Ghosting pics on Saorview

KaneToad

I am being driven demented. Not sure if this is the correct forum, please move if needs be.

I have an LG TV that slowly started losing SaorView pictures. I get "ghosting" images on the screen. Often I can only get RTE 1 and not RTE 2. But then on another day RTE 2 will return (having done no tuning adjustments).

I suspect it is a TV hardware problem. The aerial feed from the wall is fine. (The same aerial serves several TVs in house, all others are ok). Did some googling and it would appear that LG TVs are susceptible to probs with their ANT IN circuit boards.

Soooo, I decided to get my hands on SaorView set top box and run my aerial through that and connect STB to TV via HDMI cable. But, when I do this, I can get RTE 1 no probs but still no RTE 2!!!! What gives ???

I know the STB box is fully tuned to the correct channels as it came from a TV in a neighbours house and was working fine there with all channels tuned in.

Any ideas ? Thanks!

Thurston?

The Saorview services are spread across 2 different UHF channels, so poor signal on 1 of them could explain your lack of RTE2. I wouldn't just assume that your 'aerial feed is fine'.

Don't know about the 'ghosting': by this you mean actual multiple images on the screen?

KaneToad

Sorry, "ghosting" is probably a very bad description, Pixelating, I guess, would be a more apt description.

The same aerial serves another TV in the house. This TV receives all Saorview channels with no issues. As was the case for all the TVs over the past 3 years. I just can't figure out why the sudden loss of Saorview channels on this specific LG TV.

I guess my next option will have to be to connect another TV to the aerial wall socket that is currently connecting to the malfunctioning LG TV and see what the state of play is there!

Thurston?

Yeah, it's poor signal, either localised to that TV point, or overall, & that point is just worse enough off to go over the 'digital cliff'.

Nothing to do with the TV, as you've already seen by trying the STB.

The Cush

KaneToad wrote: »

Sorry, "ghosting" is probably a very bad description, Pixelating, I guess, would be a more apt description.

pixelated/blocky picture indicates a low quality signal. Signal strength/quality is probably borderline at that TV point. Also TV tuners vary in how they handle a weaker signal.

How is the aerial feed split to the various TV points, basic splitter or distribution amplifier?

Weak signal could be down to aerial alignment, cable condition, condition of connections, number of TV point off the aerial.

KaneToad

The Cush wrote: »

pixelated/blocky picture indicates a low quality signal. Signal strength/quality is probably borderline at that TV point. Also TV tuners vary in how they handle a weaker signal.

How is the aerial feed split to the various TV points, basic splitter or distribution amplifier?

Weak signal could be down to aerial alignment, cable condition, condition of connections, number of TV point off the aerial.

OP here, with an update.

The aerial feed is split to 4 TV points. There is a distribution amplifier used also. This has worked fine to all TV's for the past few years. The pixelating prob is only a recent development.

This evening I brought the TV from one of the rooms where the aerial feed was fine - ie perfect SaorView signal on all channels - and brought this set into the room where I'm having the pixelating problem. I connected this set to the aerial feed in the problematic room. No problems. Perfect Saorview reception on all channels.

This suggests a problem with the TV set in the 'pixelating' room and that the aerial feed in that room is fine ?

However, previously when I connected a STB to the TV in the 'pixelating' room, via the aerial feed, I was also getting pixelated/intermittent SaorView. This would suggest a prob with the aerial feed ?!?

I can't reconcile the two issues! I would expect it to be one or the other!

Thurston?

Different tuners will cope differently with poor/borderline signals.

See if you can figure out if the problem is limited to a single TV point or, if things are poor overall. Check for things like damaged or loosened connectors, kinked cables, & maybe water in the cable feeding the amplifier, if the aerial is outside.

And if the aerial is outside, make sure it hasn't blown down or something.

KaneToad

The aerial is inside, in an attic. It's not very acessible - however the amplifier is not in the attic. I'm going to now go and remove all other feeds out of it and leave just the feed to the 'pixelated' room in place to see if it might be an amplification problem....

Just tried that, no joy...

Am now going to bring TV from 'pixelating' room into other room where existing TV has no Saorview issues.

I guess that will tell me whether or not it is the TV set that is the problem.

Watch this space!

KaneToad

Thurston? wrote: »

.

And if the aerial is outside, make sure it hasn't blown down or something.

