Spring coil

Anspinc

I had my car serviced pre nct. it subsequenstly failed cos of a broken spring coil.
Should my mechanic have seen that in advance? He says nct have a labrascope which will pick up this fault, but it's not something he could have seen.

Am I being conned? Should my mechanic have seen it?

part €45 Labour_+part all in €110.

Toyotafanboi

The price sounds fair and the failure sound believable. You are not being conned.

Should the mechanic have spotted it? Yes, ideally. He may have missed it or it may have happened between his inspection and the test.

Often when springs break they can just lose an inch or two of the end of the coil which can be easy to miss if giving the car a quick eye over as it's far less conspicuous than a spring that has snapped in half.

Either way I suppose, your spring is broken and you need a new one.

Neilw

Whats a labrascope?

VeVeX

Neilw wrote: »

Whats a labrascope?

Its a mirror on the end of a shortend ash stick, normally used to inspect the undercarriage of a pregnant labrador.

Riva10

https://www.google.ie/search?q=labrascope&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&client=firefox-b&gws_rd=cr&dcr=0&ei=N3wlWon3O4rXgAa6g6-wAQ

Cee-Jay-Cee

If you didn't report any problems with your suspension or mentioned any strange noises then no the mechanic shouldn't have been expected to spot the broken spring. In most cases the top coil or two breaks and so they can be difficult to spot.

You said you had the car serviced before the NCT, you don't mention anything about asking or paying for the car to be checked from top to bottom to spot any potential fails. When I bring a car to a mechanic (which is very rare as I do most work myself) I tell them what I want done.

You cant bring a car to a garage to have it serviced (oil, filter, plugs etc) and then complain that they didn't spot a broken spring.

Toyotafanboi

The only thing is never mind from an upselling point of view, if for nothing else than a liability point of view a mechanic should (and the vast majority do) do a quick visual check over of the entire car with every car they touch.

wotzgoingon

Cee-Jay-Cee wrote: »

You said you had the car serviced before the NCT, you don't mention anything about asking or paying for the car to be checked from top to bottom to spot any potential fails. When I bring a car to a mechanic (which is very rare as I do most work myself) I tell them what I want done.

You cant bring a car to a garage to have it serviced (oil, filter, plugs etc) and then complain that they didn't spot a broken spring.

Toyotafanboi wrote: »

The only thing is never mind from an upselling point of view, if for nothing else than a liability point of view a mechanic should (and the vast majority do) do a quick visual check over of the entire car with every car they touch.

The post I quoted above yours happens more often than what you said Toyotafanboi.

Anspinc

@cee-jay-cee. Nobody's complaining. You should re-read my original post. I am merely asking questions. As for the question surrounding service, I requested a service in advance of an NCT and was advised this counts as a full service. Obviously I don't know what's involved other than the basics.

Stoolbend

How long before the NCT did you have the service?

Could it have broken afterwards?

If it was broken before the service it should 100% have been spotted.

If that happened in our place we always give a cheque for the retest fee.

Most garages don't have the brake testers or suspension testers that the NCT so at the very least they should use their eyes.

Often you'll be able to feel the end of the spring if it's awkward to see. A good spring will have a flat end. A break is almost always at an angle.

Audioslaven

Anspinc wrote: »

@cee-jay-cee. Nobody's complaining. You should re-read my original post. I am merely asking questions. As for the question surrounding service, I requested a service in advance of an NCT and was advised this counts as a full service. Obviously I don't know what's involved other than the basics.

In future send your car in for the NCT without anyone looking at it. You will get an idea on where the issues are.

khaldrogo

Cee-Jay-Cee wrote:

You cant bring a car to a garage to have it serviced (oil, filter, plugs etc) and then complain that they didn't spot a broken spring.

As a qualified mechanic and a garage manager I disagree. Despite what Joe public thinks a service is not just oil, air, plugs. A comprehensive check over of the vehicle is a part of a full if done by a mechanic who has pride in their work.

