FastNed starts deployment of 175kW Rapids

cros13

FastNed has introduced it's first publically available 175kW ABB Rapids at three of it's NL rapid charging stations.
ABB has dropped AC43 support on all future rapids. Chademo on them is limited to 50kW. CCS supports up to 175kW.

Support among current EVs:
Ioniq charges 50% faster than on a 50kW
Ampera-e charges 20% faster than on a 50kW.

And of course a lot of the new EVs due out this year have support for 100-175kW rapid charging.

lol little use to us , what the bet any future installed DC chargers here will be 45-50 Kw ?

ELM327

INteresting to see AC43 dropped.
This is the reason I'd be against getting a "Q" ZE40 zoe, there will not be any further installations of fast AC and you'll be limiting yourself to slow AC.

AC as a technology is not easily scalable for charging above 43kW. And this post shows that.

cros13

Well most Zoe's now are sold with 22kW chargers not AC43. And of course Renault have announced all their future cars starting in 2019 will use CCS.

ELM327

Yes I know that.
CCS and 22kW AC would be a great car to have here. And will be in the future too. A car with only AC will be less so. That was my point really. Any 22kWh Zoe drivers will be affected also.

cros13

Sure, but CCS is the future.... and in the majority of markets public 22kW three-phase is rare. As a result even Tesla has dropped support for 22kW capping three phase support at 16.5kW.

It's nearly 2018 and we're still in the dark about our charging infrastructure and even if they install new chargers it will be a slow process, it's really not looking good.

We need proper charging facilities, with minimum of 4 chargers on site and 100+ Kw for future proofing.

KCross

The Low Emission Vehicle Taskforce held a stakeholder meeting last week to seek input from interested parties where all that input was given.

There appears to be money available (double of EV budget from €5m to €10m in the budget) and some of that will be used to put in new rapids and they have been given the input around multiple chargers per site, proper locations, higher powered units etc. They know whats required.

Hopefully they now take that input and give a good recommendation to the minister but no doubt it will take time to identify sites, get planning, source chargers, tender the installs etc etc. It will take time but the wheel is in motion. My guess is it will happen in the latter half of 2018.

They also have their eye on off-street charging. They realise that is a key issue for a lot of people. Asking them to buy 60kWh cars or travel to a rapid isn't viable.

Hopefully they get the finger out soon, and hopefully by the time it comes for me to change in 3 years things will be a lot different.

Dardania

KCross wrote: »

The Low Emission Vehicle Taskforce held a stakeholder meeting last week to seek input from interested parties where all that input was given.

There appears to be money available (double of EV budget from €5m to €10m in the budget) and some of that will be used to put in new rapids and they have been given the input around multiple chargers per site, proper locations, higher powered units etc. They know whats required.

Hopefully they now take that input and give a good recommendation to the minister but no doubt it will take time to identify sites, get planning, source chargers, tender the installs etc etc. It will take time but the wheel is in motion. My guess is it will happen in the latter half of 2018.

They also have their eye on off-street charging. They realise that is a key issue for a lot of people. Asking them to buy 60kWh cars or travel to a rapid isn't viable.

Good - every consultation that comes up I make this point.
I'd seriously support leasing these civil servants EVs to get a feel for it - would be money well spent

KCross

Deleted User wrote: »

Hopefully they get the finger out soon, and hopefully by the time it comes for me to change in 3 years things will be a lot different.

It will. They seem committed and the money is there. Its just how best to spend it and of course the elephant in the room of what do they do with the current network.... CRU are still awaiting eCars to come back with a plan for that. I was speaking with the CRU guy and he said there will be a decision on that "soon".

Dardania wrote: »

Good - every consultation that comes up I make this point.
I'd seriously support leasing these civil servants EVs to get a feel for it - would be money well spent

The civil servant driving the working group has got loaners of various EV's and used the network and mentioned people abusing the network instead of home charging!... so again, they know whats going on and whats required.... just that the cogs of government turn slowly and they really should have done this whole consultation thing back in 2016 at least.

It is what it is now, we just have to wait for the consultation to complete, a recommendation to go to the minister and him to signoff on a plan on how/where/who to spend the money.

KCross

First of the Fastned 350kW ABB chargers up and running in Amsterdam.

https://fastned-en.pr.co/en-GB/164338-fastned-reveals-new-generation-of-fast-charging-stations


They still install Chademo as well (see the Leaf hidden at the back!) but obviously limited to 50kW.

Hopefully we get something like this in the not too distant future.

BoatMad

KCross wrote: »

The Low Emission Vehicle Taskforce held a stakeholder meeting last week to seek input from interested parties where all that input was given.

There appears to be money available (double of EV budget from €5m to €10m in the budget) and some of that will be used to put in new rapids and they have been given the input around multiple chargers per site, proper locations, higher powered units etc. They know whats required.

Hopefully they now take that input and give a good recommendation to the minister but no doubt it will take time to identify sites, get planning, source chargers, tender the installs etc etc. It will take time but the wheel is in motion. My guess is it will happen in the latter half of 2018.

They also have their eye on off-street charging. They realise that is a key issue for a lot of people. Asking them to buy 60kWh cars or travel to a rapid isn't viable.

