The Net Neutrality Vote - December 14th

bodhrandude

My teacher at college was discussing net neutrality the other day, the chairman of the Federal Communications Commission, Ajit Pai wants the freedom of the web to be controlled, which means possibly pay walls for most things we take for granted on the net. They want to demote the regular internet to Tier 1 which means slower internet that is pay-walled to fcuk and a Tier 2 for those who can afford it (the current freedom we enjoy so far). I don't like the sound of this myself and will vote accordingly if given the chance. Thoughts?

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/12/08/opinion/facebook-net-neutrality.html

tigger123

Could never see it happen in the EU tbh.

US citizens seem to be constantly ridden by their legislative process; gun control, electoral colleges, health care, tax breaks, net nuetrality...

When I see how one government can screw over it's citizens like this it makes me glad we're part of the EU, it acts as a watchdog.

The_Valeyard

Think Portugal has it?


But dont see it taking off in the EU in general.

BowSideChamp

tigger123 wrote: »

When I see how one government can screw over it's citizens like this it makes me glad we're part of the EU, it acts as a watchdog.

Like how the EU can saddle the Irish State with billions of debt.

Vic_08

BowSideChamp wrote: »

Like how the EU can saddle the Irish State with billions of debt.

I think you will find that was Fianna Fail.

Vladimir Poontang

tigger123 wrote: »

Could never see it happen in the EU tbh.

The US citizens seems to be constantly ridden by it's legislative process; gun control, electoral colleges, health care, tax breaks, net nuetrality...

When I see how one government can screw over it's citizens like this it makes me glad we're part of the EU, it acts as a watchdog.

Hahahahahahahahaha good christ

123shooter

The EU wants to determine what you can and cannot access on the internet.

tigger123

123shooter wrote: »

The EU wants to determine what you can and cannot access on the internet.

Really? Source?

server down

Vladimir Poontang wrote: »

Hahahahahahahahaha good christ

He’s right on this one.

Wanderer78

Vic_08 wrote: »

BowSideChamp wrote: »

Like how the EU can saddle the Irish State with billions of debt.

I think you will find that was Fianna Fail.

I think you 'll find that was the plutocratic forces deeply embedded within our socioeconomic systems and institutions, but thankfully due to the 'trickle down' effect, this all evens out eventually, apparently!

123shooter

Their are many sources (EU minister political ramblings) but as far as I know nothing has been implemented as law yet because for one thing it takes forever with the EU.

tigger123

123shooter wrote: »

Their are many sources (EU minister political ramblings) but as far as I know nothing has been implemented as law yet because for one thing it takes forever with the EU.

Ah come on. Any web link to what you're claiming, at all?

123shooter

tigger123 wrote: »

Ah come on. Any web link to what you're claiming, at all?

Theres loads of stuff........fake news for one..........put a search in for eu wants to ban fake news..........and you will see lots of waffle reported from ministers proposing ways of stopping it including the internet.

But what is fake news?

tigger123

123shooter wrote: »

Theres loads of stuff........fake news for one..........put a search in for eu wants to ban fake news..........and you will see lots of waffle reported from ministers proposing ways of stopping it including the internet.

But what is fake news?

News that is fake I would have thought.

Anita Blow

tigger123 wrote: »

Could never see it happen in the EU tbh.

US citizens seem to be constantly ridden by their legislative process; gun control, electoral colleges, health care, tax breaks, net nuetrality...

When I see how one government can screw over it's citizens like this it makes me glad we're part of the EU, it acts as a watchdog.

This already happens in the EU.
Look at any of our mobile networks. Eg- Eir offers unlimited Youtube/Facebook etc which doesn't eat into your data.

RobbingBandit

Queue Family Guy, oh yeah I know all about the FCC.

tigger123

Anita Blow wrote: »

This already happens in the EU.
Look at any of our mobile networks. Eg- Eir offers unlimited Youtube/Facebook etc which doesn't eat into your data.

Think I see your point actually... the ability for Eir to give you free access to FB, YouTube etc contravenes the idea of net neutrality by funneling you towards those platforms?

Anita Blow

tigger123 wrote: »

Think I see your point actually... the ability for Eir to give you free access to FB, YouTube etc contravenes the idea of net neutrality by funneling you towards those platforms?