Audioslaven

khaldrogo wrote: »

As a qualified mechanic and a garage manager I disagree. Despite what Joe public thinks a service is not just oil, air, plugs. A comprehensive check over of the vehicle is a part of a full if done by a mechanic who has pride in their work.

In fairness, you could easily miss a spring broken especially if a small bit comes off the end and then falls out. You would not feel much difference on the suspension from driving. Granted one could feel if the spring is lined up on the correct groove but unless a qualified mechanic is putting these cars up on machines like the NCT have, a qualified mechanic is not going to spot everything. They can test the common parts for failure but the NCT is more detailed on differences between sides.
I think the OP going on about been conned is OTT and gives the wrong impression.

khaldrogo

Audioslaven wrote:

In fairness, you could easily miss a spring broken especially if a small bit comes off the end and then falls out. You would not feel much difference on the suspension from driving. Granted one could feel if the spring is lined up on the correct groove but unless a qualified mechanic is putting these cars up on machines like the NCT have, a qualified mechanic is not going to spot everything. They can test the common parts for failure but the NCT is more detailed on differences between sides. I think the OP going on about been conned is OTT and gives the wrong impression.

A broken spring is detected by sight in the NCT. No special machines needed.

On some cars, particularly on the rear spring, the last coil or 2 are well hidden so you have to fish around to check properly.

Audioslaven

khaldrogo wrote: »

A broken spring is detected by sight in the NCT. No special machines needed.

On some cars, particularly on the rear spring, the last coil or 2 are well hidden so you have to fish around to check properly.

But the NCT machine would show an imbalance even if there was a slight break in the spring and not noticed by the driver. This would lead them to the spring/shocks so they are getting more information with their equipment and then looking at the spring/shocks.

CianRyan

When I'm doing a service, be it in work or at home I always do a full health check and a written report for the customer and myself.
I do always check little things like springs but in a busy garage you can miss something, especially if it's as small as a bit of the coil snapped at the end, a severely damaged coil spring wouldn't even have to be put on a ramp to be diagnosed.

But hey, there are cowboys on both sides.
For example, my sisters cat failed the NCT on a track rod end which was replaced with an OEM part for the retest. On the retest the same unit was marked as failed. Your man's face dropped when he was shown the old part and reciept for the new one.
On the otherside, I serviced a car a couple of weeks back and noted a bad lower ball joint, the customer was informed and decided to not have the work done. He went to the NCT, fail on exactly that part and came back in going mental because he claimed we should have spotted it. He was then reminded that he was given a full report print out and was shown the video of me showing him exactly what was wrong with the car, he hadn't a leg to stand on... Honestly, who's trying to con a few quid in that situation? :rolleyes:

One motto for work, Cover Your Ass! In more than one way if possible.

khaldrogo

Audioslaven wrote:

But the NCT machine would show an imbalance even if there was a slight break in the spring and not noticed by the driver. This would lead them to the spring/shocks so they are getting more information with their equipment and then looking at the spring/shocks.

A broken coil with say the last inch being broken will cause 0 imbalance.
The particular machine you're thinking of is more for shocks. If the spring was snapped in half or missing it would show up but most broken springs IME are an inch or two broken at the bottom.

khaldrogo

CianRyan wrote:

One motto for work, Cover Your Ass! In more than one way if possible.

This basically sums up working in the motor trade these days.

Cosmo K

Audioslaven wrote: »

But the NCT machine would show an imbalance even if there was a slight break in the spring and not noticed by the driver. .

No it wouldn't.

barneygumble99

Any garage that can't spot a broken coil spring, corroded brake pipes, cut flexi brake pipes, exhaust leaks and all visual items during a pre nct check really needs to have a think about what they're doing.
No excuse for missing a front coil spring, yeah back ones can be a little bit harder to see but a lot easier for a mechanic in a garage with the wheels off the car.