ICE Madness - The Queue For Dino Juice

goz83

Coming off the M1/M50 Junction at 10:30am I pulled into the Topaz garage with the intention of topping up my battery and getting some brunch. As I pulled into the garage, a member of staff was directing cars around the back of the garage. Access to the pumps (and the EVSE) was blocked from the entrance side. As I got to the back of the building, I was met with a very long queue of at least 50 cars all the way around to the pumps. I thought that there was some shortage, of that most of the pumps were offline. Not willing to queue for something I didn't need, I skipped ahead and cut through the parking area to get to the EVSE and plugged in.

Turns out they are running a promotion on Petrol & Diesel for 99.99c per litre. Not a bad deal, but it made me laugh. I had charged from 19% to 68% (so approx 15 minutes and in all that time I reckon about 20 cars had moved in the queue. There I was topping up for free while they were spending easily a half hour queuing for a few euro off their Dino Juice. When I left, the queue had stretched beyond the roundabout outside, so there were easily 100 cars in the queue at that stage. For some reason, not all the pumps were being used and the pump behind the EVSE was turned off too.

So, ICE owners are willing to sit for an hour in a queue for a discount.

unkel

goz83 wrote: »

a member of staff was directing war

Muckie

goz83 wrote: »

Coming off the M1/M50 Junction at 10:30am I pulled into the Topaz garage with the intention of topping up my battery and getting some brunch. As I pulled into the garage, a member of staff was directing wars around the back of the garage. Access to the pumps (and the EVSE) was blocked from the entrance side. As IU got to the back of the building, I was met with a very long queue of at least 50 cars all the way around to the pumps. I thought that there was some shortage, of that most of the pumps were offline. Not willing to queue for something I didn't need, I skipped ahead and cut through the parking area to get to the EVSE and plugged in.

Turns out they are running a promotion on Petrol & Diesel for 99.99c per litre. Not a bad deal, but it made me laugh. I had charged from 19% to 68% (so approx 15 minutes and in all that time I reckon about 20 cars had moved in the queue. There I was topping up for free while they were spending easily a half hour queuing for a few euro off their Dino Juice. When I left, the queue had stretched beyond the roundabout outside, so there were easily 100 cars in the queue at that stage. For some reason, not all the pumps were being used and the pump behind the EVSE was turned off too.

So, ICE owners are willing to sit for an hour in a queue for a discount.

Thats mental,expensive Topaz too.

I live up the road from there(in City West).
Wife was telling me about this, yesterday evening.

The roundabouts easily block up on a normalday, eejits queuing up like that, would you be bothered :pac:

ELM327

SUre they probably burned more sitting in the queue than they saved

Hotblack Desiato

ELM327 wrote: »

SUre they probably burned more sitting in the queue than they saved

Hardly. If they could get 50 litres in that's a 20 quid saving.

ELM327

Hotblack Desiato wrote: »

Hardly. If they could get 50 litres in that's a 20 quid saving.

Fuel burned while waiting will negate some of that.
And you've wasted one hour queuing, plus time out of your day to go get it.

I know 2 hours of my day to save 20 quid isnt worth it to me.

J.pilkington

Real stink of snobbery from the OP. Always an us versus them mentality!

€20 savings easily had by many people in the queue that you were judging.

What’s laughable is there are plenty of electric car owners who would hang around a cold petrol station with their hands in their pockets for 50mins rather than paying €4 or €5 to charge at home.......

ELM327

J.pilkington wrote: »

Real stink of snobbery from the OP. Always an us versus them mentality!

€20 savings easily had by many people in the queue that you were judging.

What’s laughable is there are plenty of electric car owners who would hang around a cold petrol station with their hands in their pockets for 50mins rather than paying €4 or €5 to charge at home.......

It's not snobbery (from me anyway) it's realism and a realisation of your value of your own time.
I've never gone out of my way to charge my EV, unless it was needed to continue my journey. The only concession I ever made was to park at a spot with an AC charger instead of the next door non charger equipped spot.

ELM327 wrote: »

Fuel burned while waiting will negate some of that.
And you've wasted one hour queuing, plus time out of your day to go get it.

