Builder won't complete certificate of compliance

LeoD

Hi there, sorry about the long post...

We 99% completed an extension to our house over 12 months ago. Due to a number of run-ins we had with the builder over time delays and finish quality, when he finally 'finished' the job a year ago, he pretty much left and never tried to contact us again. In theory he would have been due a final payment but due to penalties that would have been imposed for running 6 months over the schedule, the final payment would have been minimal. As he made no effort to contact us and we made many to contact him, what money was left in the pot was spent fixing snags with other contractors. So we are living in the 100% completed house but now we need our builder to sign a certificate of completion. This is not an option with the builder that oversaw most of the work as he has refused to engage with anyone (including our architect) for 12 months. Our plan is to change the name of the assigned builder to me as technically, I was a (self)builder for the last few months of the project by hiring contractors to fix snags around the place. The problem now is will I need certificates of compliance for the work carried out by the various contractors hired by the original builder during the project? I don't have their names and addresses so I don't have any way of contacting them. Our architect is the assigned certifier and he inspected the build every 2-3 weeks (and at the pace the project proceeded, not a lot happened in 2-3 weeks) so he saw everything that was done. Would it be normal for the certifier to insist on compliance certification from every tradesman or would it be enough that with his own eyes he could see that the building complied with building regulations?

Thanks again and any help appreciated.

sydthebeat

LeoD wrote: »

Would it be normal for the certifier to insist on compliance certification from every tradesman or would it be enough that with his own eyes he could see that the building complied with building regulations?
.

to start with this one... not only would it be normal.. it would be very prudent for the assigned certifier to insist on compliance certification from every tradesman.
The AC is basically being asked to take responsibility for other peoples work... so they would certainly be correct to try to dilute any responsibility as much as possible.

what weight they would hold in a court of law is another matter altogether though im afraid.

on the question of changing the nominated builder from a contractor to the owner during the build... im afraid this is a known problem with the BCMS system. Theres technically no facility to change this.

what i would advise is to get in touch with your local building control officer and explain the situation and say you want to upload the final certification with you as the builder, otherwise no completion certs can be offered.

LeoD

Thanks syd,

I spoke with the local building control officer and she was stumped more or less. She couldn't really fathom that the building was finished but we are trying to change the assigned builder now. After explaining the situation I had to rewind, start explaining again but this time pretend that we weren't finished and that I now wanted to take over. This she could comprehend so sent out the forms to change the builder. I must admit that our builder is a special case (an immature idiot for one) but the system doesn't really seem to have any contingency measures available to it when things like this happen unfortunately. Which trades would supply certification - electrics, plumbing, engineering? I presume brick layers and chippies don't supply certs, or do they?

sydthebeat

LeoD wrote: »

Thanks syd,

I spoke with the local building control officer and she was stumped more or less. She couldn't really fathom that the building was finished but we are trying to change the assigned builder now. After explaining the situation I had to rewind, start explaining again but this time pretend that we weren't finished and that I now wanted to take over. This she could comprehend so sent out the forms to change the builder. I must admit that our builder is a special case (an immature idiot for one) but the system doesn't really seem to have any contingency measures available to it when things like this happen unfortunately. Which trades would supply certification - electrics, plumbing, engineering? I presume brick layers and chippies don't supply certs, or do they?

any trade where there is an element of their design of the process or system.

so the obvious ones would be electrics, engineering etc

so for plumbing, did the plumber design the system?
did the carpenter design the sizes and layout of the roof timbers?

etc

LeoD

The architect provided electrical and mechanical layout plans so it was up to the plumbers and electricians to follow which the architect would have observed during construction - would he still require a cert from the electrician and plumber to certify that they installed everything correctly if everything is still working now, 12 months later?

The structural engineer we hired ourselves so shouldn't have a problem with certifying any heavy construction items.

sydthebeat

LeoD wrote: »

The architect provided electrical and mechanical layout plans so it was up to the plumbers and electricians to follow which the architect would have observed during construction - would he still require a cert from the electrician and plumber to certify that they installed everything correctly if everything is still working now, 12 months later?

