High mileage Legacy diesel, yay or nay?

Pique

I've my eye on a 2012 Outback with 145k miles on it. FSH, DPF replaced/reconditioned (not sure which) for sale about €10k.

I'm sorely tempted. It's a high spec model but that means damn all if the thing costs a ton to maintain.

What are high mileage EURO5 Scooby Diesels like for reliability? I'' be doing probably 16k+ miles a year for the next couple of years and then I'll be looking to offload around mid-late 2020.


I already own an XV with low miles and I love it but a second wagon is required and I do like Subarus having previoualy had an MY01 S/Tb. I especially want the AWD. Not a great fan of the Skoda 4x4 equivalents available and the Volvos with AWD are beautiful but out of my price bracket.

Sooo, I had a dealer tell me he's had Foresters with 300k kms with no engine problems so with regular oil changes the engine seems reliable. IS this true? What about suspension components. My old Alfa 159 has gone through wishbones like they were on the Sunday roast chicken.
Also, would I be able to flog an 8-9 year old Outback with nigh on 200k miles when the time comes?
What say you guys?

Steve

If you keep it long enough, you'll benefit by not being taxed to death on the coal and peat powered EV's when they bring in the new power station transmission tax....

Seriously though, Foresters go forever, I'd seriously consider it given it's hi spec.

Esel

I thought the Subaru diesel engine has a very bad reputation (here anyway).

Pique

Yeah but it's an Outback, not a Forester. Same engine but the rest is probably fairly different or do they use the same chassis like the Impreza and XV?

Electric transmission tax? That's a new one on me. Considering we're gonna be raped by Europe for not coming within an asses roar of the emissions limits for 2020 I'd expect low tax diesels to become high tax diesels first.

Then I can maybe look at a Model 3.

AFAIK the Euro4 subaru diesels had a habit of lunching themselves but not the Euro5. Hence why I'm asking about the overall longevity of these yokes.

Steve

I could be wrong...

Thought they fixed the issues on the boxer D on the 2012 version.. (apart from the DPF, which the OP says was replaced)

No expert on this, just what I've read..

ABC101

I would imagine a 2012 Outback would be the same reliability (other than engine) as previous Outback's / Subaru's.

I think the 2012 has double wishbone suspension all round, I think it was for comfort rather than anything else.

As for the engine, there have been concerns with crankshaft failures, however I believe this is on the older engines (euro 4) which have a slightly higher compression ratio 16.3:1. The Subaru Boxer diesel has been out for almost 10 years, there are a number of high milers around but they may be sales / reps cars, diesels love motorways. I think most dealerships / Subaru service centres have gotten more familiar with the boxer diesel and it's various nuances etc.

Euro 5 engines have DPF filters and slightly lower compression ratio 16:1.

Other factors such as internal bluetooth connectivity / instrumentation (reversing camera) layout may affect your decision to go pre or post 2012.

Another factor is injector changing, which on older models involves engine out job as the wheel arches are in the way. I am open to correction but I believe new models have gotten around this issue. I would imagine the Denso injectors should have been replaced around 100K miles give or take.

As for the value of a car at 200K miles and close to 10 years... regardless of make... I think you are looking at a very low market price. With cost of credit being low, most people stay away from high mileage cars and go for cars sub 100K miles. Even if the car is good for another 200K miles, the majority just do not want to know.

Performance wise, the diesel Outback is not a fast machine, 9.7 seconds or thereabouts, so it is not going to put a smile on your face. More a motorway kitten.

All in I am getting 51 mpg combined, but that is with careful driving, which is not bad for a AWD jeep type. Given fuel costs are only going one way and that is up, you may want a more economical car?

Other factors is FSH, was the clutch replaced recently, is the car from a reputable dealer, was it sold by the dealer originally, serviced by the dealer. All these factors can help to give a degree of confidence from both the dealer and to the buyer. Is the dealer offering a warranty, 6M or 12M?

There are a few horror stories out there, but if you dig deep enough, there are horror stories about almost every make / manufacturer.