I assume, if this were the case that the TV in the other room(s) wouldn't work either ? Although, I've just re-read your point about different tuners on different TV's.... am I right in understanding that this would mean that a badly aligned aerial would be ok for some TV sets but not for others ?

(I guess a mouse or something could possibly move the interior aerial ?)

The Cush

Having the aerial in the attic could be contributing to the weaker received signal, roof slates/tiles, block wall etc. attenuating the signal.

Would it be possible to bypass the amp and connect each TV point to the aerial directly for testing purposes and use the TV's in-built signal quality/strength meters to check the numbers, quality should be as close to 100% as possible.

ED E

When you test other devices are you pulling out and unplugging other parts of your setup? Something close by blasting out RF could be throwing your tests.

dxhound2005

It should be possible to find out the signal strength on each frequency. Do you have a menu like the one on this video? Different receivers give different readings but it is possible that a 55% signal will be perfect whereas a 50% signal will have picture breakup. A better aerial setup is usually the solution.

KaneToad

Wow, thanks for all the replies, most helpful.

The Cush wrote: »

Having the aerial in the attic could be contributing to the weaker received signal, roof slates/tiles, block wall etc. attenuating the signal.

Would it be possible to bypass the amp and connect each TV point to the aerial directly for testing purposes and use the TV's in-built signal quality/strength meters to check the numbers, quality should be as close to 100% as possible.

Not currently possible. The aerial is in an attic crawl space, rather than a 'normal' attic space. It is quite an ordeal to get to! The direct feed comes through the ceiling but only about 3" before entering the wall mounted amp unit. The feeds for each room then return back through ceiling to the wall plates in the required rooms.

However your suggestion about using the built in signal checker was spot on. When I connected the 'pixelated' TV point to the 'bad' LG TV, I noticed that the SaorView signal seems to come in two 'frequencies(?)'. The first group had 2RN2 and contained RTE1, RTE Jnr and Be3. The signal strength for this was 50% and the signal quality was 87%. The other group 2RN1 had RTE2, TV3,TG4,3e and had strength of 54% but quality was fluctuating consistently from low 60%'s to high 80%'s.

When I connected a 'good' TV to the pixelated TV point, the signal test was similar - ie one of the transmitter groups had fluctuating quality. This TV also happens to be an LG model TV but is a newer model. Which could explain why it wasn't as susceptible to pixelating pictures.

ED E wrote: »

When you test other devices are you pulling out and unplugging other parts of your setup? Something close by blasting out RF could be throwing your tests.

Yes, most definitely. I figured out along the way that pulling out HDMI leads for the kid's PS4 and when powering off Sat Receiver box that there appeared to be an affect on the terrestrial channels.

dxhound2005 wrote: »

It should be possible to find out the signal strength on each frequency. Do you have a menu like the one on this video? Different receivers give different readings but it is possible that a 55% signal will be perfect whereas a 50% signal will have picture breakup. A better aerial setup is usually the solution.

It looks like an aerial investigation expedition into the attic crawl space will have to be undertaken! I'll have to wait for an assistant to be available to check the TV and shout up instructions to me. Poor Mrs KaneToad will have to bite her lip as I go ballistic at her unclear instructions, while lying in a dark cramped space, with insulation in every orifice, and trying to adjust an aerial

The Cush

KaneToad wrote: »

However your suggestion about using the built in signal checker was spot on. When I connected the 'pixelated' TV point to the 'bad' LG TV, I noticed that the SaorView signal seems to come in two 'frequencies(?)'. The first group had 2RN2 and contained RTE1, RTE Jnr and Be3. The signal strength for this was 50% and the signal quality was 87%. The other group 2RN1 had RTE2, TV3,TG4,3e and had strength of 54% but quality was fluctuating consistently from low 60%'s to high 80%'s.

When I connected a 'good' TV to the pixelated TV point, the signal test was similar - ie one of the transmitter groups had fluctuating quality. This TV also happens to be an LG model TV but is a newer model. Which could explain why it wasn't as susceptible to pixelating pictures.


It looks like an aerial investigation expedition into the attic crawl space will have to be undertaken! I'll have to wait for an assistant to be available to check the TV and shout up instructions to me. Poor Mrs KaneToad will have to bite her lip as I go ballistic at her unclear instructions, while lying in a dark cramped space, with insulation in every orifice, and trying to adjust an aerial

Adjusting the aerial within that attic space may not make a significant difference to the signal strength/quality, it's still in that confined space. Any possibility of moving the aerial outside, to a gable end wall maybe?

