World Day of Remembrance - Making the roads safer for Cyclists

Kaisr Sose

On this day to remember all road traffic victims, let’s think of all cyclists that make up some of the 24,000 recorded Irish victims since records began, some 60 years ago. Yes – that’s 24,000. It’s a truly shocking figure.

I thought it would be interesting to start a discussion on what we as cyclists would like to see adopted as policy or implemented to improve awareness of cyclists and their rights on the road (under the RTA)

To kick this off my wish list is:

Greater resources directed to Traffic Corp to enforce existing legislation
(This:https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/150-additional-gardai-to-be-added-to-traffic-corps-in-bid-to-reduce-road-deaths-36333805.html will help)
More use of technology (average speed detectors, red light jumping detection) to detect motoring Offences /dangerous driving.
Mandatory re-testing of anyone convicted of a motoring offence
Automatic rules of the road theory exams at driving licence renewal date
Immediate introduction of minimum passing legislation
Stricter enforcement aginst cyclists passing red lights and cycling without lights
Introduce Jaywalking legislation
Prohibit taxis from picking passengers/fares from the roadside in cities (dedicated ranks only/bookings only)
Perhaps contentious, a rules of the road theory test for all cyclists (in my view the awareness of how to cycle safely is something many don’t have)

fat bloke

That's a hell of a lot of stick there, and very little carrot!

crosstownk

I'd be happy enough to see the current rules enforced for ALL road users. Then we can move to stage two - whatever that is.

magicbastarder

Kaisr Sose wrote: »

Introduce Jaywalking legislation

such as?
we already have a law about crossing at pedestrian crossings.

fat bloke

As usual, the Bible has the answer. Doubting Thomas's need to put their fingers in the holes in Jesus' hands for themselves.

Five minutes on a bike, in traffic, would do more to make drivers understand, than any amount of revenue/resentment-raising fines and penalties.

Wishbone Ash

Kaisr Sose wrote: »

...Prohibit taxis from picking passengers/fares from the roadside in cities (dedicated ranks only/bookings only)

That would be ludicrous and defeat the whole purpose of having a taxi service (and it would just turn it into a hackney service).

Kaisr Sose wrote:

...a rules of the road theory test for all cyclists..

All cyclists?

We're trying to encourage people to cycle more. Are you suggesting a 5 year old should have to sit a theory test?

Felexicon

fat bloke wrote:

Five minutes on a bike, in traffic, would do more to make drivers understand, than any amount of revenue/resentment-raising fines and penalties.

Was just going to suggest this.
I've recently switched over from car to a bike for my daily commute and have taken a few weekend spins too.
The only way to really appreciate what it's like to have cars flying by you with seemingly no regard for your safety is to experience it yourself.
One spin through the Airport roundabout at rush hour should do the trick.

magicbastarder

i'll mention my much-repeated theory of how to get better behaviour from motorists - on receipt of penalty points, the vehicle in which they were incurred must -within one week - be surrendered to be impounded for the same number of days as points levied.
we'd need a bloody big car pound though.

Kaisr Sose

fat bloke wrote: »

That's a hell of a lot of stick there, and very little carrot!

I don’t dissagree but the softly softly /educational /advisory approach has led to a free for all. How do you modify behaviour without sanction or change in policy?

Kaisr Sose

magicbastarder wrote: »

such as?
we already have a law about crossing at pedestrian crossings.

Fair point but it’s not enforced. As far as I know it’s not illegal to Jaywalk in general.

magicbastarder

i 'jaywalk' all the time. that said, it's a concept which should not exist.
i don't think we should conflate the idea of a pedestrian stepping out in front of traffic without looking, with the idea that stepping into a road is inherently dangerous and has to be legislated for.

Kaisr Sose

Wishbone Ash wrote: »

That would be ludicrous and defeat the whole purpose of having a taxi service (and it would just turn it into a hackney service).


All cyclists?

We're trying to encourage people to cycle more. Are you suggesting a 5 year old should have to sit a theory test?

In Switzerland, taxis are not allowed to stop at random locations. It works there.

