Autumn calvers yes or no

Bo dearg

Hi all. Currently i milk 60 cows on 50 acre block and rear all calves to year and a half. Been considering calving 15 in aug/sept and selling some calves. Land type means a 5 month winter so thinking i may as well be milking some as it would only mean few extra kg of meal. I know autumn calving is nearly a taboo subject but question is am i mad to even consider it. All and any input welcome

whelan2

Bo dearg wrote: »

Hi all. Currently i milk 60 cows on 50 acre block and rear all calves to year and a half. Been considering calving 15 in aug/sept and selling some calves. Land type means a 5 month winter so thinking i may as well be milking some as it would only mean few extra kg of meal. I know autumn calving is nearly a taboo subject but question is am i mad to even consider it. All and any input welcome

Have you any liquid quota?

Bo dearg

whelan2 wrote: »

Have you any liquid quota?

No none at all

amacca

Im not doubting you but how in the name of sweet jesus are you milking 60 cows and rearing their calves on a 50 acre block?

Or am I misinterpreting something.

yewtree

Bo dearg wrote: »

Hi all. Currently i milk 60 cows on 50 acre block and rear all calves to year and a half. Been considering calving 15 in aug/sept and selling some calves. Land type means a 5 month winter so thinking i may as well be milking some as it would only mean few extra kg of meal. I know autumn calving is nearly a taboo subject but question is am i mad to even consider it. All and any input welcome

If you dont gave a liquid quota i cant see how it would pay for all the extra hassle. Coops are only delighted to be getting this milk without having to pay any bonus for it. Also calving in august means having cows dry in june/july the worst time for summer mastitis

whelan2

yewtree wrote: »

If you dont gave a liquid quota i cant see how it would pay for all the extra hassle. Coops are only delighted to be getting this milk without having to pay any bonus for it. Also calving in august means having cows dry in june/july the worst time for summer mastitis

Yes it might seem like a good idea when milk price is high but when it falls you'll be working for nothing

Timmaay

You'd have to pay me at least a 15c/l bonus to go back split calving, with 2 calving seasons, 2 breeding seasons, more groups of animals etc etc.

Bo dearg

amacca wrote: »

Im not doubting you but how in the name of sweet jesus are you milking 60 cows and rearing their calves on a 50 acre block?

Or am I misinterpreting something.

Sorry didnt explain fully. 50 acres around parlour. Cattle on outside parcels.

Bo dearg

whelan2 wrote: »

Yes it might seem like a good idea when milk price is high but when it falls you'll be working for nothing

Finding it difficult to justify it myself its just I'd like to increase output but couldn't add any more to spring calvers. I feel it might be easier to milk extra few cows and rear less calves.

Mooooo

Who are you supplying? Is there a chance of getting into a winter or liquid scheme? You need the bonus as calving cows to milk in the autumn isn't a runner other wise. If you can it is an option to increase output but may mean more work in the spring and autumn buffer feeding. If your gonna do it calve them in 4 to 6 weeks in the autumn and aim for 1st Oct start date would be my advice. Have you facilities for separate groups of cows? Or feeders that will allow you feed extra to autumn cows in winter and less in summer?

Keepgrowing

You will now have 2 groups of cows and three when you've dry cows. You'll have 4 groups of Weanlings and 4 year and halves. This adds major complications.

Look at the price you're receiving from the coop. Is it in the top 10%? If it is consider using more dairy ai and rearing top notch heifers.

Are your cows producing many kg of solids each?

Is your land got to carry 3 cows per ha at 800kg meal?

Bo dearg

Mooooo wrote: »

Who are you supplying? Is there a chance of getting into a winter or liquid scheme? You need the bonus as calving cows to milk in the autumn isn't a runner other wise. If you can it is an option to increase output but may mean more work in the spring and autumn buffer feeding. If your gonna do it calve them in 4 to 6 weeks in the autumn and aim for 1st Oct start date would be my advice. Have you facilities for separate groups of cows? Or feeders that will allow you feed extra to autumn cows in winter and less in summer?

Supplying glanbia so winter bonuses available. Have the facilities for seperate groups and individual parlour feeders. Would all ready be buffer feeding at shoulders

Bo dearg

Keepgrowing wrote: »

You will now have 2 groups of cows and three when you've dry cows. You'll have 4 groups of Weanlings and 4 year and halves. This adds major complications.

Look at the price you're receiving from the coop. Is it in the top 10%? If it is consider using more dairy ai and rearing top notch heifers.

Are your cows producing many kg of solids each?

Is your land got to carry 3 cows per ha at 800kg meal?

Would intend selling all autumn calves and half spring. In the top 10% price wise and delivering 500kg solids. By selling more calves have the option of making more silage for buffering. Full time farmer with 6 kids. Ok now but i know in future 60 cows are not going to make things work. Maybe forget autumn calvers and send better half back to work!!

Dakota Dan

Plenty accidental winter milkers around Cows not holding to ai, going late and not enough replacements.

Future Farmer

I was at the Winter Milk Conference and TJ Flanagan, Chief Executive ICOS pretty much said that the Co-ops pretty much have no need to pay a bonus anymore for winter milk as they get it & more anyway, and all in all the winter milk thing doesn't look good!