I know 2 hours of my day to save 20 quid isnt worth it to me.

nelly17

OP if you think about it most people don't own an EV because they cant afford the outlay of one and live within the relms of the second hand car market so why wouldn't they go for a discounted fuel rate.

J.pilkington

ELM327 wrote: »

It's not snobbery (from me anyway) it's realism and a realisation of your value of your own time.
I've never gone out of my way to charge my EV, unless it was needed to continue my journey. The only concession I ever made was to park at a spot with an AC charger instead of the next door non charger equipped spot.

A. These people are not a representation of all ice drivers just like the electric drivers I mentioned are not a representation of all electric drivers. I get the sense of snobbery that all ice drivers are clowns who dont see the light.

B. Do you not think you are exaggerating a small bit with your 2 hrs queue time?

I don’t see any posts slagging of the electric drivers who I have mentioned over on the ice forum who do the exact same thing the OP mentions only for a fraction of the savings.

ELM327

J.pilkington wrote: »

A. These people are not a representation of all ice drivers just like the electric drivers I mentioned are not a representation of all electric drivers. I get the sense of snobbery that all ice drivers are clowns who dont see the light.

B. Do you not think you are exaggerating a small bit with your 2 hrs queue time?

I don’t see any posts slagging of the electric drivers who I have mentioned over on the ice forum who do the exact same thing the OP mentions only for a fraction of the savings.

A - They are not clowns but it is clear that the days of ICE are numbered.
B - 1 hour, 2 hours, 10 hours whatever timeframe, it's insufficient to me to save 20 quid. Especially when you factor in queuing and burning fuel while queuing.

Regarding slagging the electric car drivers, you do realise this is the EV forum? Why would we EV drivers slag EV drivers?

Creamy Goodness

What's the Eggs Benny like in Topaz?!

J.pilkington

ELM327 wrote: »

A - They are not clowns but it is clear that the days of ICE are numbered.

I REFER YOU TO MADLADS THREAD, THESE DAYS YOU MENTION ARE A LITTLE FURTHER AWAY THAN YOU WOULD LIKE TO
ADMIT, SO IN THE MEANTIME YOU SHOULD CONSIDER REFRAINING FROM LOOKING DOWN YOUR NOSE AT PEOPLE WHO DONT HAVE ELECTRIC CARS BECAUSE THEY ARE NOT PRACTICAL FOR THEM.

EG, POSTS LIKE ABOVE (NOT YOURS) WHICH STATE THAT PEOPLE ONLY DRIVE ICE BECAUSE THEY CANT AFFORD ELECTRIC CARS, WTF!!!!!!!

B - 1 hour, 2 hours, 10 hours whatever timeframe, it's insufficient to me to save 20 quid. Especially when you factor in queuing and burning fuel while queuing.
WHY ARE YOU MAKING UP QUEUING TIMES? AGAIN I COULDNT CARE ABOUT YOUR TIME VALUE OF MONEY, MY POINT IS ELECTRIC CAR POSTERS ARE LOOKING DOWN THEIR NOSES AT ICE DRIVERS QUEUING TO SAVE €20 BUT IGNORE THEIR FELLOW ELECTRIC DRIVERS WHO QUEUE FOR LONGER TO SAVE A FRACTION.

Regarding slagging the electric car drivers, you do realise this is the EV forum? Why would we EV drivers slag EV drivers? :confused
PLEASE REREAD MY POST AND YOU'LL UNDERSTAND

:

See my replies in caps lock..

Anyways I’m out. I can feel that a circular reference error message is on the horizon

Wheety

You do come across as a snob. I'm thinking of getting an EV but can't afford the outlay for a decent one just yet. ICE may be on the way out but it's still at least 15+ years away. You seem to think because you've made the change, you're better than these other people.

What if a few of them had EVs? How long would you have had to wait?

mirrorwall14

And some of us don’t have driveways so charging an electric isn’t a possibility even when we want them

thierry14

ELM327 wrote: »

A - They are not clowns but it is clear that the days of ICE are numbered.
B - 1 hour, 2 hours, 10 hours whatever timeframe, it's insufficient to me to save 20 quid. Especially when you factor in queuing and burning fuel while queuing.

Regarding slagging the electric car drivers, you do realise this is the EV forum? Why would we EV drivers slag EV drivers?