Yep! In addition to speed throttling certain sites (which I don't believe happens here), these are the 2 main breaches of net neutrality.
Admittedly it's not a big breach at present because the data cap is generous, but it could end up us progressing to something like what Portugal has- https://i.imgur.com/CAGvtJj.jpg

suicide_circus

They can **** right off.

buried

Always feared they would try something like this, level it into tiers or even just take it away. This is why I've always and always will buy physical copies of the things I have an interest in - books, vinyls, films. Costs a fortune, takes up a good deal of space, but nothing can or will take it away from me until I depart this mortal kip mysel.

123shooter

tigger123 wrote: »

News that is fake I would have thought.

True but I would have thought that was the one to worry about because in reality there has been fake news in every newspaper since they were invented. But we never banned them so why recommend banning it now from the internet and who sets themselves up to determine what is fake news.

CNN tried that with Alex Jones and the others and now they are seen as the ones who tried to peddle the same............So???

People should be able to read and watch what they want and not have' those who think themselves better' try and wipe their backsides for them.

A Little Pony

tigger123 wrote: »

Could never see it happen in the EU tbh.

US citizens seem to be constantly ridden by their legislative process; gun control, electoral colleges, health care, tax breaks, net nuetrality...

When I see how one government can screw over it's citizens like this it makes me glad we're part of the EU, it acts as a watchdog.

Not sure if serious.:ermm:

5uspect

bodhrandude wrote: »

My teacher at college was discussing net neutrality the other day, the chairman of the Federal Communications Commission, Ajit Pai wants the freedom of the web to be controlled, which means possibly pay walls for most things we take for granted on the net. They want to demote the regular internet to Tier 1 which means slower internet that is pay-walled to fcuk and a Tier 2 for those who can afford it (the current freedom we enjoy so far). I don't like the sound of this myself and will vote accordingly if given the chance. Thoughts?

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/12/08/opinion/facebook-net-neutrality.html

You’re kinda confused here. The FCC under Obama reclassified internet access under Title II as a common carrier. This basically means internet access is a utility so that it can’t really be ****ed with by ISPs. What the current FCC chairman (a former Verizon lawyer) is doing is rolling back the Title II protection to how it used to be.

The ISPs argue that doing so makes the internet more free. What they fail to actually say is that this makes it easier for ISPs to be ‘innovative’ with your traffic. They ignore their prior behaviour that lead to the reclassification in the first place. This included AT&T blocking FaceTime, Comcast throttling Netflix until they paid extra, and advertisement injection.

The whole idea behind net neutrality is that all packets are equal and your ISP has no right to charge you extra based on the content they carry. Additionally your ISP should not be allowed to promote their own services at the expense of competing services. We see this with zero rating here in Ireland. Lots of mobile carriers offer free access to Facebook etc essentially putting the competitors of Facebook at a major disadvantage.

In India Facebook attempted to introduce their internet.org service which offered free access to a select number of websites. This would give Facebook even more power other the news content seen by millions of people and was blocked by the Indian government who have since introduced strong net neutrality laws.

tigger123

123shooter wrote: »

True but I would have thought that was the one to worry about because in reality there has been fake news in every newspaper since they were invented. But we never banned them so why recommend banning it now from the internet and who sets themselves up to determine what is fake news.

CNN tried that with Alex Jones and the others and now they are seen as the ones who tried to peddle the same............So???

People should be able to read and watch what they want and not have' those who think themselves better' try and wipe their backsides for them.

Where is the EU recommendation that it should be banned?

123shooter

tigger123 wrote: »

Where is the EU recommendation that it should be banned?

I didnt say that I said EU ministers spouting off saying that fake news should be banned and they were blaming Russia for it for some reason.

tigger123

123shooter wrote: »

True but I would have thought that was the one to worry about because in reality there has been fake news in every newspaper since they were invented. But we never banned them so why recommend banning it now from the internet and who sets themselves up to determine what is fake news.

CNN tried that with Alex Jones and the others and now they are seen as the ones who tried to peddle the same............So???

People should be able to read and watch what they want and not have' those who think themselves better' try and wipe their backsides for them.

You said in this post that the EU was recommending it.

I think your post is the definition of fake news.

123shooter

tigger123 wrote: »

You said in this post that the EU was recommending it.

