Afraid I won't get development job after college.

LegacyUser

PI

Hi All,

My issue is a pretty simple one compared to what others post here, but I feel I need some advice/guidance.

I'm afraid I won't get a job after I graduate from college. At the moment I'm in 4th year of computer science in a relatively small college. The course load this year is tough, but I'm getting through it, and I always get though it, while constantly achieving a 2:1. I work hard, long hours don't phase me, and I love development.

I understand courses outside of college, and not relating to course material to improve my skill set. I'm currently working through a Node/Mongo course is, and I have been using these skills for my final year project. I also have skills in PHP/MYSQL, Javascript, CSS and HTML. I also have an OK understanding of Java, and have touch on C#/.net. I feel I should be doing C# and.net for my project and not node as job opportunities seem more prominent in C#.

My main reason for this fear is the fact that I didn't manage to achieve an internship in semester 2 of third year. I had 2 interviews. For the first position I had an interview in front of a panel of 3, but I didn't get that. For the second one I succeeded in a phone screening with the lead developer, and had a second round interview after that with the CEO. I didnt proceed after that. I made the mistake of only applying for paid internships, and not unpaid. Which in hindsight was stupid.

How hard is it for a graduate in today's climate? How will I fair come may?

Tenigate

If you know your stuff and you're interested in your work, you already have a headstart over most grads.
Start building a portfolio of work you can show off. Continue to look into internships.. maybe a J1 where the internship is paid.
Don't neglect software testing modules as there are entry level jobs there.

BnB

OP - Can I ask you a quick question. Even though you didn't get an internship, have you worked (or are you currently working while studying ) in any other jobs. Even anything non-computer related - Your standard student jobs - Shops, bars etc... ?

LegacyUser

GingerLily wrote: »

Have you posted on Boards before about this?
I don't work in your industry but I do know a few people who needed to take unpaid internships after college to get experience and to show employers that they're pro active. It was definitely a mistake to overlook them for your summer internship and I hope you've learnt from that.

I have posted on boards before, but not in relation to this.

I honestly couldn't afford to take an internship during the summer, as I needed to work for college fees and to have money to keep me going during the year.

Tenigate wrote: »

If you know your stuff and you're interested in your work, you already have a headstart over most grads.
Start building a portfolio of work you can show off. Continue to look into internships.. maybe a J1 where the internship is paid.
Don't neglect software testing modules as there are entry level jobs there.

I feel like I have skills, but I don't know if they're the industry standard. I have a GitHub account when I'm adding projects. Hopefully, that will go way towards helping me.

At the moment I'm working on multiple projects in college that use a variety of skills, which when complete will really help my profile imo.
I'm working on an android application.
A web app for my final year project (Node/Mongo/Angular)
A Java project using Jersey, JaxRS and a database.

BnB wrote: »

OP - Can I ask you a quick question. Even though you didn't get an internship, have you worked (or are you currently working while studying ) in any other jobs. Even anything non-computer related - Your standard student jobs - Shops, bars etc... ?

Yes, I have. I worked in Penneys for the last 3 months of 2015 part-time during college.

I also worked in landscaping with my dad's company during the summers of 2015, 2016, and 2017. This was part-time and only when work was available. I could have 2 weeks of work, then nothing for a week. I also worked between November 2016 and March 2017.

Permabear

This post has been deleted.

Neyite

Mod:

A reminder to ALL - if a poster is anonymous, then it's their right to remain so. Do not link to previous threads or speculate on the identity of the poster.

Posts have been deleted.

screamer

OP you know there are many flavours of Dev jobs. All comp science grads come out of college poisoned with the ideas that only development jobs are good. In fairness pure Dev jobs as in writing code are few and far between and from what I've seen over the years are far from glorious. In Dev though there are testing Jobs, UX jobs, documentation jobs etc. Don't worry go out there with a positive attitude and your qualifications and you'll be fine. Oh and start sending your CV out now and get to career fairs and get applying for jobs. Good luck. The it industry is wide, varied and thankfully steady unlike when I graduated way back when.

micks_address

Some companies do graduate programs that might be worth looking at. As others have said build a portfolio of project work. At interview be able to show examples of projects you have done either in college or on your own time. We had a graduate in a couple of years ago who thought because they got a good mark in java they were a shoe in for a job. I'd be much more impressed with a candidate who can talk about development they have done. Be able to talk about things like source control, deployments, continuous integration and delivery. For some companies agile methodologies are big, very easy to swat up on and be able to talk about scrum team, stand ups, retros etc

Remember you're a graduate so your enthusiasm and being able to convey you know what you are talking about will be get you much more than top marks in an exam.

As others have also mentioned you are probably entering the industry with the strongest growth out there. Companies can't hire people.

Don't be afraid to consider companies outside of Ireland to.

