Feedback for a race director

Claude Burgundy

As a race director for a charity event my goal is always to get as much money for the charities while providing runners with a quality event, so.................

I am wondering what you feel is too much to pay for a 10k, what you expect from an event and what influences your decision when booking.

All feedback is welcome.

RayCun

About 30 euro*

AAI registered, officially measured

Closed roads, or otherwise separated from traffic

Money going back into the sport, eg club fundraiser

Good quality field

Positive reports from people who have run it before

Prizes/team competitions/Dublin or region medals

Some things are basics that I expect of every race - adequate stewards, starts on time, clear communication, parking, food afterwards. A very big race gets a pass on the last one, obviously, as long as there is some sort of goodie bag.

* for a race that has road closures and 'frills'

dublin runner

RayCun wrote: »

About 30 euro*

AAI registered, officially measured

Closed roads, or otherwise separated from traffic

Money going back into the sport, eg club fundraiser

Good quality field

Positive reports from people who have run it before

Prizes/team competitions/Dublin or region medals

Some things are basics that I expect of every race - adequate stewards, starts on time, clear communication, parking, food afterwards. A very big race gets a pass on the last one, obviously, as long as there is some sort of goodie bag.

* for a race that has road closures and 'frills'

Not much to add to that, Ray. 30 euro would be at the top end of pricing, with 20-25 euro being standard in my opinion.

I would add good social media - facebook, twitter etc. The best method of modern communication. It costs next to nothing, even sponsored advertisements do not have to break the bank.

Road closures can be tough to obtain depending on location. In saying that, good stewards and a strong RD come into their own here.

Accurate course and timing is the foundation of any race.

On a personal note, I never do a race for it's goodie bag, medal and the like. For me, it's having a well organised event that matters. I do think a race should 'give something back to the athletes' in the shape of a clear and transparent prize structure. Again, this does not have to break the bank and if smart, one can quite often get sponsored prizes from local businesses. Having a good prize structure usually enhances the field, which in turn makes the race more appealing for people chasing a PB or a good fast race. This helps cement the race into the racing calendar.

In my experience, a lot of people do races for very varying and differing reasons so race organisers should be cognisant of this and market their races appropriately. In a crowded market place like Ireland, a race now needs to standout - the biggest attractions being a well designed medal and/or race top.

achilles

Normally €20-25 but it's an athletics club I'll pay up to €30 with the following and if I hear positive reports from people who have raced it previously.

AAI registered and officially measured.

Flat course.

Closed roads, and good stewards.

Quality field.

Nice spread afterwards.

Parking and toilets.

I like to know well in advance the date of the race so I can plan and train correctly.

If its for a charity I can't but help be suspicious of how much of the profits actually go to the charity so I'd like to know in advance.

average_runner

Agree with the above but instead of a goody bag, i prefer a meeting point after the race where you provide cake and sandwiches, so runners can catch up with other runners!

pconn062

20-€25 max for me, wouldn't pay €30 for a 10k race (or any race for that matter).

I generally only do races where a running club is involved and the majority of the funds are going back into the sport/running club. I tend to avoid charity races/GAA races for this reason.

A decent, competitive field.

Good parking to make it easy to get to the race start with minimal stress.

A safe course with closed or at least, Garda managed roads.

A nice cup of coffee and something to eat after the race. This is mostly for social reasons to catch up with people and swap horror stories.

I don't care about medals, t-shirts, goodie bags, cups, hats or anything like that. Cut all that crap out and only charge me €15!

EC1000

Safe accurate course, start on time and good marshalling (both car parking and race route) are most important for me. Anything else is a bonus.

Itziger

pconn062 wrote: »

20-€25 max for me, wouldn't pay €30 for a 10k race (or any race for that matter).

I generally only do races where a running club is involved and the majority of the funds are going back into the sport/running club. I tend to avoid charity races/GAA races for this reason.

A decent, competitive field.

Good parking to make it easy to get to the race start with minimal stress.

A safe course with closed or at least, Garda managed roads.

A nice cup of coffee and something to eat after the race. This is mostly for social reasons to catch up with people and swap horror stories.

I don't care about medals, t-shirts, goodie bags, cups, hats or anything like that. Cut all that crap out and only charge me €15!

Hah??

pconn062

Itziger wrote: »

Hah??

??

