How fcuked would we be if the Chinese stopped sending us stuff

Ubbquittious

All those container ships making their way out of Shenzhen are filled mostly with useless trinkets and stuff we don't need that will be headed for the landfill shortly after arrival or sent back to China in order to be recycled into next year's useless trinket we don't want or need.

But what happens if we're no longer able to get all that stuff from them? Amongst all the sh1te there is probably plastic syringes and other medical stuff in those container ships that people's lives depend on.

Would Europe and the rest of the world survive if China closed their borders Kim Jong-il style? The art of making physical objects has been mostly forgotten in the rest of the world

worded

Wall tapestries from china anyone ?

https://m.rosegal.com/tapestry/shop/

punisher5112

Fooping fidget spinners.......


What the fook

Wibbs

Ubbquittious wrote: »

The art of making physical objects has been mostly forgotten in the rest of the world

No it hasn't. We make plenty in the west and other areas outside China. They can do it cheaply because of cheap labour and economies of scale. We could take up most of the slack. Some stuff would become more expensive, but that might be a grid thing longterm, certainly for the environment.

cantdecide

Orthopedic saw blades branded "Product of Ireland" filled me with pride while working in Auckland City Hospital. I helped build the factory that makes the same blades years and years ago.

Local sourcing and production has been finding a new emphasis in business procurement internationally. I doubt that's going to extend to every doodad and widget but I'm stunned at what we still make in the West.

Hande hoche!

Quite a bit of stuff that was formerly made in the PRC is being produced in the likes of Vietnam and Bangladesh nowadays. Don't think it would have as much of an impact as say ten years ago.

_Brian

Not as fuucked up as their economy would be.
The Chinese have built up a staggering proportion of their economy based solely on our need for cheap useless tat. Start closing swathes of factories and they would quickly feel the loss of the € & $ flowing onto their country plus the mass unemployment it would cause.

I don’t believe they would willingly stop trading goods West.

tomwaterford

Would pointless trinkets and crap be any loss though

The_Valeyard

Well my Friday night take away would be a little less fun.

m5ex9oqjawdg2i

tomwaterford wrote: »

Would pointless trinkets and crap be any loss though

Electrical machinery is the number one export, machinery including computers is second. Neither are pointless trinkets or crap.

Lux23

I would have thought it would be the components they make for electrical and household items that we would miss? If making these things is more expensive in the West then you might not get a telly for 150 quid anymore.

OnDraught

It would probably be a good thing. They have no concept of copyright. The amount of fishing gear on Alliexpress that is just a clone of one of the European or American brands is staggering. I have ordered some of it to see what it’s like and the quality is never the same.

Ubbquittious

cantdecide wrote: »

Orthopedic saw blades branded "Product of Ireland" filled me with pride while working in Auckland City Hospital. I helped build the factory that makes the same blades years and years ago.

Local sourcing and production has been finding a new emphasis in business procurement internationally. I doubt that's going to extend to every doodad and widget but I'm stunned at what we still make in the West.

What about 10kΩ through-hole resistors though? If a big expensive machine breaks and needs a new resistor there will be nowhere to get one outside of China unless we cannibalise our own scrap electronics

There's also more complicated electronic components that I'd say are only made in China

Tom Mann Centuria

Bargain Alerts forum would be no more.

Foxhound38

As long as the spice bags keep coming there won't be riots on the streets.

jmayo

Ubbquittious wrote: »

All those container ships making their way out of Shenzhen are filled mostly with useless trinkets and stuff we don't need that will be headed for the landfill shortly after arrival or sent back to China in order to be recycled into next year's useless trinket we don't want or need.

But what happens if we're no longer able to get all that stuff from them? Amongst all the sh1te there is probably plastic syringes and other medical stuff in those container ships that people's lives depend on.

Would Europe and the rest of the world survive if China closed their borders Kim Jong-il style? The art of making physical objects has been mostly forgotten in the rest of the world

tomwaterford wrote: »

Would pointless trinkets and crap be any loss though

Why do people assume it is just pointless stuff like fidget spinners or some such stuff.
Check out any desk in most offices and you will find the computer, tablet, the printer, the scanner, the pencil parer, the pens, the pen holder, the stapler have all been made in China.
Hell the desk might even have been made in China.

