"rETIRED TEACHERS",should they be banned from superintending state exams?

ethical

The superintending forms for the summer exams came out in the past few days and were only in the door when a brigade of retired teachers rushed in the door to get their forms stamped,some had never taught in the school! I was of the opinion that these people were "banned " from such duties.Infact I know a Principal who refused to stamp the Superintending Forms last year for some retired teachers.He said it was on advice from the Dept.How many fcukin pensions do these people need? Should the bulk of the Superintending positions not be given to the young teachers who are scraping around for sub hours for the whole year.Do they not deserve the positions more so than the man down the road who is retired on a full pension,giving grinds (for cash) the whole year through and has his fingers stuck in other easy money pies as well.When ,oh,when will we get a whistleblower to stand up to such carry on that is giving teaching a never ending bad name?:mad:

spurious

Retired on a full pension should be barred, but I don't think I should be barred on a 16k income. Nor someone who started teaching late and also has a miserable pension.

keoclassic

Superintending is easy money and they probably feel that they have the right to do it for all their years service. Its debatable but lets face it, how can you stop somebody who wants to work, maybe some of them are not as flush as we might think. I do agree that the sec should be looking to the tachers with 5-6 years expierence first and not on full contracts. I do believe the ideal would be 25% experienced in years, 25% newer and 50% in the middle, give everyone a chance.

keoclassic

As for the whistle blowing, what exactly is illegal/corrupt about the current system, Do you think that the SEC are corrupt or something? It might seem unfair but that's life, isn't it.

TheDriver

I wonder do Sec struggle to fill all positions?

Postgrad10

Without them they would.

doc_17

I think it should be weighted in favour of the younger teachers. Offer it to the lesser paid first and the highest paid last. As for people retired on a full pension? Not unless there’s a shortage.

loveroflight

This thread smacks of ageism... I'm not retired, but I don't begrudge any retired person taking on work when they can and want to. We don't know their individual circumstances. If they're doing a good job, they should be allowed get on with it. They were younger at one stage and some of them possibly had difficulties finding work at the beginning. A bit of fairness and equality for all please.

happywithlife

Considering they are tight on superintendents I don't see a problem with retired people filling the gap. At least they understand the pressures young people are feeling and they appreciate the running of the exams whereas if non teaching people were hired I don't think they'd be able to offer the same level of calm reassurance to exam students. Am thinking of the suggestion thst surfaces now and again of hiring people from the live register
What does annoy me however is seeing retired people at marking conferences in my subject area - especially for the coursework element when I know for fact there are younger teachers who apply every year and are put on a reserve list. They desperately want the experience of correcting the courseworfk as it's hard to know precisely what they want without marking it yourself at least once.

RealJohn

With all due respect to the younger teachers, I imagine that the department knows that if a retired teacher says they’re available, it’s pretty unlikely that they’ll end up changing their minds and going off on holiday instead, as happens with marking, so I can only assume it also happens with superintending.

I am sympathetic to younger teachers who need the money but as others have pointed out, retired teachers are entitled to apply and might well have personal circumstances that rely on it.

Even if they don’t, they’re entitled to stay active if they want. We’ve all heard about the teachers who retire and are dead within two or three years. I’ll bet that happens less frequently to the ones who keep doing things like marking and superintending. Let them off. If you’re worried, make sure you get your forms in on time and I doubt you’ll be left without a school.

doc_17

I don’t think it’s ageist to believe that work available from Department/SEC should be offered first to those who aren’t retired. Nothing to do with age.

It’s not that long ago that teachers retired and topped up their pension by doing the odd bit of subbing in their local when there were so many teachers out of work. And that was wrong.

loveroflight

doc_17 wrote: »

I don’t think it’s ageist to believe that work available from Department/SEC should be offered first to those who aren’t retired. Nothing to do with age.

It’s not that long ago that teachers retired and topped up their pension by doing the odd bit of subbing in their local when there were so many teachers out of work. And that was wrong.

