Is it possible to buy a gas hob without electrical flame failure safety feature?

firkin

I have a Fisher & Paykel gas hob. It's about 8 years old, and its a piece of cr*p. It's regularly cutting out or not staring. And it's always been like that. I've had the electrics replaced a year ago and its no better. In fact its worse. So I'm going to replace it. Is it possible to buy a gas hob with out any electric flame failure system? On top of being a pain for regular use, in a power failure your gas hob doesn't work. No electric, no gas hob! I had to buy a camping hob in Aldi just for power cuts (which works brilliantly, no electrics and super fine control over the flame). Any ideas much appreciated.

coylemj

I've never heard of that feature. I have a Neff gas hob which has a heat sensor on each burner and it will cut off the gas if the flame goes out because of a liquid spillage or if there's a sudden draught from the back door but there is no active electrical component that relies on power to keep the gas flowing. In case of a power cut, all I need is the cigarette lighter I keep in a nearby drawer.

aujopimur

All gas appliances must have flame failure devices, some do require electricity to work.

coylemj

aujopimur wrote: »

All gas appliances must have flame failure devices, some do require electricity to work.

That's mad Ted.

Means you need gas and electricity to boil a feckin' egg!

Single point of failure squared.

brightspark

aujopimur wrote: »

All gas appliances must have flame failure devices, some do require electricity to work.

My back up plan is to use a small AC inverter supplied from the car. Hasn't happened yet luckily.

Something like this. (But mine came from Aldi I think)


https://uk.rs-online.com/web/p/dc-ac-car-power-inverters/7350706/

The flame failure circuitry isn't likely to need much power.

xl500

Well as far as I know some Hobs need no Electric for Flame Failure to work they need Electric to Generate Spark For ignition but I think Flame Sensor Thermocouple works independently

You can test this by switching off power to Hob and try lighting it with a match and see if it works

The spark igniter doesn't have to be mains powered, there are some cookers that have battery operated spark generators and some that have the basic piezoelectric spark crystal that just needs a good push on the button.

xl500

xl500 wrote: »

Well as far as I know some Hobs need no Electric for Flame Failure to work they need Electric to Generate Spark For ignition but I think Flame Sensor Thermocouple works independently

You can test this by switching off power to Hob and try lighting it with a match and see if it works

Yes the thermocouples are connected directly to the gas inlet to the burner and shuts when cold, that's why you need to press the burner button for a few seconds to override it while it heats up and opens

tooManyChoices

As said above, your hob should be able to start any time by lighting it with a lighter and keeping it pressed in for a few seconds with the flame on. TBH, I wouldn't even worry about this

The cutting out sounds odd though? Any idea what's causing it?

Sounds like you just got a bum unit/model. I'd be amazed if any replacement unit caused you this much trouble (except not starting without a lighter, but again I'd just accept that)

firkin

coylemj wrote: »

I have a Neff gas hob which has a heat sensor on each burner and it will cut off the gas if the flame goes out. In case of a power cut, all I need is the cigarette lighter I keep in a nearby drawer.

Interesting. How does it cut off the gas if it doesn't use electricity?

coylemj wrote: »

That's mad Ted.

Means you need gas and electricity to boil a feckin' egg!

Single point of failure squared.

Such a f*&king pain you wouldn't believe it. The old school gas hobs were fine. Perfectly safe.

xl500 wrote: »

You can test this by switching off power to Hob and try lighting it with a match and see if it works

No with the Fisher & Paykel there is some kind of heavy duty relay switch that controls the gas input. You can hear it disengage when the electricity is gone. It kills it completely. I guess some kind of electromagnet job.

tooManyChoices wrote: »

As said above, your hob should be able to start any time by lighting it with a lighter

That would be perfect. But it definitely doesn't work like that with the Fisher Paykel. Thats the way I thought they all worked. Until I had this one bought and installed. I couldn't believe it. 8 years later I still can't believe it! If I could get my hands on the designer/Health and Safety official who came up with the design...

Deleted User wrote: »

Yes the thermocouples are connected directly to the gas inlet to the burner and shuts when cold, that's why you need to press the burner button for a few seconds to override it while it heats up and opens

On the up side it seems like it is still possible to get a gas hob that will work in a power cut.

Any brands ye'd recommend?

I for one would avoid Fisher & Paykel like the plague. They look great..but that counts for nothing if it doesn't work.

The Red Ace

what your F/P hob has extra is a solenoid valve akin to a washing machine water valve for added extra safety, ok a pain maybe if you have no mains supply occasionally but overall very safe, F/P are not the only manufacturers that used this system

firkin

I forgot to mention that if one burner has an 'issue' the four others are all cut off too!

And I should clarify that the sensors that detect if the burner has been blown out are rubbish. A burner would be lit perfectly fine, then out of the blue, click-click-click, its trying to ignite an already lit burner. Then clunk, the solenoid cuts in and all burners go out.

It's a f@&king nightmare. Its a form of torture.
And all the sensors are like that. Its not just one dodgey one.

The Red Ace

from your last description of the problem it is the pcb controller that's at issue even though you say it was replaced last year,(maybe with a used one) the problem within that board is a dodgy relay. if you have somebody near you with electronic experience the component can be replaced for less than a tenner component cost, they are normally orange in colour and the part number will finish with digits 024, its not thermocouple failure.