Even when you buy electronics from a major US, Japanese, or Korean manufacturer there is a huge chance it may have been built in China or some of the sub-components at least have been built in China.

High end medical devices are now being provided by Chinese companies that are beginning to compete against the big guys like GE, Seimens, Phillips.
Of course this stuff is not as good or is often a carbon copy that they have backward engineered, but it is selling well in poorer countries that can't afford major western manufacturers very high prices.

Actually the very fact that sub-components have been sourced from Chinese suppliers, who often cut costs by using substandard manufacturing techniques and materials has been causing some in Japanese industry unease.
They have been trying to get Chinese suppliers to sign up to their quality guidelines.
One place this has had a consumer effect is in areas such as electrical safety.

Now someone here said we have forgotten how to make stuff and this is true to some regard, but it is more true of places like the UK which has divested itself of manufacturing since the thatcher 80s.
Countries like Germany, Italy still have a lot of manufacturing companies.
And a lot of manufacturing is carried out in Eastern Europe and other Asian countries like Turkey, Malaysia, Taiwan, Vietnam.

Cordell

For a while, we will be royally fooked. After that while Europe will develop a healthier industry, and drive more automation and innovation. Lots of stuff will be more expensive and maybe we will start to do those things again, you know, unimaginable things like repairing your telly instead of throwing it away for a new one.

HOWEVER, China is also a big market, so losing access to it may bring down a lot of big companies, which will not be good. And China has some very valuable and rare resources, if I remember correctly we will not be able to get enough litium for batteries without theirs.

4068ac1elhodqr

Once cheap, large, low-energy additive 3D printers become globally available
(that use some sort of 100% recyclable carbon-nano-graphine type stuff), their export game is up.

As such, they have already realised this, and are currently:
i) Building stealth forces that will overtake the US (in any theater, including mars/space) by 2030.
ii) Sweeping up large swathes of arable land across Africa for future rice and pork type provisions.
iii) Magically Island building where there was no islands before for an expanding empire.

cantdecide

Ubbquittious wrote: »

What about 10kΩ through-hole resistors though?

I can sort you out for those €10/pc okay for you?

Cordell

Once cheap, large, low-energy additive 3D printers become globally available
(that use some sort of 100% recyclable carbon-nano-graphine type stuff), their export game is up.

And replicators, once we have replicators all will be perfect.

Ubbquittious

Cordell wrote: »

HOWEVER, China is also a big market, so losing access to it may bring down a lot of big companies, which will not be good. And China has some very valuable and rare resources, if I remember correctly we will not be able to get enough litium for batteries without theirs.

Do we really sell much to China?

After that lad Xi Kingping visited we were drip fed a constant stream of articles of "Ohh! Look, the Chinese brought a few bags of cattle feed off us! Ohh! Look! There are some actual Chinese people who came here on holidays this year"

cantdecide

Ubbquittious wrote: »

Do we really sell much to China?

Huge market for Irish dairy products. I used to work in pharma much of our product ended up there too.

Cordell

Ubbquittious wrote: »

Do we really sell much to China?

We do, even if the stuff is actually manufactured there, the cash still flows towards the western corporations that do business here. If those corporations loose the Chinese business they may get in trouble, which can mean stock markets going down, redundancies and closures. It's a global economy today like it or not, losing such a big market is trouble, at least for the short term.

Also there is the non-physical stuff like software, videogames, music, film, internet business, R&D done in Ireland that goes into products sold everywhere including China, and so on.

Ubbquittious

Cordell wrote: »

We do, even if the stuff is actually manufactured there, the cash still flows towards the western corporations that do business here. If those corporations loose the Chinese business they may get in trouble, which can mean stock markets going down, redundancies and closures. It's a global economy today like it or not, losing such a big market is trouble, at least for the short term.

Also there is the non-physical stuff like software, videogames, music, film, internet business, R&D done in Ireland that goes into products sold everywhere including China, and so on.

The non-physical stuff they can just hold on to if they wish. The people's liberation army can march into the offices and factories and tell the well-dressed grinning overweight Western execs to feck off home while keeping the factory open if they so wish. Once all the required technology is in China the smirking Western exec is nothing but a parasite. The only reason not to shoot him is the diplomatic fallout from the country he came from.