I think €30 for a road race is too expensive, and most of the club races I do are usually €20 max. Keep in mind that these are short road races, usually 5k or 4 mile. I don't do half marathons and such.

RayCun

pconn062 wrote: »

20-€25 max for me, wouldn't pay €30 for a 10k race (or any race for that matter).

ah, there are some that would be worth it - though the good ones are usually cheaper! I just checked, and Dunshaughlin is only 20 quid including booking fee, Raheny and Terenure 5 miles 20 as well (even less with discount).

I wouldn't mind paying 30 quid for races of that quality.

pconn062

RayCun wrote: »

ah, there are some that would be worth it - though the good ones are usually cheaper! I just checked, and Dunshaughlin is only 20 quid including booking fee, Raheny and Terenure 5 miles 20 as well (even less with discount).

I wouldn't mind paying 30 quid for races of that quality.

I think that's part of what makes them great races though, they can be as well organised as they are and still only cost €20!

Most of the good local races to me (again these are 5k/4 mile races) are between €12-20. And these are all good, competitive club races. Maybe we are spoiled down here.

I can understand why a longer race or a charity race might be more but I prefer to keep my charitable donations and racing separate.

Claude Burgundy

Thanks for the feedback everyone, some really interesting points there.

I'd wonder who some said they would avoid chairty races ?

The AAI point is also interesting but i think that is true of runners that run under a club banner. I remember hearing of races that were short and some of the runners didn't mind, i thought if its a 5k it should be 5k it one of the most important details.

Djoucer

Charity races have a rep for being badly organised as main focus is to raise money.

Any criticism is then deflected with "sure it's for charity."

achilles

I've seen races advertised as a charity races with only a very small percentage of profits or else a token gesture going to the charity.

Keeks

achilles wrote: »

I've seen races advertised as a charity races with only a very small percentage of profits or else a token gesture going to the charity.

I've also seen races where 100% of the entry fee's are given to charity and anything extra is sponsored

El Caballo

Djoucer wrote: »

Charity races have a rep for being badly organised as main focus is to raise money.

Any criticism is then deflected with "sure it's for charity."

Isn't this the way with most charity events? When I go to a local charity soccer or boxing match, I don't expect to see pierluigi Collina refing it. In fact, I hope to see the most least likely soccer players or fighters ever go toe to toe. I'm not sure why athletics people take exception to genuine fundraisers. If I'm running a charity race, I'm there to support the cause through a donation while doing something I enjoy at the same time.

achilles

Keeks wrote: »

I've also seen races where 100% of the entry fee's are given to charity and anything extra is sponsored

Yeah that too, that's why I like charity races to state before hand on how much they are donating. I'll always try and support local charity races. But it's normally bigger races in fairness who take advantage of people's good will. I remember a certain race who even had their own short lived forum here

EC1000

El Caballo wrote: »

Isn't this the way with most charity events? When I go to a local charity soccer or boxing match, I don't expect to see pierluigi Collina refing it. In fact, I hope to see the most least likely soccer players or fighters ever go toe to toe. I'm not sure why athletics people take exception to genuine fundraisers. If I'm running a charity race, I'm there to support the cause through a donation while doing something I enjoy at the same time.

Whilst I agree that when entering a "charity" race you take your changes as to how well it will be organised, there's a distinct difference between (i) attending a charity match where the entertainment is actually watching the match, and (ii) paying to participate in an event.

In one event you are paying to be entertained and in the other you are paying to take part.

Apples and oranges.

pconn062

El Caballo wrote: »

Isn't this the way with most charity events? When I go to a local charity soccer or boxing match, I don't expect to see pierluigi Collina refing it. In fact, I hope to see the most least likely soccer players or fighters ever go toe to toe. I'm not sure why athletics people take exception to genuine fundraisers. If I'm running a charity race, I'm there to support the cause through a donation while doing something I enjoy at the same time.

I think it's the fact that road races are often a primary way for a club to fund raise. When charities/GAA clubs/tennis clubs/football clubs start getting in on the act and start organising races it can hurt the fundraising abilities of the athletics clubs. Running clubs don't organise charity GAA matches or football tournaments. And often these races are run without a permit and outside of AI rules which means they can and do clash with sanctioned road races. Of course you could say that this is the free market and clubs have to learn to compete, and that's partly true, but it's the clubs that will ultimately suffer from an overcrowded calendar.