I meant Adult, or perhaps over 16. Some people cycling do not know the rules of the road. That could get them killed or seriously injured. Then they became a statistic. What’s wrong with setting a standard that facilitates/encourages safe and responsible cycling? Getting loads of people on to the roads on bikes has been great, but in itself created a significant problem in terms of volume/capacity.

Maybe the general “sure its grand” or “what's your problem with the way it is” approach will work out in the end?

24,000 people killed on Irish road in 60 years.....

Ok. Changing tact. What’s are we doing that’s right?

Someone needs to invent something which makes holding a phone while driving impossible no matter how much you're addicted to social media. I don't face a lot of the issues the Dublin people face with buses and taxis etc. but noddies are universal and not tied to a gender, vehicle or age profile.

Wishbone Ash

Kaisr Sose wrote: »

...24,000 people killed on Irish road in 60 years.....

Ok. Changing tact. What’s are we doing that’s right?

Many people have a sort of nostalgic or romanticized view of utilising public roads 50 years ago but they seem to forget that the road fatalities in the 1960's were horrendous compared to nowadays yet there was only about 25% of the amount of motor vehicles around then compared to now.

Wishbone Ash

Kaisr Sose wrote: »

...I meant Adult, or perhaps over 16....

OK, so someone can freely access public roads for years but upon reaching 16 years of age, they must pass a theory test to continue to access those roads.

Back to the drawing board methinks.

Kaisr Sose

Wishbone Ash wrote: »

OK, so someone can freely access public roads for years but upon reaching 16 years of age, they must pass a theory test to continue to access those roads.

Back to the drawing board methinks.

Looks more like nit picking now with comments like that. We can have the rest at 5 if you think it’s better then (you are raising a point here that contradicts your earlier comment rhetorically asking should we test 5 year olds)

There is an age of responsibility outside of which you can’t set official tests but you can start to educate and inform. I would say you know that. Parents have a role and I believe some or all schools teach road safety, perhaps in conjunction with the RSA. I will bow to your superior knowledge of how best to educate kids to protect and preserve their lives while cycling to school/social events.

I don’t have the answers, but we have to start somewhere. What would you suggest? Or are you more the that won’t work type.

RGS

It would be helpful if the Gardaí actually enforced the current rules.

Last Thursday evening around 5.15pm on the Malahide road a car was double parked and blocking the cycle lane. A garda car was stopped at the traffic lights 20 yard past the junction. They actually drove past this parked car.

I asked them to take action but I was basically harangued by one of the gardai who then goes "we must set up checkpoints to catch cyclists without lights".

Wishbone Ash

Kaisr Sose wrote: »

Looks more like nit picking now with comments like that.....

I realise I'm nit picking but when it comes to legislation, you have to nit pick. Hence the reason why the state has to employ hundreds of draughtsmen to construct the statute instruments and even with that, the legal profession will find loopholes.

There is a minimum age requirement to drive motorised vehicles on public roads making it relatively easy to regulate. On the other hand, there is no minimum age for walking, cycling or being in charge of animal drawn vehicles all of which were around long before motor vehicles and therefore much more difficult to legislate for.

Apologies if I came across as negative and I accept your general point that you have to start somewhere.

triggermortis

I'd like to see more enforcement of the rules we already have for all road users.

Schools could do more to educate cycling skills. When I was at school in the UK (many years ago) we were all taught RoSPA cycling proficiency - and got certificates and badges for it. When we lived in Zurich, my sons school had an area of the play yard marked out with lines for cycling handling lessons - taught in school time and monitored by the local police.

Alun

triggermortis wrote: »

Schools could do more to educate cycling skills. When I was at school in the UK (many years ago) we were all taught RoSPA cycling proficiency - and got certificates and badges for it.

Same here. I wasn't allowed by my parents to ride my bike to school until I'd passed the cycling proficiency test.

When we lived in Zurich, my sons school had an area of the play yard marked out with lines for cycling handling lessons - taught in school time and monitored by the local police.

I was in Vienna recently and in one of the big parks near the hotel there was a Schulverkehrsgarten laid out with roads, junctions, road signs and traffic lights with loads of small kids on bikes being taught by the local police. Seemed to be part of the primary school curriculum there.