UK to penalise diesel drivers

carsfan2

https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/new-cars/tax-penalties-diesel-cars-be-unveiled-autumn-budget-statement

Anybody think we will follow suit here?
It really does appear to me the writing is on the wall for the private car owner driving a diesel now.

alchemist33

I certainly won't be getting one next time. And I don't think the resale value of my current one will amount to much in a couple of years either

ednwireland

Does it increase tax
Do bears....

Course they will

tayto lover

Keep the Greens out or we'll be crucified.

SEPT 23 1989

People were sold a pup by the 'experts'

I wonder what the next one will be?

ednwireland

SEPT 23 1989 wrote: »

People were sold a pup by the 'experts'

I wonder what the next one will be?

lithium tax on batteries

gctest50

tayto lover wrote: »

Keep the Greens out or we'll be crucified.

It's not the clueless Greens for once, tis science :

£10 T-charge ( toxicity charge ) for high polluting vehicles starts in London today


Khan cited medical research, which claims that more than 10,000 people die annually in London due to polluted air.

Putney High Street in West London breached the EU's annual limit just one week into 2016.

https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/industry/%C2%A310-t-charge-high-polluting-vehicles-starts-london-today

Obvious Otter

They can’t put anymore levies or taxes on motoring in Ireland particularly for the Commerical business.

I’d say the next target will be the lower emission taxes once the Insurance industry runs out of accounting estimates to play around with.

It would be good to see the Government offer better incentives to purchase an electric vehicle but unfortunately you can’t upset the oil groups Ireland either.

The ESB will eventually subsidise the cost of having to install all these chargers into the cost of electricity too.

Leonard Hofstadter

Obvious Otter wrote: »

They can’t put anymore levies or taxes on motoring in Ireland particularly for the Commerical business.

I’d say the next target will be the lower emission taxes once the Insurance industry runs out of accounting estimates to play around with.

It would be good to see the Government offer better incentives to purchase an electric vehicle but unfortunately you can’t upset the oil groups Ireland either.

The ESB will eventually subsidise the cost of having to install all these chargers into the cost of electricity too.

If everyone starts driving electric cars then that's a huge hole in Government finances.

And with it being 'zero emissions' they'll no longer be able to play the card of making people travel by public transport or drive slower to save the planet, so that will mean more congestion in cities (cause let's face it, cars are an awful lot more convenient for getting around no matter how bad the traffic is) although it should mean higher speed limits on motorways (which is good) not that we'll get that of course because we all know a mere 0.1 km/h over the limit means you're a menace to society.

Governments really should think these things through.

At the moment everyone seems to have decided that electric cars are the solution, but I remember when diesel was deemed to be the solution and we've seen how that's turned out.

Who knows what unintended consequence there will be in time? The tax is an obvious one and there's no way that's going to last if electric cars are adopted en masse. Road pricing is an obvious solution but personally I don't want the Government knowing my every move.

bazz26

They will do nothing in the short term as it would be political suicide for any of the big parties to start crucifying voters with a pending general election in the next 12 to 24 months.

And EV owners won't be left untouched either. The Government take X amount in revenue from the motorist every year. That will need to be maintained so as demand for ICE starts to demise and EVs become the new popular choice you can be sure the Government will get their pound of flesh from those owners too. Car ownership has always been expensive in this country and will continue to be so no matter what technology is used to propel them.

kona

They have been crucifying petrol engines for years. I wouldnt go thinking as a diesel owner they wont what a serious tax on them. Id be getting rid of one now and id be seriously looking at electric for a new car. In 20 years time there will be no petrol or diesel.

Ultimate Seduction

kona wrote: »

They have been crucifying petrol engines for years. I wouldnt go thinking as a diesel owner they wont what a serious tax on them. Id be getting rid of one now and id be seriously looking at electric for a new car. In 20 years time there will be no petrol or diesel.

That was said 20 years ago too!

elperello

Interesting points.

How would you go about future proofing a new purchase for say 6-8 years?

Tide certainly seems to be going out for petrol and diesel.

Electric, uncertain future tax regime and with battery development likely to be obsolete in a few years.

Hybrid, maybe the safer choice?

drunkmonkey

In 20 years it might be time to buy an electric car, cost, time to charge, charging locations and mpg/miles per watt all have to change drastically. We’re no where near ready for it.

