Dilemma

missierex

I bought a house in 2012 with significant financial assistance from my parents. My dad also did most of the renovation work on the house.

Shortly before buying the house, I met my current partner. She moved in when the house was finished and has been living here for the majority of the past 3 years or so.

I have always wanted her to feel like this was her home and would try to include her on things like decorating the garden, buying small bits and pieces for the house. However, she has never felt like this is a place we really share which is understandable as everything in the house design wise was chosen by me (as it was prior to us becoming very serious). It has been the source of tension and arguments at times.

Her parents have now said they want to set her up financially by helping her to buy a property in Dublin. Another option they mooted was to give me half the value of my house so that my partner and I would then have a 50/50 share in the property. While this isn't necessarily a bad idea, it leaves me feeling uneasy. In the event that we broke up, one of us would have to buy the other out which neither of us could afford to do. Alternatively, we'd have to sell the house and part ways but I REALLY don't want to lose this place. A lot of blood, sweat and tears were shed in getting it to where it is now. Plus on some level i feel my parents have a stake in it.

My partner has said that if she buys her own place, that she would live there (she really wants a place of her own that she can put her own stamp on which I totally understand). This would mean we would have to live separately and rent out spare rooms to cover our respective mortgages. On the plus side, her having her own place would offer her so much financial security in the long run and she could make a decent amount of cash renting a room. Plus even with a 50% share in my house I'm not sure she would still feel like it's her place as everything her was chosen by me, and assisted by my folks.

The problem with all this is she views my trepidation at her parents' investment in my house as a sign that I'm not committed (again, I totally see why she might think that) and I inadvertently put my foot in it last night by saying that I feel like it would be hard for me to 'surrender' ownership to her....

Anyone been in a similar situation? Any advice or words of wisdom you can provide?

Addle

Can you move in with her and rent out your place in its entirety?

missierex

Addle wrote: »

Can you move in with her and rent out your place in its entirety?

Technically I possibly could, but this is my home and I don't want to go back to living in an apartment. Plus we have a pet together which requires outside space.

I don't feel that would solve anything in the long run as I wouldn't be happy and that would be a source of tension .

GingerLily

missierex wrote: »

Technically I possibly could, but this is my home and I don't want to go back to living in an apartment. Plus we have a pet together which requires outside space.

I don't feel that would solve anything in the long run as I wouldn't be happy and that would be a source of tension .

Is she going to buy an apartment? If the home she buys is suitable then would you consider moving in with her?

missierex

GingerLily wrote: »

Is she going to buy an apartment? If the home she buys is suitable then would you consider moving in with her?

I would definitely consider it. It's more than likely going to have to be an apartment though as funds won't allow for the purchase of a house.

dellas1979

Let me put it lightly for you.

While in the world of hearts and rainbows all is beautiful, you are essentially talking about 2 businesses. And if something went wrong, one can destroy the other. And these things need to be talked about and done with no emotion.

You are not married yet. You can both buy (assumed you did and she can) as first time buyers. If you ever get married, you own 50% of hers and hers yours.

I face a similar dilemma of my own (or will, but Ive thought about it). I am single, and building a house. IF I was to meet a significant other, I will think of myself first. There is no way in hell after blood, sweat, and tears getting a build done on my own that someone will take it away from me or entitled to it, just cause we might marry. I said this to a friend of mine recently and they said to me "but you'll love them! Whats yours is their and vice versa". Sorry, but no. You dont get half my assets because of an emotion...because I love you.

She is also entitled to feel this way too. And look after herself.

Best case scenario, each have your own properties. Rent one out. Maybe in future, sell and buy one house together.

Xterminator

Hi Op

what is your ideal solution so?

od you understand its natural for your partner has no equity, and no security on the place you call home ? IE as things stand its your home not hers. you do want her to purchase a share in your home, nor to get her own place and live there.

she wants these things. its natural. how do you propose she gets to that point in her life where she cannot be thrown out if her relationship ends? where she has her say in decorating, furnishing etc.

Or do you think she should put her desires aside, while you decide if it is good for you?