The structural engineer we hired ourselves so shouldn't have a problem with certifying any heavy construction items.

well the electrician needs to provide a reci cert anyway.. so thats covered.

the plumbler may not entertain being asked for a cert at this stage.

it really should be made aware to them before engagement that they would be required to provide ancillary certification for their work.

LeoD

sydthebeat wrote: »

it really should be made aware to them before engagement that they would be required to provide ancillary certification for their work.

This is the nub of the problem. The original builder, who was recommended by the architect, agreed to all this but now that he refuses to supply any of this certification (and who knows what he said to sub-contractors), so we have 2 options; take legal action against the original builder which will cost time, money and stress or try to resolve this issue ourselves. The job itself is only a 60sq/m extension to a bungalow - we're not talking another Priory Hall - so I just wish the architect (assigned certifier) would sign the compliance certificate based on the fact that he observed the project from start to finish and saw nothing to worry him during that time.

Anyway, thanks for your responses - I don't think there's much more to be said on the issue unfortunately.

sydthebeat

any reason you didnt "opt out" of the BCARs?
did you start before 1st sept 2015?
was this ever offered to you as an option?

RORY O CONNOR

The builder cannot certify the works-he is not qualified to do so! Works can only be certified by a suitably qualified and registered professional such as an Engineer, Building surveyor or Architect, If your Architect is an Architect rather than a Technician he/she should be in a position to certify the works.

Drexl

LeoD wrote: »

This is the nub of the problem. The original builder, who was recommended by the architect, agreed to all this but now that he refuses to supply any of this certification (and who knows what he said to sub-contractors), so we have 2 options; take legal action against the original builder which will cost time, money and stress or try to resolve this issue ourselves. The job itself is only a 60sq/m extension to a bungalow - we're not talking another Priory Hall - so I just wish the architect (assigned certifier) would sign the compliance certificate based on the fact that he observed the project from start to finish and saw nothing to worry him during that time.

Anyway, thanks for your responses - I don't think there's much more to be said on the issue unfortunately.

Hi LeoD, can I ask how this panned out for you?

LeoD

We got an observation of compliance from the architect which satisfied the bank with regards mortgage. The BCMS would appear to be semi-irrelevant so we've just ignored it and left the file open. Our solicitor asked to see the building contract but I haven't got around to giving it to her yet but we're unlikely to take any legal action as I don't think we'll ever gain anything from it. Considering the wild west planning and building culture we have in this country, should our children decide to sell our house after we've died in 40 years time, I don't think the lack of certificates of compliance will negatively impact its sale.

Drexl

LeoD wrote: »

We got an observation of compliance from the architect which satisfied the bank with regards mortgage. The BCMS would appear to be semi-irrelevant so we've just ignored it and left the file open. Our solicitor asked to see the building contract but I haven't got around to giving it to her yet but we're unlikely to take any legal action as I don't think we'll ever gain anything from it. Considering the wild west planning and building culture we have in this country, should our children decide to sell our house after we've died in 40 years time, I don't think the lack of certificates of compliance will negatively impact its sale.

Thanks for update. We are having trouble with our builder so not sure what's going to happen. Anyway, best to stay away from the courts I think, you got your mortgage and as a wise man once said... Take the win.

BryanF

LeoD wrote: »

I presume brick layers and chippies don't supply certs, or do they?

Unless you have this in writing and priced for up front.. you are a consequence of the worst legislation brought in by government in years. brought about by priory hall et al. My apologies on behalf of the construction industry for not standing up to this BS at the time, but a lot of us were on the dole (if we weren’t contractors and could get it..)

Gumbo

LeoD wrote: »

We got an observation of compliance from the architect which satisfied the bank with regards mortgage. The BCMS would appear to be semi-irrelevant so we've just ignored it and left the file open. Our solicitor asked to see the building contract but I haven't got around to giving it to her yet but we're unlikely to take any legal action as I don't think we'll ever gain anything from it. Considering the wild west planning and building culture we have in this country, should our children decide to sell our house after we've died in 40 years time, I don't think the lack of certificates of compliance will negatively impact its sale.

What you could do is to Apply to the building Control section to change the builder on the BCMS to yourself.
Then lodged the required documents and get the completion cert on the register.

It will make things so much easier for the future.