Even the playing field

If no tax on fuel and enviromental crap, Ice would be far from dead

If petrol was 40 cent a litre my hole would i drive a Leaf etc

I'll be driving one soon though

ELM327

Wheety wrote: »

You do come across as a snob. I'm thinking of getting an EV but can't afford the outlay for a decent one just yet. ICE may be on the way out but it's still at least 15+ years away. You seem to think because you've made the change, you're better than these other people.

What if a few of them had EVs? How long would you have had to wait?

You can't afford 5-6k for an early Leaf?
Even with the initial outlay sure it's cheaper than anything other than the oldest, least reliable, least economical ICE.

When a $200k EV can match and beat the performance of the best $3,000,000 supercar ICE, you must accept the days of ICE "tech" is out there with the horse and cart, the steam train, the quill and the fax machine. Great innovations in their day but their day has passed. Used now only for novelty. If you think in 15 years you'll be buying a tank of fossil fuel for your ICE you are sadly mistaken. In 15 years, ICE will be banned across most of Europe.

thierry14 wrote: »

Even the playing field

If no tax on fuel and enviromental crap, Ice would be far from dead

If petrol was 40 cent a litre my hole would i drive a Leaf etc

I'll be driving one soon though

In the US where the above is true, people still drive EV. It's up to nearly 7% penetration in some states, often with less state aid than here.

ted1

What’s the purpose of the post?

OP there ain’t be a q tomorrow, ICE cars will pull up fill there tank and be back on the road in less than 5 minutes without having to charge again for 1,000km


How many hours will you spend charging in that 1000km?

[snip]

Mod Note: A little more civility please.

ELM327

ted1 wrote: »

What’s the purpose of the post?

OP there ain’t be a q tomorrow, ICE cars will pull up fill there tank and be back on the road in less than 5 minutes without having to charge again for 1,000km


How many hours will you spend charging in that 1000km?

[snip]

I know that generally I don't spend much time charging at all.
30 seconds to plug in at home, 30 seconds to plug out in the morning.
Same at work.
And it's free at work.

Ubbquittious

ELM327 wrote: »

You can't afford 5-6k for an early Leaf?
Even with the initial outlay sure it's cheaper than anything other than the oldest, least reliable, least economical ICE.

When a $200k EV can match and beat the performance of the best $3,000,000 supercar ICE, you must accept the days of ICE "tech" is out there with the horse and cart, the steam train, the quill and the fax machine. Great innovations in their day but their day has passed. Used now only for novelty. If you think in 15 years you'll be buying a tank of fossil fuel for your ICE you are sadly mistaken. In 15 years, ICE will be banned across most of Europe.



In the US where the above is true, people still drive EV. It's up to nearly 7% penetration in some states, often with less state aid than here.

I think those $3,000,000 cars are regularly beaten by smaller and lighter kit cars and the likes of the Ariel Atom that cost much less than 200k. Even when the likes of the Nissan GT-R came out it was faster than a lot of vastly more expensive cars. Those expensive cars are going to stay around even if the next generation Ioniq does 0-60 in less than a second

goz83

J.pilkington wrote: »

Real stink of snobbery from the OP. Always an us versus them mentality!

€20 savings easily had by many people in the queue that you were judging.

What’s laughable is there are plenty of electric car owners who would hang around a cold petrol station with their hands in their pockets for 50mins rather than paying €4 or €5 to charge at home.......

Don't see where you're getting the snob from, because I am far from one. Actually one of the main reasons I created the thread was because of some ICE drivers slagging off EV drivers for hanging around a charge point to save a few euro. Clearly....ICE drivers will do exactly the same thing. Double standards much? They also blocked up the roundabout, so other motorists couldn't get through unless they were willing to wait a long time. A few minutes later and I bet the next roundabout would have been vblocked, causing delays on the M50/M1 exit.

nelly17 wrote: »

OP if you think about it most people don't own an EV because they cant afford the outlay of one and live within the relms of the second hand car market so why wouldn't they go for a discounted fuel rate.

I reckon most people can afford an EV. M<aybe not a brand new one, but Leafs have sold for as little as 5k here....I know....because I bought one at that price.

Wheety wrote: »

You do come across as a snob. I'm thinking of getting an EV but can't afford the outlay for a decent one just yet. ICE may be on the way out but it's still at least 15+ years away. You seem to think because you've made the change, you're better than these other people.