El Caballo

EC1000 wrote: »

Whilst I agree that when entering a "charity" race you take your changes as to how well it will be organised, there's a distinct difference between (i) attending a charity match where the entertainment is actually watching the match, and (ii) paying to participate in an event.

In one event you are paying to be entertained and in the other you are paying to take part.

Apples and oranges.

Isn't a race entertainment? I'm saying that I do think people take these things too serious. Most charity races are the farthest things from competition you can get in athletics. I don't go to a charity race for the organisation, it's more to support the cause.

Claude Burgundy

achilles wrote: »

I've seen races advertised as a charity races with only a very small percentage of profits or else a token gesture going to the charity.

That is a major problem, i agree 100%. I've questioned it myself in the past.

Claude Burgundy

Keeks wrote: »

I've also seen races where 100% of the entry fee's are given to charity and anything extra is sponsored

That's the dream:(

RayCun

Claude Burgundy wrote: »

I'd wonder who some said they would avoid chairty races ?

The AAI point is also interesting but i think that is true of runners that run under a club banner. I remember hearing of races that were short and some of the runners didn't mind, i thought if its a 5k it should be 5k it one of the most important details.

A few reasons.

1. If a race is organised by a club then I know it is organised by runners, and that they will have a good sense of what is important - that all the things I listed above they would list too.
2. If it's organised by a club, the organisers will want to put on an event that reflects well on their club. They can't walk away from a crappy race the way a different organiser could.
3. People talk about what their entry fee goes on. If it's organised by a club, then the money goes on the race itself, and the sport as a whole.

Yes, a 5k being 5k is one of the most important things. Everyone ****s things up sometimes, but a club-run race is very motivated not to **** things up (see points 1 and 2)

dublin runner

pconn062 wrote: »

I think it's the fact that road races are often a primary way for a club to fund raise. When charities/GAA clubs/tennis clubs/football clubs start getting in on the act and start organising races it can hurt the fundraising abilities of the athletics clubs. Running clubs don't organise charity GAA matches or football tournaments. And often these races are run without a permit and outside of AI rules which means they can and do clash with sanctioned road races. Of course you could say that this is the free market and clubs have to learn to compete, and that's partly true, but it's the clubs that will ultimately suffer from an overcrowded calendar.

Clubs are too busy clashing with themselves to mind about clashing with non-athletics events.

The reference to non-permitted/non-athletics races is a complete non argument for me. If you can't compete, only yourself to blame.

Claude Burgundy

RayCun wrote: »

A few reasons.

1. If a race is organised by a club then I know it is organised by runners, and that they will have a good sense of what is important - that all the things I listed above they would list too.
2. If it's organised by a club, the organisers will want to put on an event that reflects well on their club. They can't walk away from a crappy race the way a different organiser could.
3. People talk about what their entry fee goes on. If it's organised by a club, then the money goes on the race itself, and the sport as a whole.

Yes, a 5k being 5k is one of the most important things. Everyone ****s things up sometimes, but a club-run race is very motivated not to **** things up (see points 1 and 2)

Great points and i appricaite the feedback.

As someone who has ran in and worked at club events i agree with yoo on them.

Up to now i thought it was just to be able to run in your club colours etc, nice to see other very valid reasons mentioned.

El Caballo

pconn062 wrote: »

I think it's the fact that road races are often a primary way for a club to fund raise. When charities/GAA clubs/tennis clubs/football clubs start getting in on the act and start organising races it can hurt the fundraising abilities of the athletics clubs. Running clubs don't organise charity GAA matches or football tournaments. And often these races are run without a permit and outside of AI rules which means they can and do clash with sanctioned road races. Of course you could say that this is the free market and clubs have to learn to compete, and that's partly true, but it's the clubs that will ultimately suffer from an overcrowded calendar.

I understand that and know the story but in reality, I don't think very many make any sizeable impact on athletics club fundraisers tbh as most of the charity races pull very few numbers anyway and the vast majority of people doing the charity races will never be seen on the line of a club race unless it's on their doorstep as most are just there to support the cause.

I think you have taken my point completely out of context anyway as I am referring to the seriousness of expectations rather than permit issues.

Testosterscone

El Caballo wrote: »

Isn't this the way with most charity events? When I go to a local charity soccer or boxing match, I don't expect to see pierluigi Collina refing it. In fact, I hope to see the most least likely soccer players or fighters ever go toe to toe. I'm not sure why athletics people take exception to genuine fundraisers. If I'm running a charity race, I'm there to support the cause through a donation while doing something I enjoy at the same time.