I think your post is the definition of fake news.

No I meant EU ministers........that was accidental not intentional.

pitifulgod

123shooter wrote: »

True but I would have thought that was the one to worry about because in reality there has been fake news in every newspaper since they were invented. But we never banned them so why recommend banning it now from the internet and who sets themselves up to determine what is fake news.

CNN tried that with Alex Jones and the others and now they are seen as the ones who tried to peddle the same............So???

People should be able to read and watch what they want and not have' those who think themselves better' try and wipe their backsides for them.

CNN may be called "fake news" by some morons but it most definitely isn't. Alex Jones has claimed Sandy Hook was actors, that Fema have death camps... None of that is true...

In terms of EU plans on "fake news", it's more an effort to counteract it. For example if a load of false stories are being generated in Russia, it's better to expose the origins of where this is actually coming from. For example, numerous people claimed Pizzagate was a thing, that Hillary Clinton was dying during her campaign. These were always lies that came from people that a specific agenda. Remember seeing how TheDonald group on reddit tends to have controversial postings that occur at such a time that they will end up with more impact.

There are ways to counteract the above, it's a very real issue that has been used in efforts to influence elections. Not just in the US.

Chrongen

tigger123 wrote: »

Could never see it happen in the EU tbh.

US citizens seem to be constantly ridden by their legislative process; gun control, electoral colleges, health care, tax breaks, net nuetrality...

When I see how one government can screw over it's citizens like this it makes me glad we're part of the EU, it acts as a watchdog.

That's rather naive of you. When the US implements big brother measures to control American people it usually then tries to shoehorn these measures into every other country. Bullsh1t airport security measures spring to mind.

Chrongen

Vic_08 wrote: »

I think you will find that was Fianna Fail.

No, it was the ECB and the IMF. Fianna Fail were just patsies in the heist.

Chrongen

tigger123 wrote: »

Ah come on. Any web link to what you're claiming, at all?

It's already happening. Google is a global tool. It already buries links to information that contravenes or contradicts the establishment narrative on certain things.

Chrongen

tigger123 wrote: »

Think I see your point actually... the ability for Eir to give you free access to FB, YouTube etc contravenes the idea of net neutrality by funneling you towards those platforms?

Precisely

Chrongen

buried wrote: »

Always feared they would try something like this, level it into tiers or even just take it away. This is why I've always and always will buy physical copies of the things I have an interest in - books, vinyls, films. Costs a fortune, takes up a good deal of space, but nothing can or will take it away from me until I depart this mortal kip mysel.

Of course they will. Don't you realise that freedom, independence and autonomy is anathema to the establishment. Can't have people doing sh1t they can't control.

bodhrandude

tigger123 wrote: »

News that is fake I would have thought.

You mean stuff like Sunday Sport, Waterford Whispers and Wunderground for example?

dxhound2005

Chrongen wrote: »

It's already happening. Google is a global tool. It already buries links to information that contravenes or contradicts the establishment narrative on certain things.

Any examples?

tigger123

Chrongen wrote: »

That's rather naive of you. When the US implements big brother measures to control American people it usually then tries to shoehorn these measures into every other country. Bullsh1t airport security measures spring to mind.

Genuine question; can you give an example of US law that was "shoehorned" into the EU?

I've no idea of how that could even work.

Chrongen

tigger123 wrote: »

Genuine question; can you give an example of US law that was "shoehorned" into the EU?

I've no idea of how that could even work.

Absolutely. If you open a bank account or trading account you are demanded by law to declare whether or not you are a US citizen or green-card holder. That is US tax authorities demanding the status of those on completely sovereign soil outside the US.

I already mentioned airport security measures. They are hatched in Washington and then foisted off on the rest of the world. Complete scam.

tigger123

Chrongen wrote: »

Absolutely. If you open a bank account or trading account you are demanded by law to declare whether or not you are a US citizen or green-card holder. That is US tax authorities demanding the status of those on completely sovereign soil outside the US.

I already mentioned airport security measures. They are hatched in Washington and then foisted off on the rest of the world. Complete scam.

I opened a credit union account recently and didn't have to declare whether I was (or wasn't) a US citizen...

