Kitchen extension, keep wall in centre or remove? (pics)

Howdy folks,

I presume that anyone who has ever done a rear extension will have faced this dilemma. Between the back door and back window on my house is the back wall of the house. I can either keep it or remove it. My issue is that I'm constantly changing my mind, and I have to know for sure where I stand by the end of the week.


So, nothing out of the ordinary, kitchen extension to the rear of the house. Old back door and window will be removed, and in between them there is the back wall. My choice is to remove this for a fully open plan kitchen, or keep it for a 'broken plan' approach. I change my mind every ten minutes. Just for clarity, the wall where the window was will be getting cut out. The 'wall' I'm talking about keeping is just the centre. About 4ft wide (so it's not including the wall where the window sill is)


Here's a couple of quick pics to give a rough idea of what I'm looking at. Kitchen will be going in where it is in the 1st pic (against the wall on the left)












On one hand i'm thinking I should keep it, it'll help act as a room divider, give a bit of privacy, etc.on the other hand I'm thinking if I keep it i can't really properly fit a table and chairs in without it getting in the way. Even though the wall itself takes up very little floor space, the location of it makes the usable floor space much more limited (or at least that's one of my viewpoints, anyway).


Was wondering had anyone any ideas or advice on this?


Cheers

budhabob

A lot depends on how the room/s will function. A wall will act as a divider, it will also allow you to put furniture against it in a conventional sense. But the big issue with leaving the wall in will be circulation space e.g. around the kitchen table etc.

Looking at your last line, I think you've kind of made up your mind to remove it......

One option could be to take down a portion of the wall...but again, it all depends on how the room will function, the layout of the kitchen etc.

the_sonandmoon

We've just designed something similar. But our kitchen is new and we don't want to change it. So we will be using the double doors space, and opening out the double window as much as we can, from above counter level. We have our sink, dishwasher, bins, a few cupboards at this wall, but no upper units anyway.
We will then build in an l-shaped banquet on the other side of this low wall (in the extension), for seating around the kitchen table.
It should allow the room and light to flow, but not lose great the kitchen we have already.

Thoie

I'd lean towards getting rid of it, unless you're deliberately making two rooms. (And I say this as someone who's not a fan of generic open plan). What would you do with the "old" kitchen area? If you want it to be a separate dining room or sitting room that you can close off is there enough space for that? If it's going to be part of the new kitchen, with no real separation, I think the wall will just be an annoyance.

If you want to go with the "broken plan" idea, a room divider (shelves/dresser) could go there, but with the benefit that you could move it/remove it later without major hassle. Not recommending either of those linked items, just the first google results that came up.

Howdy folks.

Cheers for the replies. I'm still very much torn on what to do with it. The other side came out today, so I've a better idea on how it'll feel with it there now, but I still don't know what to do with it.


This is it from today:

Rancid

I'd say remove the wall. It's always going to be right there in the middle of the lovely open-plan space you're creating.
As already suggested, if you need to section off part of the room in the future use a room divider which you can position exactly where you need it.

Looking forward to the updates!

Citroen2cv

Remove it, and live with it for a while. If after a while youd prefer a partition, you can always put up a stud wall for small money.

Thoie

Just noticed that section of wall is directly opposite the existing kitchen door. Think about sight lines as you approach that glass door - if you keep it as you approach it will be in your face (blocking the expanse of the big kitchen), and you'll always have to detour left or right around it to go elsewhere if you come through that door.

Citroen's suggestion of a later stud wall if you really want it is a good idea.

listermint

Wall has to go, If you did for whatever reason plan on selling the open space would be a better selling point than whats there.


There is just no way in hell i would retain that wall given the scale of work you are doing right now. Its the ideal time to remove it.

vicwatson

How about putting a double sided stove in the wall? Might not be needed mind you but could heat all that space and a nice feature too

sydthebeat

You don't appear to have any window opening in the original room, therefore the wall has to go in my opinion to brighten that space up.
Decorate both spaces to match.

Cathmandooo

Have you spoken to your builder/engineer about the cost of an RSJ if you do get rid of the wall? I'd say that would be a massive factor in your decision depending on your budget.