I think this is an issue, even some of the biggest races now have a charity element so the lines are blurred moreso than a charity football match.

Just looking back I did very few charity races, not intentionally but when I was looking at races this year that were well organised and ticked the boxes for me (price, competition, focus on the sport) I found majority of the best organised races to be those that aim to make racing and competition the focal point.

I have no problem with charities fund raising but personally I tend to donate separately so that the races I do are the races I want to support and the charities I want to support I will do so directly so that the overheads aren't eating into the donation.

For example I would prefer to do the likes of Dunshaughlin for 20e and donate 10e directly (and have done where possible) than most 30e charity races. Personal preference though

FWIW I think if looking to raise more funds for a particular charity a crowdfund type link is a good way of generating more money without driving up entry cost.

El Caballo

Testosterscone wrote: »

I think this is an issue, even some of the biggest races now have a charity element so the lines are blurred moreso than a charity football match.

Just looking back I did very few charity races, not intentionally but when I was looking at races this year that were well organised and ticked the boxes for me (price, competition, focus on the sport) I found majority of the best organised races to be those that aim to make racing and competition the focal point.

I have no problem with charities fund raising but personally I tend to donate separately so that the races I do are the races I want to support and the charities I want to support I will do so directly so that the overheads aren't eating into the donation.

For example I would prefer to do the likes of Dunshaughlin for 20e and donate 10e directly (and have done where possible) than most 30e charity races. Personal preference though

Yeah, I get you and personally, I tend to do very few as well. But what I'm saying is that we are looking at this through a serious approach to athletics and building seasons around specific races and competition and that's not what charity races are about. We look at it with blinkers on instead of the real motive behind charity races, to fundraise and promote a cause. It's not to offer a highly competitive field and fast times to serious runners although some charities have gone down the athletics route legitamitely.

pconn062

dublin runner wrote: »

Clubs are too busy clashing with themselves to mind about clashing with non-athletics events.

The reference to non-permitted/non-athletics races is a complete non argument for me. If you can't compete, only yourself to blame.

There are specific rules in place regarding club races with permits in terms of limitations on how close races can be geographically on the same day.

And thankfully, most of the good club races are able to compete and it's the flash in the pan, quick quid fund raisers races that die away quickly. (Not a reference to the OP, who sounds like have a good ideas for their event).

El Caballo wrote: »

I understand that and know the story but in reality, I don't think very many make any sizeable impact on athletics club fundraisers tbh as most of the charity races pull very few numbers anyway and the vast majority of people doing the charity races will never be seen on the line of a club race unless it's on their doorstep as most are just there to support the cause.

I think you have taken my point completely out of context anyway as I am referring to the seriousness of expectations rather than permit issues.

You're probably right, it was more of a general rant.

I think fundraiser races do have an effect on club races especially when they are held on the same day or the day before a club race. My owns club race a few years ago secured our date with a permit only to have another local fundraiser less than three miles away organise a race the day before ours. Two races in such a small location on the same weekend hit both races pretty badly.

Testosterscone

El Caballo wrote: »

Yeah, I get you and personally, I tend to do very few as well. But what I'm saying is that we are looking at this through a serious approach to athletics and building seasons around specific races and competition and that's not what charity races are about. We look at it with blinkers on instead of the real motive behind charity races, to fundraise for a cause. It's not to offer a highly competitive field and fast times to serious runners although some charities have gone down the athletics route legitamitely.

But many charity races try to be all encompassing. Offering prize money in a charity race or chip timing to try to attract particular types of athletes ultimately means that you can't really hide behind the charity element.

Its either a race or its an event.

FWIW 9 of the 21 races I have done this year were between 5e-15e all off which well organised races with (not one exceeding 30e of the 21)

Hannibal_Smith

achilles wrote: »

Yeah that too, that's why I like charity races to state before hand on how much they are donating. I'll always try and support local charity races. But it's normally bigger races in fairness who take advantage of people's good will. I remember a certain race who even had their own short lived forum here

What race had their own forum here?

Murph_D

Hannibal_Smith wrote: »

What race had their own forum here?

Virgin Media Night Run. It didn’t work out well.

Hannibal_Smith

Murph_D wrote: »

Virgin Media Night Run. It didn’t work out well.