Again I don't see any snobbery in what I said. Having a chuckle at ICE drivers in an hour long queue is hardly silver spoon in mouth stuff.

I don't know your circumstances, so can't comment on whether you can, or can't afford an EV, but they can be quite cheap second hand.

Wheety wrote: »

What if a few of them had EVs? How long would you have had to wait?

I wouldn't have had to wait at all. I would have decided to drive straight home and not waste money on a chicken roll. I plugged in because it was convenient and I wanted to eat a chicken roll.

ted1 wrote: »

What’s the purpose of the post?

OP there ain’t be a q tomorrow, ICE cars will pull up fill there tank and be back on the road in less than 5 minutes without having to charge again for 1,000km


How many hours will you spend charging in that 1000km?

[snip]

Mod Note: A little more civility please.

The purpose was to show that some ICE drivers will queue for a very long time for a small discount. This time it was a decent discount, but not worth the wait (imo). However, I have seen queues at the Applegreen in Kinsealy when they used to offer 5c off per litre after 11pm iirc.

My EV usually charges while I sleep. It takes me between 10-15 seconds to plug in and unplug every 3 days. Does that count as waiting?

I rarely use public chargers and usually only when I am stopping in for food, or at destination chargers....such as the other day when I was at the Rotunda hospital and plugged in right outside to charge the car while I was there. It took me a minute to plug in and unplug...give or take a few seconds.

ironmonkey

I’m not really interested in the ICE vs EV one up man ship but I am in the market for a second vehicle for the first time in 10 years. With an average enough budget an EV car was as affordable as a used golf deisel from 4/5 years ago - probably as middle of the road as it gets.

DaveyDave

I filled up today at the one on the N4 at Palmerstown. Apparently they only had select locations doing the deal and at varying times due to the Gardai approval or something, safety/traffic etc and all the Topaz doing it was 99c for 99 minutes.

Left my apartment at 11, home by 11:30. Had to park up after filling, went to pay and I was the only one in the queue vs the Texaco near me where there's ALWAYS 5-6 people in front of me at the till and sometimes the queue is at the door.

A bit sketchy parked up on the N4 but the queue moved quick enough. As I was passing the opposite direction the queue was only 3-4 cars. No more of a queue than the Go Garage on Kylemore road.

I personally wouldn't drive out of my way to a petrol station for the sake of 2-3c as the fuel used would negate the savings but I saved about €17 vs what would have been €60 and I went in before work, not like I took a lunch or anything.

I didn't have to drive very far, I didn't queue very long and I have start/stop. Worked quite well for me. Maybe 5 minutes longer than my usual fill up?

Wheety

goz83 wrote: »

Again I don't see any snobbery in what I said. Having a chuckle at ICE drivers in an hour long queue is hardly silver spoon in mouth stuff.

I don't know your circumstances, so can't comment on whether you can, or can't afford an EV, but they can be quite cheap second hand.

Sorry I just mean your message was a bit looking down on all the idiots driving ICE Wasn't really saying you were snobby.

Just sometimes EV owners come across like the Prius owners in South Park

I am planning on getting an EV but it's probably not the right time at the moment. Doing a lot of work on the house.

Have driven the i3. Great car. Hopefully with a few more models coming out, prices will start dropping quicker in the 2nd hand market.

Gumbo

thierry14 wrote: »

Even the playing field

If no tax on fuel and enviromental crap, Ice would be far from dead

If petrol was 40 cent a litre my hole would i drive a Leaf etc

I'll be driving one soon though

Would also then have to remove any levies on the electricity like the PSO Levy, etc etc just to level it fairly.

If petrol was 40c though, I’d still have my 4.6 V8!

ted1

kceire wrote: »

thierry14 wrote: »

Even the playing field

If no tax on fuel and enviromental crap, Ice would be far from dead

If petrol was 40 cent a litre my hole would i drive a Leaf etc

I'll be driving one soon though

Would also then have to remove any levies on the electricity like the PSO Levy, etc etc just to level it fairly.

If petrol was 40c though, I’d still have my 4.6 V8!

I’ve been driving on i40 for the past week in Malaysia, 10.3 litres per 100kmh. About 25c per litre. No EVs in sight and old school engines in new cars.