I was at that, ask me anything relevant if you want to know what was said

KCross

BoatMad wrote: »

I was at that, ask me anything relevant if you want to know what was said

I was too!

Calahonda52

KCross wrote: »

First of the Fastned 350kW ABB chargers up and running in Amsterdam.

https://fastned-en.pr.co/en-GB/164338-fastned-reveals-new-generation-of-fast-charging-stations


They still install Chademo as well (see the Leaf hidden at the back!) but obviously limited to 50kW.

Hopefully we get something like this in the not too distant future.

It will be labelled SlowNed:)

ELM327

BoatMad wrote: »

I was at that, ask me anything relevant if you want to know what was said

KCross wrote: »

I was too!

AWKWARD

Was there not a little corner for the EV boards posters?

BoatMad

KCross wrote: »

First of the Fastned 350kW ABB chargers up and running in Amsterdam.

https://fastned-en.pr.co/en-GB/164338-fastned-reveals-new-generation-of-fast-charging-stations


They still install Chademo as well (see the Leaf hidden at the back!) but obviously limited to 50kW.

Hopefully we get something like this in the not too distant future.

I wouldn't hold my breath, until the ownership of the current system is decided , I suspect little will happen

thierry14

ELM327 wrote: »

AWKWARD

Not at all

BoatMad was probably sleeping through it again lol 😂

KCross

ELM327 wrote: »

AWKWARD

Was there not a little corner for the EV boards posters?

It was groups of about 10 tasked with discussing various topics that were pre-determined for us.

Each table then had an opportunity to address the room with its outcomes and they took our notes/answers away with them as well.

I dont think I had any boardsies at my table.... I had Nissan, CRU, SSE Airtricity, a Govt rep and one or two others that I cant now remember.

It was an interesting few hours to be honest.

KCross

BoatMad wrote: »

I wouldn't hold my breath, until the ownership of the current system is decided , I suspect little will happen

That decision is due "soon" though. I think eCars were given 6 months to come back with options? That time is up shortly.

BoatMad

KCross wrote: »

That decision is due "soon" though. I think eCars were given 6 months to come back with options? That time is up shortly.

thats 6 months to provide a report ( which to my knowledge there are as of christmas , stalling on )

there is no definite timescale on disposal

KCross

BoatMad wrote: »

thats 6 months to provide a report ( which to my knowledge there are as of christmas , stalling on )

Im sure they are. After all, their preferred option is to keep the thing so producing this report is not in their best interests at all.

BoatMad wrote: »

there is no definite timescale on disposal

Correct, the report might recommend that it stays as is until its commercially viable to sell, which could/will be years.

However, that doesnt have to stop the rollout of these 175-350kW type chargers. I dont think the eCars decision and that have to be necessarily linked.

BoatMad

However, that doesnt have to stop the rollout of these 175-350kW type chargers. I dont think the eCars decision and that have to be necessarily linked.

No but I suspect a commercial l entity will wish to have the commercial landscape clarified before it commits significant capital

KCross

BoatMad wrote: »

No but I suspect a commercial l entity will wish to have the commercial landscape clarified before it commits significant capital

Agreed, I would be surprised if that clarity isnt given in the next few months though.... I'm only guessing based on what the CRU guy said to me at that stakeholder meeting.

Who knows, eCars have a lot of power, excuse the pun, when it comes to Govt and CRU.

I think its clear the govt want to deploy new rapid chargers asap so I suspect they will push forward one way or the other.

And it appears the likes of Ionity are going to deploy here anyway so that will also hopefully drive developments as the current network is getting older as the days tick on.

BoatMad

KCross wrote: »

Agreed, I would be surprised if that clarity isnt given in the next few months though.... I'm only guessing based on what the CRU guy said to me at that stakeholder meeting.

Who knows, eCars have a lot of power, excuse the pun, when it comes to Govt and CRU.

I think its clear the govt want to deploy new rapid chargers asap so I suspect they will push forward one way or the other.

And it appears the likes of Ionity are going to deploy here anyway so that will also hopefully drive developments as the current network is getting older as the days tick on.

I certainly think there will be " limited " FCP , toe in the water commercial development late in 2018 ,

I dont think we will see any resolution of the current network until late 2018 or 2019 at the very least , There will most likely have to be a full EU tender process, thats 6 months at the very fastest

what we will see in 2018 , is ESBN pricing policy as per the CRU funding demand , I expect that before the summer

ELM327

Was there any indication given as to what the pricing may be, or if it included fast and standard (ie FCP and SCP) uses?

@Boatmad - I agree with your timescales, I don't foresee that charging will be free at the end of 2018.

BoatMad

ELM327 wrote: »

Was there any indication given as to what the pricing may be, or if it included fast and standard (ie FCP and SCP) uses?

@Boatmad - I agree with your timescales, I don't foresee that charging will be free at the end of 2018.