Best of luck

Cheers,
Mick

Stheno

If you are getting through initial screening via phone etc and getting nowhere with face to face interviews get some training on doing interviews

Tiddlypeeps

screamer wrote: »

In fairness pure Dev jobs as in writing code are few and far between

I don't know where you're getting that from but it's completely untrue. Developers are in really high demand the world over, including Ireland. Granted most would be based in Dublin but they are still there.

OP It can be tough to land your first job but after that as long as you are at least somewhat good at it then lots of options start opening up from there. To maximise your chances of landing your first job make sure you have sample projects you can point to that you are proud of, participate in open source projects, do lots of practice for whiteboard coding style interview questions. Read some books on writing good code. (if nothing else find some time to read Clean Code by Robert Martin, it's a relatively light read compared to other programming books and uses Java as sample code but it's totally relevant to all languages). Doing even a subset of those things should put you head and shoulders above most graduates you'll be competing with for jobs.

I wouldn't worry too much about not having an internship behind you. If a company dismisses your CV based on that then they probably weren't looking for graduates in the first place. Everything else can be made up for by aceing the interview.

Sesame

In my last couple of months of college, I used the UK graduate job sites and secured a few phone interviews. It's a few years back, but they had better pay, benefits and graduate training programs than any Irish opportunities at the time.
They also loved my rounded education and communication skills, which I think is an Irish thing.
I spent some money travelling that summer over and back for interviews but well worth it and ended qup having to chose from about 4 different options. In my opinion, for computer science grads, go to London.

qwerty13

I’m going to say something that you won’t like, but I think both points are important to keep in mind:

1) when you get a job, even if it is in the type of company / industry you dream of, you will be starting at the bottom. In my experience, no one is going to let you loose doing dev, testing or analysis until they know that you can be trusted in the real world, ie until you can prove that you have handled real world scenarios. If you can prove that you can do so, on time, and with budget, only then will you progress.

Trying the ‘but I’m a grad and I got x in my results’ does not go down at all well. There is always bottom of the barrel work to be done, and until you’ve proved yourself, you will be doing that grunt work.

2) I really believe that you need to rethink your attitude. You could be the most astounding techie ever, but unless you can communicate with people, you may be delivering elegant code; but it may well not meet what is actually required. I’m sorry, but the way you write here - which could well be a more casual way than you would do in a workplace - comes across as somewhat arrogant and entitled. I don’t say that to be nasty, I’m just saying that I think you might need to work on your communication skills.

It’s also a huge skill to be able to genuinely listen to what is required. It saves time, money, revisiting work, and (often more importantly) p*ssing people off and causing a loss of confidence in a project. I don’t think you realise how important such skills are in an IT context, as a huge amount of money can be wasted in delivering a project where a system does not get used due to people simply not being listened to, or even people having being mostly listened to, but having a sh*t relationship with the IT project team. Money down the drain if that happens - and you do not need to be associated with that, in my experience. It’s not good for your rep - even internally in companies - to be associated with ‘that project that got canned’ or worse ‘that project that had x spent on it and still got canned’.

LLMMLL

qwerty13 wrote: »

I’m going to say something that you won’t like, but I think both points are important to keep in mind:

1) when you get a job, even if it is in the type of company / industry you dream of, you will be starting at the bottom. In my experience, no one is going to let you loose doing dev, testing or analysis until they know that you can be trusted in the real world, ie until you can prove that you have handled real world scenarios. If you can prove that you can do so, on time, and with budget, only then will you progress.

Trying the ‘but I’m a grad and I got x in my results’ does not go down at all well. There is always bottom of the barrel work to be done, and until you’ve proved yourself, you will be doing that grunt work.

2) I really believe that you need to rethink your attitude. You could be the most astounding techie ever, but unless you can communicate with people, you may be delivering elegant code; but it may well not meet what is actually required. I’m sorry, but the way you write here - which could well be a more casual way than you would do in a workplace - comes across as somewhat arrogant and entitled. I don’t say that to be nasty, I’m just saying that I think you might need to work on your communication skills.

It’s also a huge skill to be able to genuinely listen to what is required. It saves time, money, revisiting work, and (often more importantly) p*ssing people off and causing a loss of confidence in a project. I don’t think you realise how important such skills are in an IT context, as a huge amount of money can be wasted in delivering a project where a system does not get used due to people simply not being listened to, or even people having being mostly listened to, but having a sh*t relationship with the IT project team. Money down the drain if that happens - and you do not need to be associated with that, in my experience. It’s not good for your rep - even internally in companies - to be associated with ‘that project that got canned’ or worse ‘that project that had x spent on it and still got canned’.

I have no idea where you got all this. The OP was very clear and reasonably eloquent in stating his issue. He is worried that he may not get a certain kind of job and is actively working on upping his skill set. I read zero entitlement or social issues in his post. I read zero unprofessionalism. Are you projecting?