Idbatterim

I totally agree with the op, people switched in their hundreds of thousands to save a pittance or indeed cost themselves more with diesel, when you factor in diesel issues that dont effect petrols. diesel obviously only worth it if doing moderate to high mileage. They switched in their droves to save a pittance in motor tax. Blowing thousands on interest and depreciation.

We now have electrics which are massively cheaper to run and now have real world range and people arent switching to them en masse. Despite the fact that unlike diesel v petrol. Electric v petrol or diesel is massive savings...

Idbatterim

Wheety wrote: »

You do come across as a snob. I'm thinking of getting an EV but can't afford the outlay for a decent one just yet. ICE may be on the way out but it's still at least 15+ years away. You seem to think because you've made the change, you're better than these other people.

What if a few of them had EVs? How long would you have had to wait?

i dont think its anything like 15 years away. savings on electric with the ranges that are now available and about to become available, will be massive. as long as the government doesnt come up with some way of massively increasing the cost of "electric fuel".

anyway its not like people care what powers their cars be it diesel or electric. sure look at the masses of crap box diesels sold...

if all people care about is the year on the reg and how cheap the car is to run, now with real world ranges coming on board. other than ignorance or people doing outrageous mileage. I dont see why you wouldnt go for electric. As I say, as long as the electricity prices arent hiked massively. The fact you dont need to service electgrics is massive too, seeing as most people here would probably struggle to top up the windscreen washer fluid!

Idbatterim

ELM327 wrote: »

I know that generally I don't spend much time charging at all.
30 seconds to plug in at home, 30 seconds to plug out in the morning.
Same at work.
And it's free at work.

inductive charging is also available at home now, how long before that is rolled out elsewhere and you dont even need to get out of the car?

ELM327

Wheety wrote: »

Sorry I just mean your message was a bit looking down on all the idiots driving ICE Wasn't really saying you were snobby.

Just sometimes EV owners come across like the Prius owners in South Park

I am planning on getting an EV but it's probably not the right time at the moment. Doing a lot of work on the house.

Have driven the i3. Great car. Hopefully with a few more models coming out, prices will start dropping quicker in the 2nd hand market.

kceire wrote: »

Would also then have to remove any levies on the electricity like the PSO Levy, etc etc just to level it fairly.

If petrol was 40c though, I’d still have my 4.6 V8!

I'd still have one of the many V8 I had in the past too, but unfortunately outside of the US and the developing economies the days of 40c/l fossil fuels is behind us.

CramCycle

nelly17 wrote: »

OP if you think about it most people don't own an EV because they cant afford the outlay of one and live within the relms of the second hand car market so why wouldn't they go for a discounted fuel rate.

Alot of people don't switch for a completely different reason, the look, style and choice.

If toyota had released an EV version of the RAV4 here, or Nissan a version of the Quashqai, a few years ago, even with terrible range, it would have been eaten up in Dublin. To a lot of people the Leaf (and the rest) look small and unattractive. I was trying to convince the household to pick up a second hand leaf for our next car, it is within our budget but the truth is, to the other two users of the car, the options looked tacky and gimmicky. Didn't bother me as I don't care what it looks like to get those savings on tax and fuel but too the other two parties it does. So we are getting another petrol car until the options are a little more in line with the look of what they want.

Orebro

CramCycle wrote: »

Alot of people don't switch for a completely different reason, the look, style and choice.
I was trying to convince the household to pick up a second hand leaf for our next car, it is within our budget but the truth is, to the other two users of the car, the options looked tacky and gimmicky. Didn't bother me as I don't care what it looks like to get those savings on tax and fuel but too the other two parties it does. So we are getting another petrol car until the options are a little more in line with the look of what they want.

Sounds like you have a couple of spoiled brats in the house

goz83

CramCycle wrote: »

Alot of people don't switch for a completely different reason, the look, style and choice.

If toyota had released an EV version of the RAV4 here, or Nissan a version of the Quashqai, a few years ago, even with terrible range, it would have been eaten up in Dublin. To a lot of people the Leaf (and the rest) look small and unattractive. I was trying to convince the household to pick up a second hand leaf for our next car, it is within our budget but the truth is, to the other two users of the car, the options looked tacky and gimmicky. Didn't bother me as I don't care what it looks like to get those savings on tax and fuel but too the other two parties it does. So we are getting another petrol car until the options are a little more in line with the look of what they want.