What I can see happening in the short term is that diesel will rise in price to match petrol, can’t see the government lowering petrol to match diesel price.
Vat will be reclaimable on petrol for business the same way diesel is currently.
Car tax bands will start to reflect the war against diesel probably starting with small changes next year but phased in over 3/5 years so people can budget accordingly.

If I was buying a new Car now I’d think long and hard before I’d buy a diesel. Electric wouldn’t be on the radar as we’re not there yet with technology, infrastructure or price.

Tesla is heading for bankruptcy if it misses it sales targets by such a wide berth again as it did the last time.

Skatedude

The problem is electric cars will never work for so many people. They seem to assume that everyone has a driveway to charge it in, Charge stations are way to few and far between to cater for any increase in electric car usage.

kona

Ultimate Seduction wrote: »

That was said 20 years ago too!

Sure has but had manufacturers announced they are stopping r and d for the internal combustion engine?

Donal55

Another good reason to go across the water in 2018 and buy a car.

bazz26

kona wrote: »

Sure has but had manufacturers announced they are stopping r and d for the internal combustion engine?

Fashionable or lofty claims are easily made by large corporations as well as politicians at a time when good PR is necessary. Nobody knows what the political and economical landscape will be like when these claims come to mature.

Remember they told us that the likes of the magnetic tape, the compact disc, etc would make the book redundant many times.

turbocab

gctest50 wrote: »

It's not the clueless Greens for once, tis science :

wrong they new about NOx for 30 years or more ,they only cared about CO2 emmissions

Frank_1969

SEPT 23 1989 wrote: »

People were sold a pup by the 'experts'

I wonder what the next one will be?

I would be inclined to say that it's the plug in electric car.
I can't see battery technology advancing so much in the near future to make these either practial or cost effective.
The hydrogen cell motor car is really the best option for the future of motoring.
The Honda clarity being a good example of this.

Tuco88

They wont shift diesel to handy out Ireland imo.

Cannon_fodder

alchemist33 wrote: »

I certainly won't be getting one next time. And I don't think the resale value of my current one will amount to much in a couple of years either

Same here, done and dusted. Traded in mine for a 181 petrol

Frank_1969

Skatedude wrote: »

The problem is electric cars will never work for so many people. They seem to assume that everyone has a driveway to charge it in, Charge stations are way to few and far between to cater for any increase in electric car usage.

To add to this,the emissions from the amount of fossil fuel needed to generate the electricy will offset any so called benefits in lowering the emissions from the cars themselves.Never mind the fact the generating stations are barely able to cope as it is.
It's completely unviable in the long term.

K.Flyer

Frank_1969 wrote: »

To add to this,the emissions from the amount of fossil fuel needed to generate the electricy will offset any so called benefits in lowering the emissions from the cars themselves.Never mind the fact the generating stations are barely able to cope as it is.
It's completely unviable in the long term.

This is the elephant in the room that seems to be missed by so many.

ION08

Cannon_fodder wrote: »

Same here, done and dusted. Traded in mine for a 181 petrol

How much money did you save?

listermint

drunkmonkey wrote: »

In 20 years it might be time to buy an electric car, cost, time to charge, charging locations and mpg/miles per watt all have to change drastically. We’re no where near ready for it.

What I can see happening in the short term is that diesel will rise in price to match petrol, can’t see the government lowering petrol to match diesel price.
Vat will be reclaimable on petrol for business the same way diesel is currently.
Car tax bands will start to reflect the war against diesel probably starting with small changes next year but phased in over 3/5 years so people can budget accordingly.

If I was buying a new Car now I’d think long and hard before I’d buy a diesel. Electric wouldn’t be on the radar as we’re not there yet with technology, infrastructure or price.

Tesla is heading for bankruptcy if it misses it sales targets by such a wide berth again as it did the last time.

20 years time.

LOL.



The horse has already bolted, it's clear that you don't have a breeze about the technology if you think twenty years time is the date.

The Chinese will have this sown up in 5 and the rest of the world will follow suit.

EPAndlee

Haven't Toyota had a car with a hydrogen fuel cell since 2015?

Electric cars aren't the answer for most people commuting to work in this country. We have two electric cars are work with the rubbish range they have I'd struggle to commute too and from work. People will be very reluctant to change unless the government make it worth they're while. It's too handy to just hop into your petrol or diesel and off you go.

listermint

EPAndlee wrote: »

Haven't Toyota had a car with a hydrogen fuel cell since 2015?

