Promotion within the Civil Service

bigjigwig77

I'm starting as an EO in January this year, coming from a consultant (junior management) position from the banking industry.

How realistic is it to climb up the ranks to Assistant Principal within 10 years, going either the AO or HEO route?

Am I kidding myself or is this well attainable by someone with a bit of drive and a good work eithic?

Dr. Kenneth Noisewater

bigjigwig77 wrote: »

I'm starting as an EO in January this year, coming from a consultant (junior management) position from the banking industry.

How realistic is it to climb up the ranks to Assistant Principal within 10 years, going either the AO or HEO route?

Am I kidding myself or is this well attainable by someone with a bit of drive and a good work eithic?

If you're willing to travel or move for work, it's doable. I made it from CO to HEO in exactly 10 years. Flexibility definitely helps.

Riskymove

bigjigwig77 wrote: »

Am I kidding myself or is this well attainable by someone with a bit of drive and a good work eithic?

it is very doable with the current Open competition regime, especially woith qualifications and prior experiences.

Know someone who went CO to AP in about 12 years under old regime

I am aware of someone in recent times going from CO to EO to HEO in just 20 months

Doubtitdub

Yes very doable, it is all down to the right timing too as in if there are competitions being run by either PAS or internally.

For example there is currently a HEO competition running presently so it will be about another two years approx until one is run again, saying that though you dont need to go the route of EO - HEO - AP.

You can jump straight to AP from EO as many have done in the last year or so.

Best of luck in the new career.

Creol1

While it is possible, you would be no means want to predicate your move to the Civil Service on the chance that this happens. I have worked in the Civil Service for a couple of years and people who have climbed the ladder by two grades in the space of ten years would be exceptional and I would only be able to think of an handful of examples.

Bear in mind that for the first two years you will not be permitted to go for any internal or interdepartmental competitions, because these are typically restricted to civil servants with a minimum of two years' aggregate service. Competitions are to a considerable extent competency-based and as this depends on being able to draw on examples, etc., those with longer service are at an advantage in that regard.

It is difficult to advise in particular because it depends so much on economic matters which are impossible to predict five let alone 10 years ahead. As you will be aware, the Civil Service basically ran no competitions for a period of six years from 2008-14 because of the recruitment freeze. Since 2014, competitions have been vastly more competitive than during the boom years, when attracting people to the Civil Service was a problem.

passinginterest

Depends on a lot of factors, but in the current climate if Dublin based then it's very possible. I started as a CO and just got AP 11 years later. I got EO through open competition within 18 months then there was a 7 year recruitment freeze and zero promotion opportunities in my Department. I got HEO by internal competition just over 2 years ago and got AP a few weeks ago via the open/interdepartmental. There's a lot of young AP's around at the moment, most of them having come in at CO or EO. At least one AP has joined our Department having moved up from CO in less than 2 years.

bigjigwig77

Hi all, thanks very much, you've set my mind at ease a bit! Now I just have to deal with the initial drop in salary!

Crunchymomma

Glad to hear it's not unreasonable! Hoping to not stay an EO for too long!

Rosen

Hi, Just to add to this. It is absolutely possible. My advice is to look for work (even if it means taking on extra work) that you will be able to point to in the future which will demonstrates your ability to move up - projects etc. Learn as much as you can about the system - PQs, reps, speeches, etc. In short, get involved in the core work and deliver a few things. EO is a great grade to make a name for yourself.

Open competitions are great for those with potential but who haven't necessarily 'done their time'. I made the move you are talking about in less than 5 years. I find internal competitions can tend to be biased against the parachute brigade - usually promoting those who are 'safe' and/or seen as insiders - whereas open competitions the focus is solely on talent identification and potential. This isn't to say that people promoted through internal competitions aren't good or deserving - it's just that they can be biased against people who haven't been brought up within their respective organisation. There will be open competitions every two years for the next few years so you have every opportunity to move up.
It takes about 10 years to shake the outsider label!!:)

Edmundomee

Hi guys, just a question you might be able to help me with. I'm after joining the civil service as a HEO in September this year. Just in relation to pay scale increases, etc when are these carried out? Are they done on a calendar year basis (end of December) or is it exactly a year after you joined the service that you'd be able to get your first increase?

Also, do you need to do anything to get the increase, paperwork-wise or is this sorted by payroll automatically. Thank you for the help - Civil Service newb

Ciaran

12 months from when you started. You don't need to do anything (other than pass your PMDS).

Conqueror

Edmundomee wrote: »

Hi guys, just a question you might be able to help me with. I'm after joining the civil service as a HEO in September this year. Just in relation to pay scale increases, etc when are these carried out? Are they done on a calendar year basis (end of December) or is it exactly a year after you joined the service that you'd be able to get your first increase?

Also, do you need to do anything to get the increase, paperwork-wise or is this sorted by payroll automatically. Thank you for the help - Civil Service newb

Your increment is on the anniversary of your first day in the role, so if you started on September 4th, 2017, your increment will be on September 4th each year, providing you pass probation this year, and pass your PMDS every year.

You normally don't need to do anything, but it can happen that people don't get their increment straight away because of an oversight someone. A tip is let your local HR know a couple of weeks before your anniversary that it's coming up.

august12

Pay equivalent to their existing pay, including their accrued increment on the current scale, if any, plus an immediate increment on the new scale.

Could someone explain this to me? If promoted internally and one has been on the top of their salary scale of their current job for a number of years, where does one start on the new pay scale, am a bit confused about this.

Dr. Kenneth Noisewater

If you're a CO on the top of the scale earning €38,341 and you're being promoted to EO, it just means that you can't go onto a salary that is less than what you're earning. So, instead of going onto the first point of the EO scale at €28k, you'd go onto the 7th point at €38,588.

Salary scales http://www.impact.ie/your-sector/public-sector/civil-service/civil-service-salary-scales/civil-servcie-salary-scales-2017-general-service-grades-full-prsi/

august12

Thanks for that, but if one is at the top scale for their grade for a number of years, there seems to be a different arrangement in that one skips a number of points on the new scale.

Creol1

Dr. Kenneth Noisewater wrote: »

If you're a CO on the top of the scale earning €38,341 and you're being promoted to EO, it just means that you can't go onto a salary that is less than what you're earning. So, instead of going onto the first point of the EO scale at €28k, you'd go onto the 7th point at €38,588.

Salary scales http://www.impact.ie/your-sector/public-sector/civil-service/civil-service-salary-scales/civil-servcie-salary-scales-2017-general-service-grades-full-prsi/

It should be noted that the figures in these scales have been superseded by the latest pay deal.