Thurston?

KaneToad wrote: »

it looks like an aerial investigation expedition into the attic crawl space will have to be undertaken!

You didn't mention checking the signal at any of the other TV points?

exaisle

Thurston? wrote: »

You didn't mention checking the signal at any of the other TV points?

Good point....you should check the signal at all of the other points to eliminate the possibility that there's a problem with one just one point which might be caused by something other than the antenna..
Is the problematic point further from the distribution amp than the others? (I'd be tempted to just swap the cables around at the amp.)

KaneToad

The Cush wrote: »

Any possibility of moving the aerial outside, to a gable end wall maybe?

Might try to get the aerial to an external wall. However my house is a bungalow with a hipped roof so I don't really have a suitable gable wall.

Aesthetically, I'd prefer it hidden inside too. Given that it worked perfectly inside for the last few years, I would be hopeful that it could continue to do so again...if I can get to the bottom of the current problem!

KaneToad

Thurston? wrote: »

You didn't mention checking the signal at any of the other TV points?

The signal at the other points is fine. Even when bringing in what I thought was the 'problem' TV and connecting that up.

KaneToad

exaisle wrote: »

Good point....you should check the signal at all of the other points to eliminate the possibility that there's a problem with one just one point which might be caused by something other than the antenna..
Is the problematic point further from the distribution amp than the others? (I'd be tempted to just swap the cables around at the amp.)

The problematic point is further from the amp..but only marginally. I tried swapping cables in the amp, as well as removing all cables except feed from attic and output to problem point. No joy there either.

I'm wondering if it might be worth my while getting a new amp? Do those things deteriorate??

Thurston?

KaneToad wrote: »

The problematic point is further from the amp..but only marginally. I tried swapping cables in the amp, as well as removing all cables except feed from attic and output to problem point. No joy there either ...

Are you happy that the cable to the problem point, & its connectors (plugs) have no defects?

Is there a wallplate at the TV?

Maybe post some pics of the connections at the amp & TV if you're not sure you can judge their state.

The Cush

KaneToad wrote: »

The problematic point is further from the amp..but only marginally. I tried swapping cables in the amp, as well as removing all cables except feed from attic and output to problem point. No joy there either.

I'm wondering if it might be worth my while getting a new amp? Do those things deteriorate??

If you swapped cables at the amp and the problem remained then replacing might not resolve it. Maybe something simple as remaking the connections at either end could resolve the issue.

Is the cable from the amp to the bad TV point a single run with breaks/joints? Is it possible the run was damaged at any time?

KaneToad

Thurston? wrote: »

Are you happy that the cable to the problem point, & its connectors (plugs) have no defects?

Is there a wallplate at the TV?

Maybe post some pics of the connections at the amp & TV if you're not sure you can judge their state.

Am happy enough with connectors ( I re-did them to be on the safe side.) Amp pic is attached. The ugliest connector, output no. 1, isn't the one to the 'bad' wall plate...

There is a wall plate.

KaneToad

The Cush wrote: »

Is the cable from the amp to the bad TV point a single run with breaks/joints? Is it possible the run was damaged at any time?

It is a single run, to a wall plate, as far as I can tell. Its not likely that it was damaged - at least not lately. Although, I guess it is possible that a mouse was nibbling a cable?? (I've no sign of mice in the house tho')

exaisle

Try unplugging all of the cables at the distribution amp except the problematic one (and the input, obviously). Does the problem point improve?

KaneToad

exaisle wrote: »

Try unplugging all of the cables at the distribution amp except the problematic one (and the input, obviously). Does the problem point improve?

I had tried that before. It didn't solve it or show signs of improvement.

Thurston?

KaneToad wrote: »

Am happy enough with connectors ( I re-did them to be on the safe side.) ...

There is a wall plate.

I assume the flylead from wallplate to TV was checked too then? Is it the ready-made type? Some of those are pretty poor quality.

exaisle wrote: »

Try unplugging all of the cables at the distribution amp except the problematic one (and the input, obviously). Does the problem point improve?

What was doing this going to prove or disprove?

KaneToad

Hmm...perfect RTE2 pic now...

However, you can clearly see the difference in signal quality between the two different UHF groups...

The Cush

KaneToad wrote: »

Hmm...perfect RTE2 pic now...