IMO you need to think of her too , in this decision.

missierex

dellas1979 wrote: »

Let me put it lightly for you.

While in the world of hearts and rainbows all is beautiful, you are essentially talking about 2 businesses. And if something went wrong, one can destroy the other. And these things need to be talked about and done with no emotion.

You are not married yet. You can both buy (assumed you did and she can) as first time buyers. If you ever get married, you own 50% of hers and hers yours.

I face a similar dilemma of my own (or will, but Ive thought about it). I am single, and building a house. IF I was to meet a significant other, I will think of myself first. There is no way in hell after blood, sweat, and tears getting a build done on my own that someone will take it away from me or entitled to it, just cause we might marry. I said this to a friend of mine recently and they said to me "but you'll love them! Whats yours is their and vice versa". Sorry, but no. You dont get half my assets because of an emotion...because I love you.

She is also entitled to feel this way too. And look after herself.

Best case scenario, each have your own properties. Rent one out. Maybe in future, sell and buy one house together.

This pretty much sums up my feelings on the matter. I don't like to think about the 'What ifs' in terms of the relationship ending, but I have to be pragmatic and practical. It just totally sucks that I've really upset her in doing so.

dellas1979

I think you are being smart!

Am not going to base life decisions on an "I love you" (right now).

I've been in the world of I love yous (right now). Best intentions were there at the time, and I made some not smart (financial) decisions, because I didnt think of myself. I based it all on an emotion. Its a huge gamble! And a fine lot of time and money to clear up if it goes wrong.

You havent upset her. She is upsetting herself. How can you be blamed for upsetting someone for having your wants and needs?

If she wants her own security, off she should go and buy her own place. She shouldnt have to rely on you to make it all ok.

Sound like also this is more of a "where is this going" kind of thing, with out actually having a conversation about it. Doing the "where are ye going" convo through property is a huge HUGE no no.

missierex

Xterminator wrote: »

Hi Op

what is your ideal solution so?

od you understand its natural for your partner has no equity, and no security on the place you call home ? IE as things stand its your home not hers. you do want her to purchase a share in your home, nor to get her own place and live there.

she wants these things. its natural. how do you propose she gets to that point in her life where she cannot be thrown out if her relationship ends? where she has her say in decorating, furnishing etc.

Or do you think she should put her desires aside, while you decide if it is good for you?

IMO you need to think of her too , in this decision.

I completely take your point on board, and I know that I am being somewhat selfish.

I do of course want her to have what I have, a place to all home and her own front door so to speak. But there are huge risks involved, if things went belly up we would both be equally screwed. I suppose, in an ideal world I hoped that she would stay here with me and rent out her apartment to make a nice little it of money for

missierex

Xterminator wrote: »

Hi Op

what is your ideal solution so?

od you understand its natural for your partner has no equity, and no security on the place you call home ? IE as things stand its your home not hers. you do want her to purchase a share in your home, nor to get her own place and live there.

she wants these things. its natural. how do you propose she gets to that point in her life where she cannot be thrown out if her relationship ends? where she has her say in decorating, furnishing etc.

Or do you think she should put her desires aside, while you decide if it is good for you?

IMO you need to think of her too , in this decision.

I completely take your point on board, and I know that I am being somewhat selfish.

I do of course want her to have what I have, a place to all home and her own front door so to speak. But there are huge risks involved, if things went belly up we would both be equally screwed. I suppose, in an ideal world I hoped that she would stay here with me and rent out her apartment to make a nice little bit of money from it.

Then in future, if we wanted we could sell both our properties and buy together

dellas1979

missierex wrote: »

I know that I am being somewhat selfish

Well, you know the olde argument....youve put on the table what you want/would like. But because it doesnt match up with hers, youre now the selfish one?

Imagine having a partner who had the same idea as you...what would that be called then?