If money wasn't an issue I'd get rid, if you're on a tight budget it'll be grand as is

harr

Remove, we did a very similar extension a few years back and we never even considered keeping the wall and now we have a lovely open plan kitchen..it’s open plan but we have two different sections as in a TV area with a couple of two seater couch’s, TV and we put in a stove in seating area.
The stove was one of our best additions and very easy to put in.
We put in an island and have hob on that with extractor fan above island so we are facing into the kitchen when cooking.
We lost some natural light so plenty of recessed lights and under counter lights and a nice bright back splash.
Plan carefully now and you won’t regret it.

BoardsMember

No question, get rid. If it wasn't there and you walked into a lovely newly finished open plan kitchen, would you ever say to yourself "I wish there was a big wall right there in the middle". Knock it!!

jmBuildExt

Get rid of it. If you miss it in the future you can put up a stud partition for little money.

BoardsMember

BoardsMember wrote: »

No question, get rid. If it wasn't there and you walked into a lovely newly finished open plan kitchen, would you ever say to yourself "I wish there was a big wall right there in the middle". Knock it!!

I actually found that hilarious to read. Best laugh I've had in ages on boards.

I've been asking other people I know to come over and have a look at it, and give an opinion, and they all seem fairly divided, but most are leaning to keeping it.

One person that gave an opinion said pretty much what you joked about. They have a large open plan kitchen, and they said they would rather the divide because it helps break the room up and can deaden sound travel and that kinda thing. Also gives a hint of privacy. (pretty much all the 'pros' you can think of for keeping it).


I still remain undecided, mind you.

Thoie wrote: »

Just noticed that section of wall is directly opposite the existing kitchen door. Think about sight lines as you approach that glass door - if you keep it as you approach it will be in your face (blocking the expanse of the big kitchen), and you'll always have to detour left or right around it to go elsewhere if you come through that door.

Citroen's suggestion of a later stud wall if you really want it is a good idea.

Just for clarity, the wall isn't in front of the door, but staggered off to the left. (ie; if you stand in the doorway looking forward, your view is unobstructed). It does look like it's directly in front in the last picture though, I agree.



It can still be pulled out, but I let them slab over it as normal and took a fresh look at it when it's cleaned up a bit. I'm leaning towards keeping it to be honest, at the moment. I have to have a final answer for monday morning or it'll hold things up (plan is to be plastering by tuesday, so if i want rid of it, i need to say it sooner than later).



Here's some more photos that might help. I also have attached a rough plan of how I see the layout being used, which might help guide people (and makes me feel like the divide mightn't be a bad idea, but it's hard to make a clear call when you're surrounded by it every day.


Most people here seem to be leaning to removing it.











This is roughly how i picture it being (wall included)

(Just to note, these plans were whipped up in about 30 seconds, so have a very poor sense of scale or accuracy regarding dimensions)







And from sitting looking at that layout without the wall for a few mins, all i think i'd end up doing without the wall is throwing an island in there?





I don't think i really need an island (and could still get a small one in anyway if need be).


In terms of money, it'll cost, i'm lead to believe, about €2,500 to remove the centre wall. I don't find that grossly expensive to be honest. It is a fair few euro, but it's a once-in-a-lifetime expense, and I can, if i choose to remove it, budget for it.

However, obviously saving €2,500 is a decent chunk too. It's probably half the cost of a new kitchen.

As I say, I'm still torn. When i made this thread, i was leaning to remove it. Now I'm leaning to keeping it. But every day i feel different, haha. (hence the thread).

the_syco

Steel beam across, and put the island in the middle, tbh.

Heck, if you REALLY want to keep the small partition wall, I'd still say knock it, steel beam, and put in a stud wall. That way, should you ever choose to get rid of the stud wall, you can do so for a small amount, and not have to redo the entire kitchen.

msshono

I think leaving that wall is just going to turn the room into an obstacle course - the room is essentially divided by a sofa, a wall and then a table.

Also I think your room layout will not make best use of your new space either. Your decision on remove/retain should be based on how it impacts Maximising the enjoyment of the space rather than planning the room layout around a wall.

As per your suggested layout, You're going to have people sitting watching tv like theyre in a waiting room staring up at a wall and cut off from the rest of the room, with their backs to the garden you've paid big money to open up your kitchen to viable the sliding door.
Then there's going to be people in & out of a utility room disrupting them watch tv too. And the whole other end of the room will only be used for half an hour a day sitting eating dinner - unless you plan on sitting at the table all evening...