However, you can clearly see the difference in signal quality between the two different UHF groups...

Signal strength is not good for both frequencies there, how stable is the 99% signal quality on Mux2, does it fluctuate?

What are the signal readings at the other TV points?

KaneToad

The Cush wrote: »

Signal strength is not good for both frequencies there, how stable is the 99% signal quality on Mux2, does it fluctuate?

What are the signal readings at the other TV points?

OP here...

OK, plot thickens. The signal was tested at two other points.

Other point 1: 2RN2, strength mid 50, quality 99 no fluctuations. Reception good. 2RN1, strength mid 40, quality 70 but fluctuations. Reception good though.

Other point 2: similar to above.

Decided then to tackle the aerial in the attic crawl space...

Spent ages crawling down to dismantle it to allow me to carry it out. Got it out, reassembled it. Connected direct to problem TV point television - to rule out prob with television itself.Decided that a slightly different orientation brought much better signal. See attached pics. Delighted with myself.

Disassembled aerial. Returned it to new location in crawl space. Thought I'd solved the prob.

But I hadn't. The bad TV point is now fine. But other point 1 and other point 2 have now lost 2RN1 channels!!! 🀔

The Cush

KaneToad wrote: »

Disassembled aerial. Returned it to new location in crawl space. Thought I'd solved the prob.

But I hadn't. The bad TV point is now fine. But other point 1 and other point 2 have now lost 2RN1 channels!!! ��

Not sure if this has been asked before, what type of aerial is it, does it look like any of these - http://www.freetv.ie/saorview/tv-aerials/uhf/

Signal strength is still not great, the attic space is likely causing the reduced signal, any foil backed insulation up there or metal pipes or the like. Moving the aerial outside would probably restore strength/quality if there isn't a cabling or connection issue.

KaneToad

The Cush wrote: »

Not sure if this has been asked before, what type of aerial is it, does it look like any of these - http://www.freetv.ie/saorview/tv-aerials/uhf/

Signal strength is still not great, the attic space is likely causing the reduced signal, any foil backed insulation up there or metal pipes or the like. Moving the aerial outside would probably restore strength/quality if there isn't a cabling or connection issue.

Attached pic is the aerial that most closely resembles it.

No foil insulation or metal pipework in the attic area. All pipes/tanks are in a different overhead attic space at the opposite end of the house.

To be honest I don't understand why the position of the aerial (before moving) resulted in 1 out of 3 points not working. After moving , 2 out of 3 points not working - the original 1 that wasn't working now becoming the one that is working.

Does that mean that there is a sweet spot for a direction for the aerial to point that will satisfy all 3 points? I would have assumed a 100% quality signal to one point would result in 100% quality signal to the other 2 points... Given that all points are served by same aerial through same amplification.

I won't be going into the saorview installation business any time soon !!

The Cush

KaneToad wrote: »

Does that mean that there is a sweet spot for a direction for the aerial to point that will satisfy all 3 points?

There could be but in that confined space without a signal meter to hand it may be too difficult to find.

Thurston?

KaneToad wrote: »

I would have assumed a 100% quality signal to one point would result in 100% quality signal to the other 2 points... Given that all points are served by same aerial through same amplification.

Are the other TVs also tuned to chs. 30 & 33?

KaneToad

Thurston? wrote: »

Are the other TVs also tuned to chs. 30 & 33?

They are now! I hadn't noticed before.

Problem appears to be solved. All points now receiving 60 ish strength and 99 ish quality. I can watch Winning Streak & Nationwide in full HD now. 😋

Thurston?

KaneToad wrote: »

Thurston? wrote: »

Are the other TVs also tuned to chs. 30 & 33?

They are now! I hadn't noticed before.

Problem appears to be solved. All points now receiving 60 ish strength and 99 ish quality. I can watch Winning Streak & Nationwide in full HD now. ��

Well, if they weren't before (say they were on 54 & 58 for Kippure, if you're in Dublin, with 30 & 33 being Three Rock), then things probably could have been fixed by tuning the problem TV to 50 & 58, without doing anything else.

More than likely none of the signals you can pick up with the current installation are great, & you'll have more trouble down the line.

greasepalm

i get the same issues the odd time and same setup as he has indoor aerial in attic and junction box externally powered and rte 1 hd would pixelate like mad and rte 2 hd perfect,i did nothing and it fixed itself,so outside issue.