I hate all this selfish talk/nonsense because you want to look out for yourself.

silverharp

her suggestion sounds weird about moving to an apartment just because she bought it. I know its obviously easier if you go down the traditional route of buying your first place together when its time however she was happy to move in to your place when it suited her and now she is planning to move out?
If you and her are each others "the one" then ye should be looking at the long term. Most people trade up once so chances are down the road you might end up moving to a bigger house or a different location.
The simple solution is that she buys an apartment and rents it out so that at some point down the road she can contribute to a future move or whatever. Otherwise this doesn't seem like a team, just 2 individuals with different goals.

Emme

OP I have never been in a similar situation but I think your girlfriend should get her own place. She can do it up as she sees fit and while she's doing that you can rent out a few rooms and that will help you financially. If she gets a place big enough she can rent out a room as well. Later on you can decide if you want to keep doing this or one of you move in with the other and rent the other place out. No matter how well a relationship is going it is best that both people concerned stand on their own two feet as much as possible.

Addle

Propose?

missierex

Emme wrote: »

OP I have never been in a similar situation but I think your girlfriend should get her own place. She can do it up as she sees fit and while she's doing that you can rent out a few rooms and that will help you financially. If she gets a place big enough she can rent out a room as well. Later on you can decide if you want to keep doing this or one of you move in with the other and rent the other place out. No matter how well a relationship is going it is best that both people concerned stand on their own two feet as much as possible.

That's the best possible 'compromise' I think at this stage. I hate the thoughts of her moving out but if I'm not comfortable giving up 50% of this house, I can't stand in her way.

LegacyUser

if she lives with you long enough, she might get a claim to your property anyway - you should get legal advice how this really works, and if it's safer for you that she pays in

woodchuck

missierex wrote: »

That's the best possible 'compromise' I think at this stage. I hate the thoughts of her moving out but if I'm not comfortable giving up 50% of this house, I can't stand in her way.

That sounds like the only option atm. But what about the future? If she's not willing to live in your property long term (seems she isn't and for good reason), down the line would you be happy to either:
- Rent/sell your property and move into her place, or
- You both rent/sell your properties and get a place together.

I think you both need to consider the long term options before you risk wasting each others time.

Also, are you both ok with the fact that your relationship is essentially taking a step backwards by not living together anymore?

missierex

woodchuck wrote: »

That sounds like the only option atm. But what about the future? If she's not willing to live in your property long term (seems she isn't and for good reason), down the line would you be happy to either:
- Rent/sell your property and move into her place, or
- You both rent/sell your properties and get a place together.

I think you both need to consider the long term options before you risk wasting each others time.

Also, are you both ok with the fact that your relationship is essentially taking a step backwards by not living together anymore?

To be honest, I'm not happy about it. It does feel like a massive step backwards but again, I can understand why she couldn't ever be 100 percent happy living here. It's all so bloody complicated!

I would definitely consider buying together down the line if that's what we want at that stage.

woodchuck

missierex wrote: »

I would definitely consider buying together down the line if that's what we want at that stage.

Have you talked frankly about when that stage might be though? And if she would be happy with it after all the effort she will be putting into buying her own property?

You've been together since 2012... personally I'd think it's time for you both to put all your cards on the table about your future together

missierex

woodchuck wrote: »

Have you talked frankly about when that stage might be though? And if she would be happy with it after all the effort she will be putting into buying her own property?

You've been together since 2012... personally I'd think it's time for you both to put all your cards on the table about your future together

I agree...our relationship has been dogged by issues and despite living together for the guts if three years, we've never lived together alone. I rented a room for a year or more, then my brother moved in and now my dad has been staying with us pretty much constantly since January as my brother bought a house that my dad is renovating.

I love her so much, and I know the feeling is completely mutual but a discussion needs to be had about where things are going.

LegacyUser

dellas1979 wrote: »

I am single, and building a house. IF I was to meet a significant other.

This is what makes your advice logical, but dreadful, you're just not in the OP's position and you can easily throw out advice that has no meaning as you don't have any experience of being in that position. If you love somebody, putting property before their needs wouldn't enter your head. Balancing up their financial contribution against your entitlement and theirs isn't a relationship, it's an arrangement and no more, it's conditional affection, people staying together until property prices and rights get in the way. Your use of the phrase "I love you right now" shows that too.

