost for €8950, again with low mileage. The Fiesta would be awesome if I wanted more power and space. There are some bargain Mazda 2's up North as well, but they might be a hassle to repair if anything went wrong.

Couldn't recommend the fiesta ecoboost enough OP, I've a 100bhp 100ps version and it ticks a lot of boxes, cheap to run, power to weight ratio is good, they're comfortable and are good off the line. I'd stay away from the 1.0 65bhp standard for Ireland as well as any 1.4 engine, they are slow, sluggish and outdated.
There are a few 100bhps banging about on donedeal between 9 and 11k, linked 2 below for you the second one being a titanium model.

https://www.donedeal.ie/view/17180527
Ford Fiesta Ecoboost Zetec 100PS PRICE DROP


https://www.donedeal.ie/view/15987341
Ford Fiesta 1 Liter EcoBoost €30 a week finance

Resale value would always be good in a fiesta as they are very popular.
Not sure if the copper fiesta you mentioned is 100bhp or the standard Irish 65-82 bhp but If you can I would stretch to the 100bhp version should you go down the fiesta route.

Did you go for anything in the end?

colm_mcm

The 1.25 is even slower than the non turbo 1.0

Starscream25

colm_mcm wrote: »

The 1.25 is even slower than the non turbo 1.0

Had an lx 1.25 fiesta back in the day, great car but It's great to have the extra bit of go in the turbo ecoboosts. Cheaper than the 1.25 to run as well. The more I think about it the more it annoys me the different and better spec available to the Uk for lower prices that the south doesn't have.

colm_mcm

Starscream25 wrote: »

Had an lx 1.25 fiesta back in the day, great car but It's great to have the extra bit of go in the turbo ecoboosts. Cheaper than the 1.25 to run as well. The more I think about it the more it annoys me the different and better spec available to the Uk for lower prices that the south doesn't have.

They detuned the 1.25 towards the end. Assume it was in the name of emissions.

AngryGoldfish

Starscream25 wrote: »

Couldn't recommend the fiesta ecoboost enough OP, I've a 100bhp 100ps version and it ticks a lot of boxes, cheap to run, power to weight ratio is good, they're comfortable and are good off the line. I'd stay away from the 1.0 65bhp standard for Ireland as well as any 1.4 engine, they are slow, sluggish and outdated.
There are a few 100bhps banging about on donedeal between 9 and 11k, linked 2 below for you the second one being a titanium model.

https://www.donedeal.ie/view/17180527
Ford Fiesta Ecoboost Zetec 100PS PRICE DROP


https://www.donedeal.ie/view/15987341
Ford Fiesta 1 Liter EcoBoost €30 a week finance

Resale value would always be good in a fiesta as they are very popular.
Not sure if the copper fiesta you mentioned is 100bhp or the standard Irish 65-82 bhp but If you can I would stretch to the 100bhp version should you go down the fiesta route.

Did you go for anything in the end?

Yeah, the copper one was the EcoBoost version. It's the cheapest I found in Ireland, at least from a dealership on Cars Ireland. I'm not sure why Ford even bother using other engines since the EcoBoost is so efficient and popular.

It might have something to do with insurance because as much as I'd love the extra power and efficiency, the insurance is higher than I was hoping. Initially I made the rookie mistake of thinking that I had a years no claims bonus, but that applies to my mother's name and not my own. With a more accurate quote I'm looking at no less than €1200 for a 59bhp vehicle (fully comp). It'll be €1500-1600 or more for a 99bhp Fiesta, Corsa, or Ibiza. I don't know whether I can warrant that. I'll still try and find one to test out, but it's looking like I should stick to the vehicles with lower insurance costs. The highest performing low insurance category car I've found is the Kia Rio (based on the UK system). There's a nice one in Roscommon for €8900. The same engine and insurance bracket can be found in the Hyundai i20 1.2 with 83 bhp. It's supposed to be a nippy enough engine and quite efficient for its age. Those two as well as the VW Up, Skoda Citigo, and SEAT Mii are the main contenders. There's a few lovely Citigos up North I'm keen on that have trim levels I can't find down South.

Travelling to anywhere other than Connaught, Dublin, or maybe the North is going to be hard. There aren't many willing to cart me around to test out cars. Cork, Kerry, Waterford, they're way off grid for me. No one is going to want to take me that far from Sligo.