Subaru parts can be expensive, on the plus side, they don't tend to require much in the way of spares as the overall reliability is good.

On another point, I would imagine Ford is probably the fastest for getting spare parts of all manufacturers for Ireland.

Pique

Thanks for the informative post. It was sold and serviced by the garage for the last 25k miles I believe. Not a subaru dealer and they outsourced the dpf job to some place in Monaghan.

My other alternative is a low low mileage (60k miles} Impreza 2010 for the same price. Probably easier to sell in 2-3 years but not a patch on the Outback.

No idea if clutch was done. Should have asked as the release bearing on my XV is squeaking at 30k miles. Even within warranty Subaru told me to swing for it. Obviously a rare occurrence but a Ã႒¢â€šÂ¬400 clutch job is a one off. I'm more concerned with having to replace the entire suspension (or God forbid the bloody engine) in the next 12 months. Apparently the wishbone bushes were done {prob only front) on the Outback. Plus the nct was just passed in Oct till Oct 19.

You guys are making me think this might not be such a bad idea.

Compared to driving a boggo standard Impreza with low miles and a higher resale I suppose the question comes down to do I want to put up with bland small cabin for 2-3 years with the possibility of a couple of grand more in resale.

If the Outback is reliable then the question is answered.

Potayto, potahto.

BTW, I get about 50mpg in the XV at 60mph on N roads and 42mpg at 75mph on motorways. 51 combined is nothing to sniff at. The higher body of the XV obviously doesn't help economy.

ABC101

The Outback is higher than the Impreza, if you are getting in / out a lot and suffer from back injuries etc, then the higher suspension may be a factor. Not sure if the Outback is higher than the XV, might not be?

TBH, I prefer going to a garage which knows the car, perhaps having sold the car from new, serviced it regularly, maintained it and knows the owner.

Carroll & Roche at Newland's cross have a few Outbacks, which may be in your price range, in addition there is a 2011 (euro4) Outback in Bray. But again there may be other factors such as warranty offered with the car which may suit etc.

Euro 4 engines have slightly higher taxation, 570e as against Euro 5 engines at 390e, very little in it really, but euro 4 don't have the dreaded DPF filter.

Coincidently the Euro 6 engine Outback is about 570e motor tax, but that is because of the CVT transmission (open to correction) and perhaps the slightly lower compression ratio of 15.7:1 affecting economy (again open to correction from a poster who knows better etc).

Another option might be some of the Honda's, CRV etc... might be worthwhile having a look there too. Honda make some great engines, not sure what their diesels are like, but Honda is known for being good, however AWD system would not be as good as the Subaru (IMO).

pete4130

Having owned a 2003 2.5 Forester XS bought with 187,000km (in Australia) I would not recommend buying an older/high km model. They are so expensive to repair. Granted Aussie prices and labour costs are more than here but even simple things are expensive.

My diff bearing went. This happens when people use different size tyres on the AWD system or when the car does lots of donuts. Guts of $1500

With the boxer engine, if the head gasket goes, you've got 2 to do because of the design.

The O2 sensor went in mine. another very expensive repair. $800

The clutch in the older model manuals wear around the centre after about 80,000km and become very heavy to use. It's a common problem. A friend with a 2009 diesel model (in Ireland) said his is also very heavy now. $1500

My ECU played up and the engine would idle erratically and again it was an expensive repair. $800

The radiator on mine was a plastic topped radiator and the seal between the metal and plastic is prone to go. Another $800ish

The newer Subarus use a much smaller compressor for the air conditioner and these wear out much faster than older models and are hard to find used replacements (in Australia at least).

I will say that it was a really great car to drive. Fantastic grip, felt solid, spacious and comfortable. I just could never get another Subaru again.

ABC101

pete4130 wrote: »

Having owned a 2003 2.5 Forester XS bought with 187,000km (in Australia) I would not recommend buying an older/high km model. They are so expensive to repair. Granted Aussie prices and labour costs are more than here but even simple things are expensive.