Summary from PG on Winter Milk Conference: http://www.progressivegenetics.ie/Blog/Post-Detail/Winter-Milk-Conference-2017

bogman_bass

Bo dearg wrote: »

Finding it difficult to justify it myself its just I'd like to increase output but couldn't add any more to spring calvers. I feel it might be easier to milk extra few cows and rear less calves.

How do you propose to carry the autumn calvers if you cant take more spring calvers?

Future Farmer

Bo dearg wrote: »

Finding it difficult to justify it myself its just I'd like to increase output but couldn't add any more to spring calvers. I feel it might be easier to milk extra few cows and rear less calves.

ZERO Graze or lease, what are your neighbour's doing?

Bo dearg

Future Farmer wrote: »

ZERO Graze or lease, what are your neighbour's doing?

Can't abide zero grazers too labour intensive and half the time drawing in water or grass thats gone too strong. Much prefer to cut bales every 6 wks. If im honest too lazy for zero grazer. Leasing more ground could be difficult around here

mahoney_j

Bo dearg wrote: »

Can't abide zero grazers too labour intensive and half the time drawing in water or grass thats gone too strong. Much prefer to cut bales every 6 wks. If im honest too lazy for zero grazer. Leasing more ground could be difficult around here

Always lots of options re extra feed be in maize grown on contract. Beet,brewers grains or simple 3 way makes x ,often thought of winter milk here but I like break at x mas and Jan and be refreshed for calving late Jan on .an 8 k Ltrs cow producing 600 plus kgms on 1.5 t meal and grass and quality silage stocked at 3.7 /4 cows per he on milk block in spring milk suits me better

yewtree

mahoney_j wrote: »

Always lots of options re extra feed be in maize grown on contract. Beet,brewers grains or simple 3 way makes x ,often thought of winter milk here but I like break at x mas and Jan and be refreshed for calving late Jan on .an 8 k Ltrs cow producing 600 plus kgms on 1.5 t meal and grass and quality silage stocked at 3.7 /4 cows per he on milk block in spring milk suits me better

Every farm has a different correct stocking rate but if you cant grow any more grass and you increase cow numbers through buying more feed the additional cows are effectively eating nothing bùt bought in feed. The feed costs alone of those cows are over €1200/cow, dont see any margin in that.

K.G.

Just out curiosty what are your cows and importantly you throwing out at the moment.there s alot of herds could increase production without milking through the winter(id class myself as one).also if you havent got cows that respond to feeding you re at nothing

Bo dearg

K.G. wrote: »

Just out curiosty what are your cows and importantly you throwing out at the moment.there s alot of herds could increase production without milking through the winter(id class myself as one).also if you havent got cows that respond to feeding you re at nothing

Average yield about 6350 litres 4.3 fat 3.3 pr on about 900kg meal. Thats delivered after rearing all calves.

Bo dearg

mahoney_j wrote: »

Always lots of options re extra feed be in maize grown on contract. Beet,brewers grains or simple 3 way makes x ,often thought of winter milk here but I like break at x mas and Jan and be refreshed for calving late Jan on .an 8 k Ltrs cow producing 600 plus kgms on 1.5 t meal and grass and quality silage stocked at 3.7 /4 cows per he on milk block in spring milk suits me better

Winter milk is certainly not a lifestyle choice more of a life choice. I dont think i have the breeding or ability to match your figures but keep trying. I really cant see it paying just see a lot of "accidental" winter milkers around and wonder am i wrong or is it just cash flow with little profit

Timmaay

Bo dearg wrote: »

Winter milk is certainly not a lifestyle choice more of a life choice. I dont think i have the breeding or ability to match your figures but keep trying. I really cant see it paying just see a lot of "accidental" winter milkers around and wonder am i wrong or is it just cash flow with little profit

Cash flow with most definitely zero profit after putting in any sort of labour charge. Your yield figures not bad aside from the protein, especially if you are a Glanbia supplier (protein alot more valuable in their payments structure), if you could bring that up to 3.6 (which many b&w herds are doing) you'd take home close to 2.5c/l more, or 9k on your 60cows.

Bo dearg

Timmaay wrote: »

Cash flow with most definitely zero profit after putting in any sort of labour charge. Your yield figures not bad aside from the protein, especially if you are a Glanbia supplier (protein alot more valuable in their payments structure), if you could bring that up to 3.6 (which many b&w herds are doing) you'd take home close to 2.5c/l more, or 9k on your 60cows.

Sorry should have said 3.6 pr on previous post not 3.3. I think everyone has confirmed my thinking on it that without liquid contract its just not worth it and with all the lads willing to milk on and calf all year round co ops wont have much need for any liquid contract milk in near future. Cheers for all the replies

Panch18

Bo dearg wrote: »

Sorry should have said 3.6 pr on previous post not 3.3. I think everyone has confirmed my thinking on it that without liquid contract its just not worth it and with all the lads willing to milk on and calf all year round co ops wont have much need for any liquid contract milk in near future. Cheers for all the replies

Stick to what your at and if its a good milk price year like this year then milk them on a few weeks longer. There's a few quid to be made this year and you can still have a nice 6 weeks off