Electric cars aren't the answer for most people commuting to work in this country. We have two electric cars are work with the rubbish range they have I'd struggle to commute too and from work. People will be very reluctant to change unless the government make it worth they're while. It's too handy to just hop into your petrol or diesel and off you go.

What cars are they, what do you really know about them. What's your range.

CiniO

listermint wrote: »

20 years time.

LOL.



The horse has already bolted, it's clear that you don't have a breeze about the technology if you think twenty years time is the date.

The Chinese will have this sown up in 5 and the rest of the world will follow suit.

Currently we (missus and me) have 2 cars. One is diesel, one is petrol.

In fact currently our petrol car could be amended for electric no bother. It never does more than 100km a day anyway. Every night it's a home on a driveway so it could be charged. Annual mileage around 10k km.
Only reason we don't changed it yet for electric, is because electric cars start at around €10k secondhand, while that petrol car we have is worth maybe a €1000 and is way more comfy than any of the electrics on offer.

However the way we use diesel car could not be amended to electric car.
And until technology develops to give around 700km range and 10 minute fast charging time, then we won't change it.
And it's a fair point it might be 20 years from now.

This car just often enough does 700km daily runs where there would be no time for charging.
Also occasionally it does long trips of aroun 2000 - 3000km through Continent, and I honestly can't imagine doing it in electric car with current technology.

There's still long way to go to replace all diesel and petrol cars with electric.

elperello

Heard Michael Gove on the Andrew Marr show today saying total UK ban on petrol & diesel 2040.

How many governments between now and then?!

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/jul/25/britain-to-ban-sale-of-all-diesel-and-petrol-cars-and-vans-from-2040

Ubbquittious

elperello wrote: »

Interesting points.

How would you go about future proofing a new purchase for say 6-8 years?

Tide certainly seems to be going out for petrol and diesel.

Electric, uncertain future tax regime and with battery development likely to be obsolete in a few years.

Hybrid, maybe the safer choice?

The first port of call would be to try and escape the daily commuting hummadum-drum for a start. This will reduce your exposure to the government's continuous poking and prodding for tax revenue significantly.

Next you'll have to change to an obscure enough fuel that will escape the mainstream politician's eye. Methane, biodiesel, compressed air. Preferably something that can be generated easily and doesn't have a distribution system that's kept under wraps by the government. Electric has the advantage here but soon enough they'll come up with a bit of DRM software for your car to prevent it from running on untaxed green electricity

The best job is to switch to an entirely different mode of transport - motor paraglider, boat, even a scooter. Try to stick to something obscure enough that it's a long way off from creating a big enough problem to drum the legislators to action. Legislators are lazy and don't bother with your mode of transport unless its creating enough tabloid headlines or has a significant tax revenue potential.

ION08

Are people actually trading in their Diesels for fear of what might be around the corner?

If that's your only reason to change you'd want to get your head examined.

I think we have at least another 2 years before our government will penalise diesels in any way and if you are switching cars based on this alone, the cost to change now will hurt your pocket a lot more than any depreciation that's to come further down the line because someone at the pub said "nobody will want diesels"

Reminds me of the fools back in 08 buying brand new Diesels so they can "save money" on the co2 based Tax system.

grogi

elperello wrote: »

Heard Michael Gove on the Andrew Marr show today saying total UK ban on petrol & diesel 2040.

How many governments between now and then?!

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/jul/25/britain-to-ban-sale-of-all-diesel-and-petrol-cars-and-vans-from-2040

Ban for NEW petrol/diesels. Those already on the road will stay.

Ubbquittious

grogi wrote: »

Ban for NEW petrol/diesels. Those already on the road will stay.

There will probably be exceptions I cant imagine them forcing RR, Aston Martin, Caterham and the rest of them to go electric-only or hang up their clogs.

A lot of water will go under the bridge between now and 2040 and so many things could lead to that being shelved

grogi

Ubbquittious wrote: »

There will probably be exceptions I cant imagine them forcing RR, Aston Martin, Caterham and the rest of them to go electric-only or hang up their clogs.

A lot of water will go under the bridge between now and 2040 and so many things could lead to that being shelved

Aston Martin are already dedicated to electrifying their offering in near future - by 2025. RR hinted the same... Caterham is to niche for anybody to care...