My diff bearing went. This happens when people use different size tyres on the AWD system or when the car does lots of donuts. Guts of $1500

With the boxer engine, if the head gasket goes, you've got 2 to do because of the design.

The O2 sensor went in mine. another very expensive repair. $800

The clutch in the older model manuals wear around the centre after about 80,000km and become very heavy to use. It's a common problem. A friend with a 2009 diesel model (in Ireland) said his is also very heavy now. $1500

My ECU played up and the engine would idle erratically and again it was an expensive repair. $800

The radiator on mine was a plastic topped radiator and the seal between the metal and plastic is prone to go. Another $800ish

The newer Subarus use a much smaller compressor for the air conditioner and these wear out much faster than older models and are hard to find used replacements (in Australia at least).

I will say that it was a really great car to drive. Fantastic grip, felt solid, spacious and comfortable. I just could never get another Subaru again.

Fair bit of info there, sorry to hear about various issues.

Definitevly agree with the importance of tyres being the same, in addition at each service the tyres should be swapped around (front to the back and back to the front). That way you have even wear all round. However that is a known requirement with any AwD system with a centre diff. Put different tyres on a truck and it’s centre diff will fail too.

In addition Subaru’s can’t be towed, they have to be shifted on a flat bed, worth remembering if you break down.

Radiators with plastic headers, they can fail with age / or highly stressed engines ( heat/ big turbos) but that happens across all manufacturers not just Subaru. However I would criticize Subaru in fitting a plastic header rad, they are not as good as metal header etc.

As for the head gasket, being a boxer a lot of items are doubled up, two timing chains, four camshafts etc.

The older petrol EJ engines some of them did have leaky head gaskets ( poor design) but I believe that was sorted with a change in material. The parts were cheap but Labour high as a lot of stuff had to be taken off the engine to get to the head gasket. There is info on the web about it if you search.

As for the other issues O2 sensor / ECU I cant comment. But I would say parts do seem to be expensive as compared to other makes.

I think the important issue is to get a good genuine car, with a known FSH and has been looked after well by a responsible owner.

Any car which has been used and abused can give serious trouble rapidly turning into a deep money pit.

From what you have mentioned OP, I’m not sure about the Outback you were describing, I’d much prefer to go to a Subaru dealer who knows the car well and when something goes wrong does not send the car off to somebody else for major work.

The AwD Subaru’s are a bit more complex than your traditional in line 4 pot, so I’d tend to go with a Subaru dealer who knows the car well etc.

Pique

ABC101 wrote: »

Fair bit of info there, 

All of it about a different car, with a different engine, running different fuel that's 9 years older.
I'm sorry, but absolutely none of that post is relevant to what I asked.

ABC101

Pique wrote: »

All of it about a different car, with a different engine, running different fuel that's 9 years older.
I'm sorry, but absolutely none of that post is relevant to what I asked.

Sorry Pique, but are you referring to Pete or me or both?

Pique

ABC101 wrote: »

Pique wrote: »

All of it about a different car, with a different engine, running different fuel that's 9 years older.
I'm sorry, but absolutely none of that post is relevant to what I asked.

Sorry Pique, but are you referring to Pete or me or both?

Pete. I was just using your quote and adding onto it.
Fair bit of info from Pete of his woes but with a completely different machine.

pete4130

I think some of it is relevant regarding the costs. I got to know my indy Subaru specialist very well and he'd talk about the issues of the newer Subaru. Being an older vehicle doesn't change that they are expensive to repair when they do go wrong.

The technology of the Symmetrical awd system is fundamentally the same with all Subaru's so there is commonality with that.

In the end, for me I had the option to spend $2000 on repairs or trade it in for $2000 against a new Toyota Fortuner. It made sense to trade it in.

ABC101

Best of luck anyway Pique, I'm sure you'll make the right decision in the end.

If you get it at a good price, then even if you have to put a bit of money into it over the ownership period then it will be worth it.

The fact that the DPF is done, if the injectors and clutch are too and perhaps other consumables (brake discs, pads, tyres etc ) then you should get another 60K out of it o.k