You've been placed in a difficult position by the fact of how you came to have your house OP, the timing and involvement of your parents has added complication. I don't envy you. I've sort of been where your girlfriend is and the view wasn't pretty, I had someone claiming to love me and want to stay with me who had committed to our home being just that, our home, while also demanding that I sign documents to state the complete opposite and trying to take other steps to make sure I had no traction in the situation. I left and despite losing quite a bit of money, it was the right decision, it was a total weight off me to lose someone who put property before the relationship and I'd do the same again in a heartbeat.

For what it's worth, my former partner is still in the same position, she has continued to put ownership above relationship and is extremely lonely and unhappy. Similarly a close friend of mine has cycled through a number of short term relationships that end at the point when they should be moving forward, because he's afraid of his life of losing a house he hates. I don't cite those examples to say that will happen to everyone, I'm sure there are solutions out there, but I mention them because I'm pretty sure your partner is quite right; you're not committed to her. I think your slip of the tongue was the truth too, you do feel you'd be surrendering the house to her, regardless of solutions you agree on equity.
That being how you feel, your choice is to go with that, keep your house and almost certainly lose your girlfriend, or if you want to stay together and you're genuinely committed to doing so, you'll have to trust the future and lose some control. Totally your choice and I don't think anyone will judge you for either decision, but it seems very unlikely you can do both.

GingerLily

I can see why she feels this house is yours and yours alone.
You have been letting your family live there which changes this quite a bit OP. If you want her to feel at home you need to let her live there without housemates and family.

missierex

GingerLily wrote: »

I can see why she feels this house is yours and yours alone.
You have been letting your family live there which changes this quite a bit OP. If you want her to feel at home you need to let her live there without housemates and family.

It's easier said than done, I couldn't have refused my dad staying here. As I said, he practically renovated this whole house himself and I'm trying to pay him back in my own way. He should be finished in April and both he and my brother will be gone then so we will have the place to ourselves.

I'm so upset and feel totally crap about this whole situation. I feel awful that my partner is upset but I'm not sure quite how to fix it.

GingerLily

missierex wrote: »

It's easier said than done, I couldn't have refused my dad staying here. As I said, he practically renovated this whole house himself and I'm trying to pay him back in my own way. He should be finished in April and both he and my brother will be gone then so we will have the place to ourselves.

I'm so upset and feel totally crap about this whole situation. I feel awful that my partner is upset but I'm not sure quite how to fix it.

Why is your brother and father living there? Are you sure they'll both leave in April?

You could redecorate the house once they move out with her input - fresh paint ,new accessories etc. You can start planning in advance of them leaving too. That might make her feel more involved with the house and it would be an inclusive gesture.

Take a mini break so she can get away from living with your family, that has to be taking a toll on her. You need to make her comfortable living there because if she moves out that's a massive backward step and I don't think you'll recover.

You really should have mentioned your family in the house sooner - it puts a whole different spin on your girlfriends motivations.

strandroad

It’s quite a situation indeed. I can see how it might be very difficult for your girlfriend – on the face of it, you moved in together which is an important stage in a relationship, but realistically she was always on the back foot: she didn’t really have any say about your living environment, you invited your family members to live with you, and the house was probably quite a building site throughout with ongoing renovations (which again were completely to your liking, since it’s your money). She must have felt like a houseguest or a house share mate and quite uncomfortable; but when she proves that she is committed and financially confident to truly share a house with you (by buying in), you’re not ready, and she’s out in the cold again. It must feel awkward that rather than take her offer you’d accept a stranger as a tenant and see her move out, even if your logic is sound.

The right decision for her seems to be to get her own place, because you made it clear she cannot gain equal footing in yours.

What you need to weigh though, is that it’s a massive step backwards and your relationship might suffer. People usually move from successful sharing to full commitment, whereas you’re moving from uncomfortable sharing back to just dating again, it must feel like a soft rejection to her. But if you’re not ready then you’re not ready and that’s your price to pay, there is no point in beating yourself up over it.