NO , not a peep , One senses ( and that is all it is) that the irish public charger network is of little concern to ESB Group generally . My reading is they have walked away from it.

so it could be that they may never get a proper pricing scheme this side of disposal in place, a pricing scheme will require significant IT investment, call centre investment etc etc . why would you spend money on a network you dont and may not own in the future

It could well be that disposal comes before pricing in my view, it may cost ESBN more money then its worth to bring in a pricing model

howver they do now have access to a " technology fund " from the CRU , that could be used to find the capital costs of a pricing scheme ,


we wil see.

ELM327

Surely all that's needed is a billing system? They would have a CRM of sorts already with the cards, names, addresses etc. I'd imagine that should not cost much, could even be outsourced.

KCross

ELM327 wrote: »

Surely all that's needed is a billing system? They would have a CRM of sorts already with the cards, names, addresses etc. I'd imagine that should not cost much, could even be outsourced.

They spent a lot of money on IT systems already.

I'd be surprised if they don't already have the majority of the IT infrastructure already in place for billing.

Whether the whole thing can wash its face though is very debatable. Its hard to see how anyone can make money out of the current network with its old chargers, bad locations and inability to expand in most of those locations.

It really needs a new network to be developed and properly planned this time.

BoatMad

KCross wrote: »

They spent a lot of money on IT systems already.

I'd be surprised if they don't already have the majority of the IT infrastructure already in place for billing.

Whether the whole thing can wash its face though is very debatable. Its hard to see how anyone can make money out of the current network with its old chargers, bad locations and inability to expand in most of those locations.

It really needs a new network to be developed and properly planned this time.

they do not have the system in place ( as of 2017) to implement billing , there are significant issues to be resolved . The current IT system is a hedge lodge of solutions and bought in CRM

BoatMad

and the point remains , why would ESBN invest in a network they may not own ( and is rapidly getting technically obsolete ) . the more the hiatus continues, the less likely the system has any value at all ( and little commercial revenue generating value either ) and is most likely to be unloaded at a knock down cost.

in reality we need to forgot about the current system

Dardania

BoatMad wrote: »

and the point remains , why would ESBN invest in a network they may not own ( and is rapidly getting technically obsolete ) . the more the hiatus continues, the less likely the system has any value at all ( and little commercial revenue generating value either ) and is most likely to be unloaded at a knock down cost.

in reality we need to forgot about the current system

Brand recognition? Has to have some value?

KCross

BoatMad wrote: »

they do not have the system in place ( as of 2017) to implement billing , there are significant issues to be resolved . The current IT system is a hedge lodge of solutions and bought in CRM

Their report is BS then!

The over-all design is inherently modular in nature – made up of multiple building blocks – including physical charge point hardware, a telecommunications-based connectivity mechanism, a network management system, a billing engine, and a customer relationship management component.

Through the charge points installed in publically accessible locations throughout the country, energy to provide a re-charging service to EV users is delivered via common EV industry charging standards at varying power levels - using both AC and DC. The ability to manage and operate these charge points is realised using a Charge Point Management System (CPMS).

Customer-related activities such as the processing of new registrations, on-going support functions, and account management services as provided by way of a Customer Relationship Management (CRM) module.

All complex billing and tariff related functions are carried-out directly in the billing engine, or core transaction processor. Various methods of billing are supported in the design; these can be based on parameters such as access fees, energy usage, subscriptions, time-of-use, and location. Payment may be handled on a pre or post-pay basis, with entities such as the network operator, energy supplier, or eMobility provider responsible for the actual customer billing process.

The above doesnt read as a wish list but a description of what they actually have.


Also, when they floated the charging for charging back in 2015 I presume they had systems in place to actually collect the money as they planned to make it live only a few weeks later only for the CRU putting a stop to it.

thierry14

^^^^^^

Government meetings lol 😂

Might as well burn our current network listening to that stuff

So are Fastned coming to Ireland or what?

We have a few Tesla chargers

Ionity are coming with a few

Can't think of anyone else

Is that the state of it?

KCross

thierry14 wrote: »

^^^^^^

Government meetings lol ��

Might as well burn our current network listening to that stuff

So are Fastned coming to Ireland or what?

We have a few Tesla chargers

Ionity are coming with a few

Can't think of anyone else

Is that the state of it?

I dont believe they are.

Ionity and whatever the govt decide to do are our main hopes in the medium term, along with Tesla superchargers.

cros13

Ionity has I think six locations here planned as part of their 400 location EU-wide initial rollout.
FastNed has aspirational plans for three to four Irish sites which are unlikely to be put in place until after their UK expansion (which will be after they are finished with both Germany and France).

liamog

cros13 wrote: »

Ionity has I think six locations here planned as part of their 400 location EU-wide initial rollout.
FastNed has aspirational plans for three to four Irish sites which are unlikely to be put in place until after their UK expansion (which will be after they are finished with both Germany and France).

I wonder will Brexit affect the UK expansion, we might get bumped up the list.

cros13

liamog wrote: »

I wonder will Brexit affect the UK expansion, we might get bumped up the list.

We'd be more likely to get bumped down the list and for fastned to concentrate on expansion east.

BoatMad

cros13 wrote: »

We'd be more likely to get bumped down the list and for fastned to concentrate on expansion east.

I agree and ionitys plans is “ highly asperational “ iny view.