Cordell

Most factories don' even have those "well-dressed grinning overweight Western execs" to be thrown out or shot on the spot.
Also, actions like you recommend happened before throughout history, but never ended well.

Luckycharms_74

Ubbquittious wrote: »

Do we really sell much to China?

cantdecide wrote: »

Huge market for Irish dairy products. I used to work in pharma much of our product ended up there too.

As posted above we have a huge export market to China for dairy products especially baby formula and a new chinese food production facility being set up in Ireland specifically for that demand.

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/ireland/factory-deal-set-to-boost-exports-of-baby-formula

wrote:

"Newbaze, a Chinese food production company, spent almost €2 million to set up an Irish production facility to take advantage of the fast-growing demand for baby formula in China."

"Ireland is the second biggest supplier of infant formula to China with a 14.6 per cent share as of April this year. "

“Ireland performed well on the Chinese market with total dairy exports reaching over €633.5 million and exports to the mainland increasing by 40 per cent,”

Ubbquittious

Luckycharms_74 wrote: »

As posted above we have a huge export market to China for dairy products especially baby formula and a new chinese food production facility being set up in Ireland specifically for that demand.

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/ireland/factory-deal-set-to-boost-exports-of-baby-formula

Doesn't bode well for us. We're so lazy we depend on the Chinese to come over here and set up a factory to make baby formula

marieholmfan

Cordell wrote: »

Most factories don' even have those "well-dressed grinning overweight Western execs" to be thrown out or shot on the spot.
Also, actions like you recommend happened before throughout history, but never ended well.

Except most obviously in China.

beefburrito

Oh I remember the days of school ruler's made in China.
Those wooden ones....
10p

I don't buy anything from China it's pure rubbish.

Especially their fishing gear, anything I buy will be with Swiss, American,or Japanese.

Garden tools,Swiss.
Watches Swiss.
Fishing gear USA Sweden or Japan.

Clothes, German, Italian or British

Arran jumper's Blarney wollen mills

Capt'n Midnight

beefburrito wrote: »

I don't buy anything from China it's pure rubbish.

Oh but you do.

What phone do you have ?
What chips and plastics and widgets are in it ?
Anything electrical probably has Chinese components.

Lots of fabrics are made in China.

Anything magnetic , China.

It's got to the stupid stage where Scottish salmon is sent to China to be processed and sent back again.

- a great bunch of lads.

jmayo

beefburrito wrote: »

Oh I remember the days of school ruler's made in China.
Those wooden ones....
10p

I don't buy anything from China it's pure rubbish.

Especially their fishing gear, anything I buy will be with Swiss, American,or Japanese.

Garden tools,Swiss.
Watches Swiss.
Fishing gear USA Sweden or Japan.

Clothes, German, Italian or British

Arran jumper's Blarney wollen mills

You think you don't buy anything from China.

Do you seriously think all your clothes comes from Germany, Italy or Britain?
I would say somethings come from sweatshops, not always in China mind, but somewhere maybe like Vietnam, Cambodia, Bangladesh.

As Capt'n Midnight said anything electronic in your house if not built/assembled in China, they definitely have some components built there.

Specifically anything electronic from the last 10 years.
Almost every computer and tablet is now Chinese built to a large degree.

Also even if you buy well known European, Japanese or American brands you will find they have stuff made in China or at least some parts made in China.

For instance in power tools pretty well known more high end brands like Bosch Professional (German), Makita (Japan), Milwaukee (USA) have things made in China.

Everything made in China is not rubbish.
See iphone as a prime example.

But I do have a worry specifically around electrical items because the Japanese have been able to trace problems in things like batteries, power adapters down to the way some Chinese subcontractor manufacturers have produced them or the cheaper materials they have used.
The issue is lack of quality control somewhere in the supply chain.

And if anything as times goes on China is going more upmarket much like South Korea and Japan did in the past.
Countries like Thailand and Vietnam are becoming the new China.
Hell after US regulators upheld hefty tariffs on Samsung and LG brand washing machines made in China they have started to move production to the above countries.