I agree. Many people don't care what filth is coming out the end of the tailpipe and when paying for fuel on the credit/debit card, it's too easily forgotten about. I'm sure Nissan had their reasons for going with the Leaf, rather than an electric Quashqai. Seems it wasn't a bad move and it did get noticed as a stand-alone EV....which is what was needed.

What sort of budget did you have in mind? There is an E-Golf on donedeal for 21.5k. Stated range is close to 200klm. 2015 model. Looks like a "normal" car for anyone so fixated on a certain look.

Creamy Goodness

Nissan would have to give away free electricity for the life of an EV Quashqai if they had any hopes of me buying one. Even then it'd be a tough sell, they're an awful looking thing.

jackofalltrades

Idbatterim wrote: »

i dont think its anything like 15 years away. savings on electric with the ranges that are now available and about to become available, will be massive.
as long as the government doesnt come up with some way of massively increasing the cost of "electric fuel".

Car manufacturers don't have the capacity or model range for everyone to start switching to EVs.
The only people who will make savings will be the early adopters, as soon as the government start to lose revenue they'll roll out a new tax.
Sure they've been flying the "road pricing" kite for years now.

The fact you dont need to service electgrics is massive too, seeing as most people here would probably struggle to top up the windscreen washer fluid!

EVs may need less servicing, but they still need to be serviced.

goz83

jackofalltrades wrote: »

EVs may need less servicing, but they still need to be serviced.

Yeah. Changing that pollen filter is a Level 5 difficulty in the Haynes Manual.

In fairness, they require feck all maintenance compared to an ICE.

Brakes last waaaaay longer.

Tires may need rotating/changing about 20% sooner than the average ICE.

Coolant change is every 5 years iirc.

Wiper blades.....3 years (ish)

Brake fluid....3-5 years.

Windshield fluid.....when you run out of it.

Battery replacement....Unknown due to constant changes, but worst case scenarios have been noted on the Leaf inside of 3 years in hot climates and lots of rapid charging. My 5 year old Leaf has only lost 1 bar. And we are now seeing situations where single cells can be changed out and where batteries can be upgraded. New batteries will last a hell of a lot longer than the first gen batteries and even with capacity loss (like with any ICE car), they will last a very long time.

ironmonkey

When thinking of cost and savings we have to think of the bigger picture. With agriculture forming a significant part of Irish economy producing huge quantities emissions and this is an area extremely difficult to reform other sectors will have to see greater reform to compensate. The cost of not doing so will be enormous fines for missed targets. The transport sector is a key area to make up the slack. The government will be forced to continue to incentivize EV and to increase taxes on petrol / diesel until a critical mass is reached.

CramCycle

Orebro wrote: »

Sounds like you have a couple of spoiled brats in the house

Those are the breaks. Other than looks as well, they prefer cars you have more of an upright position and with bad knees all over the family, it is easier in the likes of a Rav4 and similar to get in and out. If there are SUV options for EVs though, they would jump at them but none seem to have come out over here and the hybrids seem like crazy money (I could be wrong)

goz83 wrote: »

I agree. Many people don't care what filth is coming out the end of the tailpipe and when paying for fuel on the credit/debit card, it's too easily forgotten about. I'm sure Nissan had their reasons for going with the Leaf, rather than an electric Quashqai. Seems it wasn't a bad move and it did get noticed as a stand-alone EV....which is what was needed.

What sort of budget did you have in mind? There is an E-Golf on donedeal for 21.5k. Stated range is close to 200klm. 2015 model. Looks like a "normal" car for anyone so fixated on a certain look.

I agree but alot of people feel they need a bigger, nicer looking vehicle. Alot of commentators talk about the range of EVs but bar one trip I make, nearly all can be done with ease. All I hear from my partner when I am out and being pass remarkable, is how ugly Leafs are. Alas slightly out of my range by about 5k. I would have happily taken a Leaf other than the objectors, interestingly, the way things are going, I am probably going to get screwed both ways now as fuel will increase but there will be no resale value and the 2nd hand market for EVs will undoubtedly jump in price as demand increases over the next 5 years.