123shooter

pitifulgod wrote: »

CNN may be called "fake news" by some morons but it most definitely isn't. Alex Jones has claimed Sandy Hook was actors, that Fema have death camps... None of that is true...

In terms of EU plans on "fake news", it's more an effort to counteract it. For example if a load of false stories are being generated in Russia, it's better to expose the origins of where this is actually coming from. For example, numerous people claimed Pizzagate was a thing, that Hillary Clinton was dying during her campaign. These were always lies that came from people that a specific agenda. Remember seeing how TheDonald group on reddit tends to have controversial postings that occur at such a time that they will end up with more impact.

There are ways to counteract the above, it's a very real issue that has been used in efforts to influence elections. Not just in the US.

I am sorry but if others have put out fake news and you accuse them of it then you must carry the can if you do the same and it is proven that they have done same. Didn't they get caught again last week and retracted their story because of inaccuracies? Too late after they put the wrong news out.

Anyway no one should be able to say what others want to watch or listen too.

pitifulgod

123shooter wrote: »

I am sorry but if others have put out fake news and you accuse them of it then you must carry the can if you do the same and it is proven that they have done same. Didn't they get caught again last week and retracted their story because of inaccuracies? Too late after they put the wrong news out.

Anyway no one should be able to say what others want to watch or listen too.

If CNN get something that turns out to be untrue, they issue an apology and publicly announce that they were incorrect. This happens with all reputable news outlets, if an employee is found to be behaving in a questionable fashion, they'll get suspended or even fired. Infowars meanwhile hold no standard of journalism. They've publicly attacked families of victims and accused them of being actors....

123shooter

pitifulgod wrote: »

If CNN get something that turns out to be untrue, they issue an apology and publicly announce that they were incorrect. This happens with all reputable news outlets, if an employee is found to be behaving in a questionable fashion, they'll get suspended or even fired. Infowars meanwhile hold no standard of journalism. They've publicly attacked families of victims and accused them of being actors....

Hey I am not sticking up for infowars. I just think people should be able to go through life and make their own mind up without others doing it for them.

pitifulgod

123shooter wrote: »

Hey I am not sticking up for infowars. I just think people should be able to go through life and make their own mind up without others doing it for them.

I didn't refer to banning, I referred to combating bull****. When a group consistently lies it should be highlighted. CNN don't tend to be intentionally misleading if they're incorrect on something.

5uspect

Here is Comcast injecting JavaScript into your traffic.

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=15890551

bnt

The_Valeyard wrote: »

Think Portugal has it?

No, that was a specific mobile operator who offered 4G data add-on packages for heavy YouTube users. Not the Internet itself.

If the bill passes, the results might not be what some people are expecting. For example, if e.g. Comcast wants to charge more for YouTube traffic, would they try to charge the user directly? Probably not, since it's in Google's interest to keep YouTube video flowing freely, for the sake of their advertisers. So it could mean that Comcast will g0 after Google et al for more money - which could backfire on Comcast if they aren't careful. It's a free market, after all. We can expect unexpected consequences.

server down

bnt wrote: »

No, that was a specific mobile operator who offered 4G data add-on packages for heavy YouTube users. Not the Internet itself.

If the bill passes, the results might not be what some people are expecting. For example, if e.g. Comcast wants to charge more for YouTube traffic, would they try to charge the user directly? Probably not, since it's in Google's interest to keep YouTube video flowing freely, for the sake of their advertisers. So it could mean that Comcast will g0 after Google et al for more money - which could backfire on Comcast if they aren't careful. It's a free market, after all. We can expect unexpected consequences.

That’s the very point of removing net neutrality. So the ISPs can go after the companies they see as internet hogs.

Capt'n Midnight

Comment on Redit

surfing the internet in 2020 : Sweet, this lootbox I just opened will allow me to check my emails at 80% of full speed for the next 8 hours.

5uspect

server down wrote: »

That’s the very point of removing net neutrality. So the ISPs can go after the companies they see as internet hogs.

And yet the Tier 1 providers like Cogent and Level 3 who are the long-haul backbone of the internet are pro net neutrality. It’s only the last mile ISPs, who we pay, that are acting the muppet by acting as gatekeepers.

There’s a lot to be said for building publicity owned and operated ISPs.

Hande hoche!

Voting today, any predictions?