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Planning & Exempt Building

  • 23-11-2017 3:27pm
    #1
    Registered Users Posts: 7


    Hi All,

    I have a few queries in relation to building. We have a planning application in for building a dormer in the attic and doing a downstairs extension. The downstairs extension is smaller than the 40sq metres but because of the attic dormer we had to apply for permission for the whole application. Our neighbour is not liking the idea at all and refusing to discuss anything with us. The neighbour has lodged an objection but by the looks of it, it isnt sufficient for them to decline the planning permission. We just know that once we get approval that the neighbour will lodge another objection which will delay our plans and we have booked a builder.

    It is a mid terraced house also.
    My questions are:

    1. Can we proceed with the downstairs exempt extension even if we are waiting on planning for the attic dormer?
    2. Can we build on the party/boundary wall without the neighbour's permission as the neighbour won't engage?
    3. If we pull our application can we still go ahead with the exempt part and then re apply for the dormer when they start the job?

    Thanks in advance


Comments

  • Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators Posts: 10,133 Mod ✭✭✭✭BryanF


    What does your designer have to say on the mater ?


  • Registered Users Posts: 7 Johndoe121


    Hi Bryan,

    I just wanted to get a few options before running things past the designer because he is persistent on getting the neighbour on our side but it doesn't look like that is going to happen.


  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 37,768 Mod ✭✭✭✭Gumbo


    1. Technically no as you are implementing what was lodged for planning.

    2. No. Boundary wall / party wall agreement required.

    3. Yes. I’ve done this before.


  • Subscribers Posts: 40,547 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    kceire wrote: »
    2. No. Boundary wall / party wall agreement required.

    Are you sure about that one?


  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 37,768 Mod ✭✭✭✭Gumbo


    sydthebeat wrote: »
    Are you sure about that one?

    It’s a civil issue to build on any boundary wall so it would be prudent to get approval from all owners of said party wall, would it not?


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  • Subscribers Posts: 40,547 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    kceire wrote: »
    It’s a civil issue to build on any boundary wall so it would be prudent to get approval from all owners of said party wall, would it not?

    Absolutely it would be prudent... And so much easier in practise.

    However there is a facility to do works to boundary walls without your neighbours permission.


  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 37,768 Mod ✭✭✭✭Gumbo


    sydthebeat wrote: »
    Absolutely it would be prudent... And so much easier in practise.

    However there is a facility to do works to boundary walls without your neighbours permission.

    Sorry yeah totally agree. It was always my opinion that this legislation was only for repair works or similar. I wasn’t sure if it allowed one neighbor to extend with new build?


  • Subscribers Posts: 40,547 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    kceire wrote: »
    Sorry yeah totally agree. It was always my opinion that this legislation was only for repair works or similar. I wasn’t sure if it allowed one neighbor to extend with new build?

    section 44 specifically states:
    Subject to subsection (2), a building owner may carry out works to a party structure for the purpose of

    (a) compliance with any statutory provision or any notice or order under such a provision, or

    (b) carrying out development which is exempted development or development for which planning permission has been obtained or compliance with any condition attached to such permission, or

    (c) preservation of the party structure or of any building or unbuilt-on land of which it forms a part, or

    (d) carrying out any other works which—

    (i) will not cause substantial damage or inconvenience to the adjoining owner, or

    (ii) if they may or will cause such damage or inconvenience, it is nevertheless reasonable to carry them out.

    http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/2009/act/27/enacted/en/print#sec44

    i suppose its there to protect a homeowner from being held to ransom from a non cooperative neighbour.
    its not perfect, and agreement with the adjoining neighbour is ALWAYS better... but at least its an available avenue.


  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 37,768 Mod ✭✭✭✭Gumbo


    sydthebeat wrote: »
    section 44 specifically states:



    http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/2009/act/27/enacted/en/print#sec44

    i suppose its there to protect a homeowner from being held to ransom from a non cooperative neighbour.
    its not perfect, and agreement with the adjoining neighbour is ALWAYS better... but at least its an available avenue.

    Thanks Syd. I actually never read that piece before as I spend so much time just telling the parties to talk to each other and agree.


  • Registered Users Posts: 33,049 ✭✭✭✭Penn


    sydthebeat wrote: »
    section 44 specifically states:



    http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/2009/act/27/enacted/en/print#sec44

    i suppose its there to protect a homeowner from being held to ransom from a non cooperative neighbour.
    its not perfect, and agreement with the adjoining neighbour is ALWAYS better... but at least its an available avenue.

    Agreed, however it opens the ones undertaking the construction up to a potential minefield of problems. Neighbours refusing access onto their property to facilitate the works or preparation/finishing of same, neighbours claiming damage to their property as a result of the works (garden decking/patio etc, not just structure) etc.

    In cases where the neighbour is already objecting to the works in general, they'd likely become a nightmare when the works are being undertaken. Although the provision may be there to allow the owner to build on the party wall, it's something I would never recommend unless it's done with agreement with the neighbour.

    Stepping the wall in a few hundred mm is usually unlikely to have a serious effect on the design of the extension and negates almost all issues the neighbour can object to.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 7 Johndoe121


    Hi all, thanks for the replies and i think we are probably just going to pull the application and proceed with the exempt part and then reapply for the Dormer in the attic when the job has started. It's not ideal as we probably would get the planning but it is just such a worry about delays when we have a builder booked in to start. Meeting the neighbour next week to try and get an agreement on the party wall so hopefully this can be done.


  • Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators Posts: 10,133 Mod ✭✭✭✭BryanF


    How many weeks is application in?

    What drawings did builder price job from?

    And when is builder due to start?


  • Registered Users Posts: 7 Johndoe121


    Hi Bryan, Application came back requesting more information and making the dormer window smaller so we have a few days to get back in updated drawings and then its another 4 weeks from then and another 4 weeks for objections after that i believe. We have the builder booked for the 8th January but if another complaint comes in and the fact with Christmas and New year it could be 10-12 weeks before we are good to go?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 808 ✭✭✭Angry bird


    Longer I'm afraid, Bord Pleanala times have slipped considerably. Hopefully it works out with your neighbour


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