If you stay together and eventually move in together, she would have bought an apartment in an overheated market and you may end up with unnecessary negative equity as a couple. But if you split, she’ll be better off having her own place since she needs to live somewhere and renting is equally mad.

Your respective logic is sound for each of you separately, but it will probably weaken the relationship.

missierex

GingerLily wrote: »

Why is your brother and father living there? Are you sure they'll both leave in April?

You could redecorate the house once they move out with her input - fresh paint ,new accessories etc. You can start planning in advance of them leaving too. That might make her feel more involved with the house and it would be an inclusive gesture.

Take a mini break so she can get away from living with your family, that has to be taking a toll on her. You need to make her comfortable living there because if she moves out that's a massive backward step and I don't think you'll recover.

You really should have mentioned your family in the house sooner - it puts a whole different spin on your girlfriends motivations.

Apologies, I should have mentioned the family input earlier, my head is all over the place today.

Yes, it has been incredibly difficult for her, I can't begin to imagine how I would feel if the tables were turned. I don't blame her for feeling the way she does, I would feel the same. In an ideal world I would like us to spend some proper alone time, living together with no one else in the equation as we haven't had that before. Things have understandably been a bit strained because we never get alone time and I'm nervous about making such a massive decision until I know for sure that we can survive together, just the two of us.

Practically speaking, if she wants real financial security owning her own place would be her best option as if things went belly up we would both be ok and not cast out on the street. Her parents have suggested giving her enough for half the house's current worth (which is over double what I paid for it). If one of us had to buy the other out we would both be in dire straights financially. The only middle ground I could suggest is that her parents give me half what the house was originally worth (which would be about 120,000. That way, if I had to buy her out I might survive financially.

What she really wants I think is a bigger commitment from me to her. We're a gay couple and kids aren't on the agenda and neither of us really want marriage. She said to me that she feels there's no progression in this relationship (again, I can see where she's coming from) but it feels a bit like an ultimatum of sorts...either she buys in, or she moves out and our relationship more than likely ends.

I 100 percent would include her in remodelling/redecorating in the future because despite what some of you may think, I do want her to feel at home here. I love her and want us to stay together, but this situation is so unbelievably complex. It was a complete bolt out of the blue when she mentioned her parent's suggestion last night and I was completely taken aback.

strandroad

missierex wrote: »

Her parents have suggested giving her enough for half the house's current worth (which is over double what I paid for it). If one of us had to buy the other out we would both be in dire straights financially.

Why don't you let her buy in, take the money and put it into a savings account. The house belongs to both of you then but you agree that if you were to split you get the house (since you were the original owner) and she gets the money. Or if you decide to buy something else later, you can both use the money then.

missierex

strandroad wrote: »

Why don't you let her buy in, take the money and put it into a savings account. The house belongs to both of you then but you agree that if you were to split you get the house (since you were the original owner) and she gets the money. Or if you decide to buy something else later, you can both use the money then.

That seems like a good idea...where would be best to get legal advice on something like that? A standard solicitor?

dellas1979

Guessed wrote: »

If you love somebody, putting property before their needs wouldn't enter your head.

According to who, you? I'm afraid I've been around the block a few times mr.guessed, and I can tell you thats the most ridiculous thing Ive ever read. Because thats my opinion. Just because your head is in the clouds about "love", doesnt mean others dont see it differently.

If she loved him, her own property shouldnt matter, right?

Or is it going to be tit for tat? The guy has an opinion on where he stands and what he wants. The olde "I did it for love" doesnt bode well am afraid if she ever took him for 50/50, for something she originally had no input on.

A good friend of mine at the moment is going through a divorce. She put far much more money into the deposit and the house. He didnt. 10 years later, they seperated. Guess who is living in the house, and wont sell, unless he receives an extortionate amount?

You can argue what love is. But, I love myself more than to give up 50% of something I put all my effort into, without have some guard or protection. Noone can guarantee anyone eternal love. But you can ensure your future possessions.

LegacyUser

The big question is she currently and has she been paying you rent and essentially already paying towards your mortgage? I'd be royally p*ssed off in her shoes if that was case.