Creamy Goodness wrote: »

Nissan would have to give away free electricity for the life of an EV Quashqai if they had any hopes of me buying one. Even then it'd be a tough sell, they're an awful looking thing.

I don't like them either and the really thick front pillar makes them a horrible vehicle to observe in (my brother in law has one).

ironmonkey wrote: »

When thinking of cost and savings we have to think of the bigger picture. With agriculture forming a significant part of Irish economy producing huge quantities emissions and this is an area extremely difficult to reform other sectors will have to see greater reform to compensate. The cost of not doing so will be enormous fines for missed targets. The transport sector is a key area to make up the slack. The government will be forced to continue to incentivize EV and to increase taxes on petrol / diesel until a critical mass is reached.

They don't seem to arsed about it so far:
https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=105392733&postcount=3192

jackofalltrades

goz83 wrote: »

In fairness, they require feck all maintenance compared to an ICE.

Brakes last waaaaay longer.

Tires may need rotating/changing about 20% sooner than the average ICE.

Coolant change is every 5 years iirc.

Wiper blades.....3 years (ish)

Brake fluid....3-5 years.

Windshield fluid.....when you run out of it.

So you agree that they still require quite a lot of the usual maintenance.
You just don't have an engine to maintain, which can vary from easy to complicated depending on what you're driving.

Also I've had to replace discs on two cars with regenerative brakes due to seized caliper pins.
And I'm fairly sure another poster in this thread has had a similar issue.
So I'm not buying into the "Brakes last waaaaay longer" argument just yet.

Sabre Man

jackofalltrades wrote: »

Also I've had to replace discs on two cars with regenerative brakes due to seized caliper pins.

Which cars?

Orebro

jackofalltrades wrote: »

So you agree that they still require quite a lot of the usual maintenance.
You just don't have an engine to maintain, which can vary from easy to complicated depending on what you're driving.

Also I've had to replace discs on two cars with regenerative brakes due to seized caliper pins.
And I'm fairly sure another poster in this thread has had a similar issue.
So I'm not buying into the "Brakes last waaaaay longer" argument just yet.

Ummm, the only ones I can see that you might take to a garage are coolant and brake fluid changes, hardly even remotely similar to what’s needed in regular ICE servicing.

goz83

jackofalltrades wrote: »

So you agree that they still require quite a lot of the usual maintenance.
You just don't have an engine to maintain, which can vary from easy to complicated depending on what you're driving.

Also I've had to replace discs on two cars with regenerative brakes due to seized caliper pins.
And I'm fairly sure another poster in this thread has had a similar issue.
So I'm not buying into the "Brakes last waaaaay longer" argument just yet.

Look at the list, which is quite comprehensive. Warranty aside, what would an EV need done in the first 5 years of ownership and 100k klms? And which would require a trip to a mechanic?


I’m going to say tires would need doing twice at any tire place. Windshield wipers once, maybe twice. I think most of us can manage that job. Windshield fluid might need a few top ups :pac:

The other stuff could be left off longer and there are plaenty of EVs on their original brake pads after 5 years. My 3 year old is definitely on original pads and I think the 5 year old is too, as there were no receipts for pads and nothing was noted in the official service booklet either. When I had tires replaced, the mechanic was of the opinion that the pads were original and still had 70% + left on them.

After 5 years or 100k klm, the fluids should definitely be changed out, but that’s also when servicing costs ramp up for an ICE, which has already had multiple services on the engine.

cros13

goz83 wrote: »

Look at the list, which is quite comprehensive. Warranty aside, what would an EV need done in the first 5 years of ownership and 100k klms? And which would require a trip to a mechanic?

Tires, and two changes of air filters and brake fluid in 5 years. Though if it wasn't for the need to get a visual inspection to keep up the warranty many EV owners would do the last two themselves.

At 140,000km my factory brake pads on the i3 aren't even half worn. And I drive like a lunatic.

Wheety

Wheety wrote: »

You do come across as a snob............

A wannabe snob at best. Topaz for brunch, lol.

goz83

Augeo wrote: »

A wannabe snob at best. Topaz for brunch, lol.

‘Twas a fine chicken roll. All the snobs were eating Supermacs