Who are you kidding!!! Of course its ageist. There's not that many teachers who retire young.
The most competent people should be hired, their status, retired, working, should not come into it. If standards are to be kept up, only competence, experience and reliability should be taken into account when choosing from the applicants.

doc_17

loveroflight wrote: »

Who are you kidding!!! Of course its ageist. There's not that many teachers who retire young.
The most competent people should be hired, their status, retired, working, should not come into it. If standards are to be kept up, only competence, experience and reliability should be taken into account when choosing from the applicants.

It’s not ageist. You’re making it sound like the young teachers of today can’t fill out a form. If they want to work they don’t have to retire.

RealJohn

doc_17 wrote: »

It’s not ageist. You’re making it sound like the young teachers of today can’t fill out a form. If they want to work they don’t have to retire.

Maybe they just don’t want to deal with the ever increasing levels of bureaucracy, pointless meetings and parents looking for anyone to blame but themselves or their kids and who could blame them? I suspect I’d give retirement serious consideration if it was an option for me and I would absolutely continue with my marking duties if it was an practical to do so after retiring from teaching. (I don’t superintend.)

byhookorbycrook

Well, if it's anything like subbing at the moment, the system will collapse without some retired teachers stepping in.

doc_17

RealJohn wrote: »

Maybe they just don’t want to deal with the ever increasing levels of bureaucracy, pointless meetings and parents looking for anyone to blame but themselves or their kids and who could blame them? I suspect I’d give retirement serious consideration if it was an option for me and I would absolutely continue with my marking duties if it was an practical to do so after retiring from teaching. (I don’t superintend.)

Yes, but since you can’t retire how would you feel if the retired and coming in and taking your handy superintending work? I know you correct but I’m not on about correctors. Superintending is one of the few options we have for overtime and we should be prioritised for it.

Millem

happywithlife wrote: »

What does annoy me however is seeing retired people at marking conferences in my subject area - especially for the coursework element when I know for fact there are younger teachers who apply every year and are put on a reserve list. They desperately want the experience of correcting the courseworfk as it's hard to know precisely what they want without marking it yourself at least once.

100% agree. It’s my subject area aswell

I think a retired teacher should only be appointed for the journals if there is a shortage.

pandoraj09

doc_17 wrote: »

I don’t think it’s ageist to believe that work available from Department/SEC should be offered first to those who aren’t retired. Nothing to do with age.

It’s not that long ago that teachers retired and topped up their pension by doing the odd bit of subbing in their local when there were so many teachers out of work. And that was wrong.[/QUOTE


You mean IS wrong. It still goes on. I know a number of "retired" teachers who took up a privately paid teaching position the September after retiring from teaching....and they correct, do the orals and supervise. On the other hand I know of young teachers appointed to supervise who do it for a few days and then just don't turn up. I often suggest to younger staff members that correcting is a great way to learn more about your subject etc and they laugh at my "madness" in suggesting they give up their holidays to work....

rainbowtrout

pandoraj09 wrote: »

doc_17 wrote: »

I don’t think it’s ageist to believe that work available from Department/SEC should be offered first to those who aren’t retired. Nothing to do with age.

It’s not that long ago that teachers retired and topped up their pension by doing the odd bit of subbing in their local when there were so many teachers out of work. And that was wrong.[/QUOTE


You mean IS wrong. It still goes on. I know a number of "retired" teachers who took up a privately paid teaching position the September after retiring from teaching....and they correct, do the orals and supervise. On the other hand I know of young teachers appointed to supervise who do it for a few days and then just don't turn up. I often suggest to younger staff members that correcting is a great way to learn more about your subject etc and they laugh at my "madness" in suggesting they give up their holidays to work....

Well if it's privately paid I don't see what difference it makes, as it has no impact on Dept/ETB jobs.

Liberal_irony

Absolutely, you're either retired or you're not. LPT's need every bit of extra cash they can get, no thanks to the grey haired brigade that try and vote down every strike over the unequal pay.

spurious

Liberal_irony wrote: »

Absolutely, you're either retired or you're not. LPT's need every bit of extra cash they can get, no thanks to the grey haired brigade that try and vote down every strike over the unequal pay.