Consider taking down the wall, then putting the Tv on the opposite end wall with an L shaped sofa looking at TV + the sliding doors that way you can maximise comfy lounge space where you can watch tv and/or enjoy the garden while relaxing inside or with the doors open - you'd just need to be careful with dimensions to make sure sofa wouldn't cut off the access in & out of the slide door.

Then put the table up the other end where it's functional but most people sitting at it still get the view out to the garden.

If you don't need an island don't put one in, you can add later if you wanted.

harr

msshono wrote: »

I think leaving that wall is just going to turn the room into an obstacle course - the room is essentially divided by a sofa, a wall and then a table.

Also I think your room layout will not make best use of your new space either. Your decision on remove/retain should be based on how it impacts Maximising the enjoyment of the space rather than planning the room layout around a wall.

As per your suggested layout, You're going to have people sitting watching tv like theyre in a waiting room staring up at a wall and cut off from the rest of the room, with their backs to the garden you've paid big money to open up your kitchen to viable the sliding door.
Then there's going to be people in & out of a utility room disrupting them watch tv too. And the whole other end of the room will only be used for half an hour a day sitting eating dinner - unless you plan on sitting at the table all evening...

Consider taking down the wall, then putting the Tv on the opposite end wall with an L shaped sofa looking at TV + the sliding doors that way you can maximise comfy lounge space where you can watch tv and/or enjoy the garden while relaxing inside or with the doors open - you'd just need to be careful with dimensions to make sure sofa wouldn't cut off the access in & out of the slide door.

Then put the table up the other end where it's functional but most people sitting at it still get the view out to the garden.

If you don't need an island don't put one in, you can add later if you wanted.

Yep definitely remove wall and switch the TV to other wall , very like my own lay out then.
Move table and chairs to less used portion of new build..
Get a nice island installed and that In it’s self will give you plenty of extra storage if needed.
I just think that little bit of wall stuck in middle like that is totally pointless

looksee

Its more than just the strip in the middle, there is all the overhead stuff as well. At the moment it is a wall with two holes in it. If you took the wall up to the ceiling/rsj it would open up the space considerably.

looksee

looksee wrote: »

Its more than just the strip in the middle, there is all the overhead stuff as well. At the moment it is a wall with two holes in it. If you took the wall up to the ceiling/rsj it would open up the space considerably.

How much height/headspace do you generally gain from RSJ'ing it? The lads reckon I'd probably only gain about 3-4inches at most?

msshono wrote: »

I think leaving that wall is just going to turn the room into an obstacle course - the room is essentially divided by a sofa, a wall and then a table.

Also I think your room layout will not make best use of your new space either. Your decision on remove/retain should be based on how it impacts Maximising the enjoyment of the space rather than planning the room layout around a wall.

As per your suggested layout, You're going to have people sitting watching tv like theyre in a waiting room staring up at a wall and cut off from the rest of the room, with their backs to the garden you've paid big money to open up your kitchen to viable the sliding door.
Then there's going to be people in & out of a utility room disrupting them watch tv too. And the whole other end of the room will only be used for half an hour a day sitting eating dinner - unless you plan on sitting at the table all evening...

Consider taking down the wall, then putting the Tv on the opposite end wall with an L shaped sofa looking at TV + the sliding doors that way you can maximise comfy lounge space where you can watch tv and/or enjoy the garden while relaxing inside or with the doors open - you'd just need to be careful with dimensions to make sure sofa wouldn't cut off the access in & out of the slide door.

Then put the table up the other end where it's functional but most people sitting at it still get the view out to the garden.

If you don't need an island don't put one in, you can add later if you wanted.

See, it's probably worth pointing out that there are only 2 people in this house, and one of them (not me) will happily sit watching TV all day, every day.

It's been suggested to me already that the TV is on the wrong wall, but my issue with putting it the other way is that the sliding door is not centred, it's off to one side, and if i put the TV on the other wall, there's less wall space to the side, so i reckon light from outside would be shining in your face, or causing constant glare on the tv (meaning if you want to watch TV at all, you've to close the blinds).

I could be wrong of course, but that's what's in my head.

Delphinium

Get rid, and if not budgeted for I would claw back on appliance or furniture which has a shorter life span. It will always be in your way. as already mentioned, easy to replace if a change is necessary, but taking out must be done now, not later.

BoardsMember

We put in an island, well its technically a peninsula, and it is a great centre for chats and socialising, both with family and when entertaining. Don't underestimate how great an island is as a location to get stuff done while remaining in contact with friends/family. To echo an earlier theme, very few people who have done a kitchen say "I wish I hadn't put in an island".