Ah...clearly still an Achilles heel for some

walshb

20 euro sounds reasonable..

Good course layout. Not too difficult. Well signed and marshaled and punctual and maybe some refreshments afterwards. Oh, and chip timed..that’s enough for me.

I guess where it's on might be relevant. I only do charity races within an hours drive, South Kerry or West Cork. Wouldn't expect to pay over €20, expect dire parking, expect hills, little chance of a PB, don't need a medal or a teeshirt, chip timing is a bonus etc. But because they are more community efforts than racing events (and I have seen runs on the narrowest back roads on mountains in West Cork draw hundreds) the tea and sandwiches afterwards and the chance to catch up with others I may not have seen in months is a big part of it for me.

Cartman78

My 2 cents:

Things that don't matter:

- Goody bags, Medals, T-Shirts etc.
- Music blaring at the start/finish line


Things that do matter:
- Accurately measured course....nothing will kill the reputation of a race quicker than a short course imho
- Involvement of a local club...as others have mentioned it is probably key to have buy in from a local club as they will have the experience and expertise to assist in running an event.
- Sufficient on course marshaling and adequate signage for car parks, race HQ etc...nothing worse than driving around a town you don't know in a flap looking for where to register.
- Engagement with the local community
- Publication of results....if you can't do this then let people know; don't promise and not deliver
- If the race has water stations, then ensure that at least one adult is present to supervise...seen several examples where kids are left to run these and things go haywire as they act the maggot.
- Buns....lots of buns :cool: and a place to eat them in and catch up with other runners
- Social Media & photos....as others have said, a great way to keep in touch and keep people updated and informed. Photos are a nice to have rather than essential but I personally always enjoy perusing through race pics.

Anyway, that's all that springs to mind....€20 is probably the most I've paid for a 10K that would encompass most of the elements above

Birdsong

Plus one to every thing Cartman has posted. Charity races annoy me and I avoid too be honest. I donate separately to my chosen charities and support running club races.

harr

How much hassle is it to get roads closed?
Was a spectator today at gingerbread and a good few drivers ignoring stewards and some in fact giving stewards an ear full..all for the sake of waiting 5 minutes to let groups through.
Runners were made aware before hand that roads would be open..to be honest some of the impatient drivers were runners who had finished and were on way home...

Claude Burgundy

harr wrote: »

How much hassle is it to get roads closed?
Was a spectator today at gingerbread and a good few drivers ignoring stewards and some in fact giving stewards an ear full..all for the sake of waiting 5 minutes to let groups through.
Runners were made aware before hand that roads would be open..to be honest some of the impatient drivers were runners who had finished and were on way home...

Its all about money !

We are looking into rolling closures in 2018.

I was actaully abused and assaulted when i put my arm out to stop someone coming in the way of a car exiting the gate.

cullenswood

I wonder for next year could you have people run around the left hand side of the final roundabout (about 200m to the end) rather than the right hand side. This seemed to be causing a lot of confusion with a lot of runners nearly taking the wrong exit (ie turning left instead of straight on), plus they are running in to meet stray cars head on.
If they went to the left hand side of the roundabout this would be less of an issue, and might be easier for the marshals to direct?

Claude Burgundy

cullenswood wrote: »

I wonder for next year could you have people run around the left hand side of the final roundabout (about 200m to the end) rather than the right hand side. This seemed to be causing a lot of confusion with a lot of runners nearly taking the wrong exit (ie turning left instead of straight on), plus they are running in to meet stray cars head on.
If they went to the left hand side of the roundabout this would be less of an issue, and might be easier for the marshals to direct?

Thanks i'll pass that on to the course director, all feedback is welcome !

endacl

average_runner wrote: »

Agree with the above but instead of a goody bag, i prefer a meeting point after the race where you provide cake and sandwiches, so runners can catch up with other runners!

How far behind do you usually finish?!?

:pac:

RasTa

If public transport is an issue then start the race later. That Gingerbread started at 12 and the train got in at 12:04 from Heuston. Should have been moved to 12.30

Ultraman100

RasTa wrote: »

If public transport is an issue then start the race later. That Gingerbread started at 12 and the train got in at 12:04 from Heuston. Should have been moved to 12.30

4
would need a lot more than 26 minutes to get off train,outta train station,to registration,get registered,get ready,go to start..assuming train was on time..dont think transport was an issue as race was sold out