I'm retired and I have never been given the opportunity to shaft younger members by voting for anything connected with strikes. Am I missing out, or are you spoofing?

Liberal_irony

Retired ASTI members mostly. To be fair the government frequently set it up to be a them or us deal. The recent deal is a clear example, shaft the lpts again and we'll let you out of s and s duties.

RealJohn

I should probably avoid posting here because the more I read of it, the more annoyed I get.

Why exactly should young teachers be prioritised for exam supervision? Subbing, yes. That makes perfect sense. They get valuable classroom experience and a foot in the door that could lead to a full time job. That’s fair enough. Why should they be prioritised for exam supervision though? There’s no requirement to do it and it’s of no benefit to your teaching. It’s an extra, optional activity.

Sure, younger teachers are often short of money but so what? You don’t come out of college in any other profession expecting to live in the lap of luxury. The world doesn’t owe you a living. Retired teachers might be short of money too and might have retired because they don’t feel able for the stress of being in the classroom every day but could still be struggling to make ends meet and have all sorts of commitments young teachers wouldn’t.

Frankly, it’s ridiculous to suggest that younger teachers deserve priority for exam supervision. Why on earth should they?

evolving_doors

RealJohn wrote: »

I should probably avoid posting here because the more I read of it, the more annoyed I get.

Why exactly should young teachers be prioritised for exam supervision? Subbing, yes. That makes perfect sense. They get valuable classroom experience and a foot in the door that could lead to a full time job. That’s fair enough. Why should they be prioritised for exam supervision though? There’s no requirement to do it and it’s of no benefit to your teaching. It’s an extra, optional activity.

Sure, younger teachers are often short of money but so what? You don’t come out of college in any other profession expecting to live in the lap of luxury. The world doesn’t owe you a living. Retired teachers might be short of money too and might have retired because they don’t feel able for the stress of being in the classroom every day but could still be struggling to make ends meet and have all sorts of commitments young teachers wouldn’t.

Frankly, it’s ridiculous to suggest that younger teachers deserve priority for exam supervision. Why on earth should they?

So who does deserve priority?

MrJones1973

The money is pretty ****e these days and its against the law to stop anybody applying for a job as far as I know. As a result of **** money all round in Education we have a teacher shortage and I think they scramble to get superintendents last few years. I did it for years but with childcare it doesnt add up now.

doc_17

The most annoying thing about the whole superintendent apppintment process is the people opt out willy nilly and then get reappointed the next year. At the same time the people who could only get the back up list had to fill in but were then kept on the backup list the next year.

evolving_doors

doc_17 wrote: »

The most annoying thing about the whole superintendent apppintment process is the people opt out willy nilly and then get reappointed the next year. At the same time the people who could only get the back up list had to fill in but were then kept on the backup list the next year.

I get the impression they just want to take people with experience over people who haven't.

RealJohn

evolving_doors wrote: »

So who does deserve priority?

1. Any qualified (and vetted) teacher, first and foremost (including retired teachers).
2. Then prioritise those who have done it the previous year(s) - the longer the unbroken service, the higher the priority.
3. Then, anyone else who gets the application in on time.
4. Then, anyone else qualified to do the job.

Pretty simple.

The only ones who deserve to be prioritised are teachers over non-teachers and even then, there’s an argument to be made that that doesn’t even need to come into it as long as the person is suitable for the position (though you would think people with experience supervising teenagers under exam conditions - ie. teachers - would be more suitable than the average joe off the street).

Mullzo

MrJones1973 wrote: »

The money is pretty ****e these days and its against the law to stop anybody applying for a job as far as I know. As a result of **** money all round in Education we have a teacher shortage and I think they scramble to get superintendents last few years. I did it for years but with childcare it doesnt add up now.

I disagree, I think the money given for the job done is quite on par. Furthermore if you put yourself in for a job, such as supervisor or correcting then you are also aware of the parameters and the pay involved. Don't go complaining that it's sh1t money. You were glad of it when you took it. And as regards childcare I doubt it is so demanding on you as to make anything prohibitive.

evolving_doors

that's enough for one evening Mullzo.
Life's too short.

/close thread