Knock it!!

the_syco

BoardsMember wrote: »

To echo an earlier theme, very few people who have done a kitchen say "I wish I hadn't put in an island".

The best thing about an island is the ability to face guests that you are entertaining whilst you are preparing food, as opposed to them being behind you. Furthermore, you can watch the tv/sports whilst preparing food.

looksee

Deleted User wrote: »

How much height/headspace do you generally gain from RSJ'ing it? The lads reckon I'd probably only gain about 3-4inches at most?

I'd leave one of the builders on here to give you a more definitive answer, but on the pic it seemed as if there was more than usual depth above the doorways. Even if you only gained 5", by the time the middle is gone and by the look of it you could push one of the outer walls back a bit too, you would have a much more open look.

Howdy do folks.

Just returning to give a heads up, I've decided to keep the wall.

I can afford to remove it, but naturally my money isn't limitless, so I reckon if i keep it, i can spend more elsewhere. Although that's not my main reasoning behind keeping it.

I dragged a sofa from the sitting room into the extension, and made a makeshift table + chairs up and such to simulate roughly what kinda layout I'm heading for (rightly or wrongly) and I'm not as tight for space as I was thinking I would be.

I had it in my head I'd be squeezing past things, not able to comfortably place a table/chairs in the room without having to constantly battle with them and such, but with my 'guesstimate' layout in there and a few hours walking around staring at it, pretending I'm making tea, emptying bins, watching TV etc. I think it works alright for me.

I've actually grown a little fond of it, and i was considering removing it with the option to put a partition wall in if i chose to, but then i was thinking I'd end up spending about 3k to be back to where I am at the moment, which doesn't seem sensible.


I'll post here again in a month when it's (hopefully) decorated, and lived in and will let you know if it's a great success or a huge regret.

Ewan Hoosarmi

Deleted User wrote: »

Howdy do folks.

Just returning to give a heads up, I've decided to keep the wall.

I can afford to remove it, but naturally my money isn't limitless, so I reckon if i keep it, i can spend more elsewhere. Although that's not my main reasoning behind keeping it.

I dragged a sofa from the sitting room into the extension, and made a makeshift table + chairs up and such to simulate roughly what kinda layout I'm heading for (rightly or wrongly) and I'm not as tight for space as I was thinking I would be.

I had it in my head I'd be squeezing past things, not able to comfortably place a table/chairs in the room without having to constantly battle with them and such, but with my 'guesstimate' layout in there and a few hours walking around staring at it, pretending I'm making tea, emptying bins, watching TV etc. I think it works alright for me.

I've actually grown a little fond of it, and i was considering removing it with the option to put a partition wall in if i chose to, but then i was thinking I'd end up spending about 3k to be back to where I am at the moment, which doesn't seem sensible.


I'll post here again in a month when it's (hopefully) decorated, and lived in and will let you know if it's a great success or a huge regret.

I think you're making a mistake keeping the wall. All it will do is block light and get in the way. Open up the space and let the light flow through. My €0,02.

harr

Ewan Hoosarmi wrote: »

I think you're making a mistake keeping the wall. All it will do is block light and get in the way. Open up the space and let the light flow through. My €0,02.

Agree with above....I would even get rid of wall and if you are really sure you want a bit of a wall stick up a stud one.
So much easier to get rid of now when the kitchen is being done rather than going tearing down supporting wall in a finished kitchen.
Your choice at end of day and you are the one who will have to live with it

shakencat

island for the win

Well my thinking in terms of taking it down and putting in a stud wall is that the cost to do that is gonna run about 2,800 i think (give or take). If I decide to do it in 6 months (when the kitchen is in), it'll not cost a whole heap more. I'll have to lift the floor and put it down again to fill the gap (but im going with laminate so that should be easy enough), and plaster over the newly broken hole in my ceiling, but i reckon, at most, it'll cost about 1,500 extra.

It seems like a gamble worth taking, seen as im not so 'against' the wall at the moment. Spending up to 3k to tear it out and put a stud wall in its place seems like a little bit of wreckless spending (whereas spending 4k knowing that i definitely want it gone, makes more sense.. albeit, it comes with more messing about and inconvenience).

Thats my line of thinking anyway.

cheif kaiser

Not the greatest job in the world but might give you a better idea what it would be like without the wall.