Stheno

Stheno wrote: »

If you are getting through initial screening via phone etc and getting nowhere with face to face interviews get some training on doing interviews

Yea, OP. If you keep not getting through in in-person interviews, then the issue is likely you and not with your qualifications/skills.

As Stheno mentioned, get some training or even apply for jobs you might not necessarily want, just to get practice with real-world interviews.

Some tips I've picked up through the years:

1) Arrive early

2) Don't sit down in the few minutes before your interview. This means your clothes won't be ruffled from sitting (which you might subconsciously try to fix as they're approaching). It will also prevent your diaphragm from adjusting by moving from standing to sitting. This could give you a squeaky/croaky voice.

3) Get in contact with the HR department, look for images of the people in the work-place environment, contact people working there.

Try and find out what people's day-to-day office wear is like. If people are in casual clothes, don't turn up in a suit. If they all wear suits/shirts & ties, don't turn up in casual clothes.

This obviously depends job-to-job, but in my experience, most software development jobs would be casual wear. So a shirt/slacks would suffice.

Edit: Worth mentioning that I've heard many times that interviewers know whether they're going to hire someone within the first few minutes, so make those count. Be confident from the outset. Eye contact. Shake hands. Don't appear nervous.

VonBeanie

OP. Have you considered doing a Masters in a bigger college?

Also check out Gradireland.com

GingerLily

VonBeanie wrote: »

OP. Have you considered doing a Masters in a bigger college?

Also check out Gradireland.com

The OPs problem isn't his education - he needs to get into the work force and start actual work rather then college projects.

VonBeanie

GingerLily wrote: »

The OPs problem isn't his education - he needs to get into the work force and start actual work rather then college projects.

The only relevant experience that an employer is going to be interested in is Coding experience, which is what OP is having difficulty getting. A masters from a large university like UCD would give OP a choice of graduate Dev jobs.

amtc

There was an article in yesterday's Irish Times 're where jobs would be available in IT. Sorry can't link as have used up my free items this week

Reactor

Do you think 34 is too old for a switch in career to IT/Dev stuff?

VonBeanie

Reactor wrote: »

Do you think 34 is too old for a switch in career to IT/Dev stuff?

No - but its harder studying as a mature student, and you're first jobs after qualifying will be at Grad levels which may be financially difficult.

I reckon that the industries that need people the most are; IT/Development and Animation/Movie Production. Was talking to a buddy of mine recently and said they were struggling to find people to fill animation roles, resorting to international hires to fill gaps.

Hrududu

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Try and find out what people's day-to-day office wear is like. If people are in casual clothes, don't turn up in a suit. If they all wear suits/shirts & ties, don't turn up in casual clothes.

This obviously depends job-to-job, but in my experience, most software development jobs would be casual wear. So a shirt/slacks would suffice.

Id err on the side of caution. Most IT places I've worked have had a casual dress code but you'd still always wear a suit to the interview. Nobody will turn you down for a job because you wore a suit to the interview. But there is always a chance a persnickety person would judge you harshly for not wearing one.

BrokenArrows

OP you will find a job when you leave college.
There is plenty of work everywhere in all aspects of computing.

Im a developer and the quality of junior developers i see is shockingly bad.
If you are anyway half decent then you will be fine.

No employer expects you to know everything out of college.
Build up your git hub.
Contribute to some open source projects that interest you.

Try and practice and polish your interview skills and just relax.
You have 50 years of work ahead of you. Dont stress about having to find a job in the first few months after graduating.

server down

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Yea, OP. If you keep not getting through in in-person interviews, then the issue is likely you and not with your qualifications/skills.

As Stheno mentioned, get some training or even apply for jobs you might not necessarily want, just to get practice with real-world interviews.

Some tips I've picked up through the years:

1) Arrive early

2) Don't sit down in the few minutes before your interview. This means your clothes won't be ruffled from sitting (which you might subconsciously try to fix as they're approaching). It will also prevent your diaphragm from adjusting by moving from standing to sitting. This could give you a squeaky/croaky voice.

3) Get in contact with the HR department, look for images of the people in the work-place environment, contact people working there.

Try and find out what people's day-to-day office wear is like. If people are in casual clothes, don't turn up in a suit. If they all wear suits/shirts & ties, don't turn up in casual clothes.

This obviously depends job-to-job, but in my experience, most software development jobs would be casual wear. So a shirt/slacks would suffice.

Edit: Worth mentioning that I've heard many times that interviewers know whether they're going to hire someone within the first few minutes, so make those count. Be confident from the outset. Eye contact. Shake hands. Don't appear nervous.

In reality this has nothing to do with how developer jobs are interviewed. It varies but google for instance won’t care a jot about your personality. It’s all code.